Why isn't abortion murder?

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by neoholographic

 

See, once again, you are missing the point. It is understood that you feel abortion is murder. By all means, stick to that view. Dont have an abortion.

But the minute you force that view on everyone else, you are taking away their ability to do what you have done-that is, to choose what is the right view for them.

Why would you support restricting freedom?

Take that argument and apply it to rape and first-degree murder. Write that up so we can all understand it and then maybe we'll agree.

Oh, but it already has been written up. The laws, just as with rape and murder, are on the books. Theyve been challenged, and theyve been upheld.

But SOME people still cant let it go. SOME people still wish to force their view instead of allowing personal freedom.

Originally posted by TrueMessiah
Who in the world is "pushing" that? Seriously? That's flat out retarded.

Google 'after birth abortion'. Add the word 'ethicist' in to it as it is usually only those moral arbiters of society that seem to be able to find some moral / legal justification to post birth murder.

All you have to do is redefine the definition of murder. That is the easiest way to justify all kinds of murder.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


It has nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with murder.

No, you shouldn't have the freedom to murder.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Oh, but it already has been written up. The laws, just as with rape and murder, are on the books. Theyve been challenged, and theyve been upheld.

But SOME people still cant let it go. SOME people still wish to force their view instead of allowing personal freedom.

edit on 15-1-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

My point was that we have laws that restrict people from rape and murder - we call it a crime. You say that murdering an unborn baby is personal freedom and personal freedom shouldn't be restricted. That our view that its murder shouldn't be enforced on others as it violates your liberty.

Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

It has nothing to do with freedom and everything to do with murder.

No, you shouldn't have the freedom to murder.

IN YOUR OPINION. Once again, no one can force you to have one. YOU are trying to force YOUR view, which has been judged incorrect all the way up to the Supreme Court, but you are still trying to force it.

Originally posted by ararisq

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
Oh, but it already has been written up. The laws, just as with rape and murder, are on the books. Theyve been challenged, and theyve been upheld.

But SOME people still cant let it go. SOME people still wish to force their view instead of allowing personal freedom.

edit on 15-1-2013 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)

My point was that we have laws that restrict people from rape and murder - we call it a crime. You say that murdering an unborn baby is personal freedom and personal freedom shouldn't be restricted. That our view that its murder shouldn't be enforced on others as it violates your liberty.

So many incorrect statements there....

As I said to the other poster-it is just that, your view. Everything, all the way up to the supreme court, says your wrong. Its been challenged. Its still stands.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


Nope, abortion is murder and it's my opinion that Roe should be overturned. The Supreme Court isn't a panacea of perfect. They have gotten it wrong before.

So yes, Roe is law and until it's overturned abortion is legal but it's still murder.

Fetuses dream!

www.aip.org...

That alone should make it count as murder.

Also WTF are they dreaming about????

Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Nope, abortion is murder and it's my opinion that Roe should be overturned. The Supreme Court isn't a panacea of perfect. They have gotten it wrong before.

So yes, Roe is law and until it's overturned abortion is legal but it's still murder.

In your opinion. You keep forgetting to add that. IN YOUR OPINION. Thats all it is. And i respect your freedom to have it. Its sad that you dont have the same respect for other people.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


I said it's my opinion that Roe should be overturned not that abortion is murder.

It isn't murder because it's big business. All part of population control and nothing to do with the "right to choose". It's also just another excuse for "humans" not to be RESPONSIBLE for their actions. We can also make the same case for the homosexual agenda.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by neoholographic

 

See, once again, you are missing the point. It is understood that you feel abortion is murder. By all means, stick to that view. Dont have an abortion.

But the minute you force that view on everyone else, you are taking away their ability to do what you have done-that is, to choose what is the right view for them.

Why would you support restricting freedom?

This is something I've never understood. How can it be murder to one person and not murder to another? It either is or it isn't. When a pro-life person is fighting against abortion they are not trying to force their opinion on anyone. They're trying to get society to acknowledge what they believe is a fact.

BTW, I hate the idea of abortion, but I realize that for the government, it's necessary for population control, and it will always be legal. I don't believe they care at all about a woman's right to choose. I guess it's also easier for them, because it would be a pain in the neck to have pregnant women filling up to courts to decide which ones actually need an abortion.

Originally posted by neoholographic
reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

I said it's my opinion that Roe should be overturned not that abortion is murder.

Exactly. You neglect to recognize that it is only your OPINION that abortion is murder. Again, that's all it is. But I digress. Its obvious that you arent asking a question, like your title suggests, but rather pushing your OPINION that abortion is murder.

Have fun with that. I hope you enjoy the freedom of being able to make that CHOICE.

Originally posted by Ireminisce

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
reply to post by neoholographic

 

See, once again, you are missing the point. It is understood that you feel abortion is murder. By all means, stick to that view. Dont have an abortion.

But the minute you force that view on everyone else, you are taking away their ability to do what you have done-that is, to choose what is the right view for them.

Why would you support restricting freedom?

This is something I've never understood. How can it be murder to one person and not murder to another? It either is or it isn't. When a pro-life person is fighting against abortion they are not trying to force their opinion on anyone. They're trying to get society to acknowledge what they believe is a fact.

Exactly!

reply to post by Ireminisce


It is some peoples opinion that it is murder. The FACT is that the Supreme Court,and many many other courts, have ruled it is not, meaning, legally, it is not.
But some people still want to force their opinion.

Is that more clear?

Well scientifically speaking at 8 weeks the fetus has it's own heart beat, independent measurable brain waves, formed spinal cord, moves all limbs, has all digits and finger prints.

So prior to that stage if someone says its not "human" I could agree, but after 8 weeks it fits the very definition and has all characteristics of a human. And I understand the whole "it's my body my choice" response, if the fetus has it's own heart-beat it's just not your body any longer there is someone else now as well. That person may be INSIDE you but that doesn't negate his/her existence.

But this will always be debated and anyone on either side will not change their minds. It's almost pointless, almost.

Originally posted by PassiveObserver
Fetuses dream!

www.aip.org...

That alone should make it count as murder.

Also WTF are they dreaming about????

That article is about a fetus at 7 months. Abortions, at least here in the US, aren't done at that stage unless there is a serious problem and the life of the mother is at risk.

reply to post by captaintyinknots


It's not an opinion. Abortion is murder. What's the legal definition of murder?

The definition of murder has evolved over several centuries. Under most modern statutes in the United States, murder comes in four varieties: (1) intentional murder; (2) a killing that resulted from the intent to do serious bodily injury; (3) a killing that resulted from a depraved heart or extreme recklessness; and (4) murder committed by an Accomplice during the commission of, attempt of, or flight from certain felonies.

This isn't an opinion but a fact.

When you INTENTIONALLY cut off the process of life whether it's at 30 years of age or 2 months after conception it's murder.

reply to post by neoholographic

murder n. the killing of a human being by a sane person, with intent, malice aforethought (prior intention to kill the particular victim or anyone who gets in the way) and with no legal excuse or authority. In those clear circumstances, this is first degree murder. By statute, many states consider a killing in which there is torture, movement of the person before the killing (kidnapping) or the death of a police officer or prison guard, or it was as an incident to another crime (as during a hold-up or rape), to be first degree murder, with or without premeditation and with malice presumed. Second degree murder is such a killing without premeditation, as in the heat of passion or in a sudden quarrel or fight. Malice in second degree murder may be implied from a death due to the reckless lack of concern for the life of others (such as firing a gun into a crowd or bashing someone with any deadly weapon). Depending on the circumstances and state laws, murder in the first or second degree may be chargeable to a person who did not actually kill, but was involved in a crime with a partner who actually did the killing or someone died as the result of the crime. Example: In a liquor store stick-up in which the clerk shoots back at the hold-up man and kills a bystander, the armed robber can be convicted of at least second degree murder. A charge of murder requires that the victim must die within a year of the attack. Death of an unborn child who is "quick" (fetus is moving) can be murder, provided there was premeditation, malice and no legal authority. Thus, abortion is not murder under the law. Example: Jack Violent shoots his pregnant girlfriend, killing the fetus. Manslaughter, both voluntary and involuntary, lacks the element of malice aforethought.

dictionary.law.com...

The legal definition disagrees with your OPINION.

reply to post by windword


Right, Someone brought up the post birth abortion a few posts up though.

And that's just sick.