I stand corrected, Jesus SPOKE aramaic....however, Jesus was from the line of King David. His mother was a descendant of King David, and St. Joseph was also from the line of David.

hmm...I can't remeber which of the 12 tribes of Isreal David was from off hand.

I agree with Gazrock, that Freemasonry didn't exist till way after Jesus.

Masons often cite that their order was founded at the building of King Solomon's Temple, however, I'd like to see the minutes of the meetings of a lodge before the 1700's. Or a membership role from before then to prove this.

The only indication of what Jesus looked like was that when the temple guards went to arrest him, they had to ask which one of them was Jesus...

That indicates that he looked pretty much like everyone else in his region.

Oh,... and he had to be at least average-looking. After all, the little children did come to him, not run away from him...

What does skin color have do to with anything? Did he say "Behold the color of my skin for it is important for salvation"?

Also, what does it have to do with Freemasonry?

The "feminine Jesus" with the long brown hair and beard is a concept that arose in the 1600's. Before that, he was darker haired and shorter haired, too.)

The common image of Jesus that we see today is actually an image of King James, is it not?

Originally posted by chief_counsellor
I stand corrected, Jesus SPOKE aramaic....however, Jesus was from the line of King David. His mother was a descendant of King David, and St. Joseph was also from the line of David.

hmm...I can't remeber which of the 12 tribes of Isreal David was from off hand.

King David was of the house of Judah. Jesus' mother's mother was of the house of Levi, and her father was of the house of Judah. It is interesting to note that most if not all of the kings and queens of Europe are descended from the house of Judah as well. And what color are most of the European people? This is part of the reason I believe that Jesus was caucasian.


[edit on 10/28/04 by The Axeman]

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

After all, what makes a man a mason?

His Obligation. Isn't that the standard answer?

From the forensic/genetic viewpoint, the concept of race is more of a political that a biological category. Take the English, for instance. You can be "English" and be a Welsh redhead, or a dusky shortish person from cornwall, you can have classic Saxon wavy hair and thick beard, or you could have kinky "Anglofro" hair from along the scottish border. Or you could be of the house of hannover, and have the Austrian hapsburgs for second cousins, as does queen Elizabeth II, who is "ethnically" almost completely German (as if that meant anything, either.)

Take Poland. Depending on the time period, your polish ancesters could be what we would in modern times call French (frank), German (Teutonic), Slavic (Polish), Estonian, or Even Swedish.

You get my point. So how much does it mean to call someone a Jew?

*******************

As for Aramaic, we DON'T know what language Jesus spoke. The 4 Gospel accounts of him are all written in Greek, and Jesus makes jokes about Peter's name in Greek, not Hebrew/Aramaic. I'm working on my aramiac, incedentally. It is so close to Biblical Hebrew that I'm sure the Romans couldn't tell the difference. Neither could Luke, for that matter. If I remember right, he says that Akeldama means "field of blood" in Hebrew, when actually the phrase is aramaic!

Originally posted by Byrd

Although there are some modern Jews who are Black, and there are sects in Ethiopia, these are fairly new on the scene (and again, tended to intermarry within their faith.)

Sorry to pester you, Byrd, but in Acts 8:26 ff, the disciple Philip is directed to make contact with an official of the court of the Ethiopian Queen, Candace. The official is riding in his chariot, and reading the book of Isaiah. Admittedly, he is having trouble understanding the prophecies of Isaiah, but then, he is able to converse with a Galilean. (I suspect they both spoke Greek.) The Jewish tradition is that Sheba is Ethiopia, and the Queen of Sheba had a connection going back as far as solomon, a thousand years.

Certainly, the new testament gives ethiopians a prominent place in the story of the spread of Christianity, because they were among the first converts.

Additionally, I would point out that Ethiopic is a Semitic language, Having more in common with Hebrew and Arabic than with either Egyptian or the language families of the Upper Nile.

Finally, Josephus, the only historian from Jesus' time period, describes him as of average height, with red hair and a forked beard (the traditional style at the time.) Josephus said that the man Jesus' was not particularly unusual looking, except for his penetrating gaze.

Genetically, Most modern Israelis are Sephardic Jews from Morroco, India, and the middle east, rather than the one quarter who are actually from European stock. They ALL show genetic affinities with the Non-Kurdish minorities of the upper Tigris (just like the Bible says about Abraham. . . .)

Most Muslim countries today have sizable Jewish minorities, even now. Iraq is, I believe ~10% Christian and ~~3-5% Jewish??? About the same population of Jews per capita as the USA.

Jesus says "salvation is of the Jews" in John 4:22.

I think he was Jewish.


The defense rests its case, your honors.

Originally posted by The Axeman
If the isrealites were not a "race" then how would you describe them? As a nation? It seems (and I could be wrong, please correct me if so) that there are actual references to "the Isrealite race" in the bible.

They're a culture or a nationality. Calling them a race is like saying there's an "American race."

Originally posted by dr_strangecraft

Sorry to pester you, Byrd, but in Acts 8:26 ff, the disciple Philip is directed to make contact with an official of the court of the Ethiopian Queen, Candace. The official is riding in his chariot, and reading the book of Isaiah. Admittedly, he is having trouble understanding the prophecies of Isaiah, but then, he is able to converse with a Galilean. (I suspect they both spoke Greek.) The Jewish tradition is that Sheba is Ethiopia, and the Queen of Sheba had a connection going back as far as solomon, a thousand years.

I do remember that, actually, about Sheba being Ethiopian and the Solomonic connection (and stand corrected, thanks!) However, as I referenced (badly!!) she took the tradition back to Ethiopia and did not stay there and her children didn't marry any of the people there in the Middle East.

Finally, Josephus, the only historian from Jesus' time period, describes him as of average height, with red hair and a forked beard (the traditional style at the time.) Josephus said that the man Jesus' was not particularly unusual looking, except for his penetrating gaze.

Reference? I don't remember that.

In any case, that sounds odd because the elements (red hair and forked beard) sound rather like a later fabrication. Red hair was considered unlucky (sign of being cursed or being a witch) in later times (so it may be an old belief) and I don't know that anyone back then wore a forked beard.

But, I'm willing to entertain some other evidence.