Theories About Death

Originally posted by k1k1to

Originally posted by SpearMint
Theory 1. Often people don't want to believe this because they think it's boring, but I think it's that simple, because I think life and conciousness is just chemical reactions and electrical signals. That's what I will believe until it's proven to be wrong, because that's what appears to be true.

edit on 15-1-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

so you are telling me that our brain is the only organ in existence that has become self aware of its own existence?...

or

is there something else "observing" us i.e our soul or spirit ?

why isnt our heart self aware of its own existence?...why cant the heart or spleen or kidney think about itself?

Every organ is self-aware of its own function, other wise the molecular structure wouldn't have formed. The human brain's frontal lobe is unique with its ability.

Originally posted by toktaylor
Where were we before we were born? As Theory 1 would suggest, we never existed (at least there is no evidence to support this). As it was in the beginning so shall it be in the end...I hope i am wrong....

Genetically you were part of your mother's and father's DNA in a long string of ancestors (long before they fused together to form the blue print for your proteins). And then nurture kicks in ...

reply to post by AllIsOne


Consciousness, in itself, is all in the brain. I thought that was an established fact? I can't see any more to it than that. Our environment and reality/existence, on the other hand can be argued conceptually with quantum theory, in which all forms of energy (i.e. kinetic, potential vibrational, etc) play a key role within time and space.

Edit: All of that verbosity just to basically say, "I agree with you."

Originally posted by 1Agnostic1
First, the word 'death' shouldn't even exist. It implies 'nothingness' to be a state of existence which is utterly ridiculous. It gives a reality to 'norhing'. As far as we KNOW, there is indeed nothing.

This is almost contradictory... "death"...implies "nothingness"...giving reality to "nothing...and - "there is indeed nothing...
When claiming that "something" (in this case - the word 'death') should not exist - one might want to give some credentials, so everyone reading such a statement is able to adjudge that you are qualified to "know".
I don't "know" that "the word 'death'" should not exist -- Nor do I know that it should exist. But - you saying so, without giving me some volume of proof, will probably only incite argument if my belief/s are significantly influenced by acceptance in the legitimacy of "the word (& concept) of 'death'"...

(On a side note - I find your opening remark somewhat inspiring.)

What once was a simple semantic problem has become a metaphysical one.
We started by saying he/she/it is 'dead' to express the fact that he/she/it isn't alive anymore. We created a concept out of convenience but from there it went from bad to worse: it was the begining of the nonsense.
We started to create a state of 'being dead' (death) and gave it life.

Now - how would you know this?
Were you there?
Are you God? (If you are, could I have your email address, 'cause Christmas was kinda lean this year... )

One should be better off asking himself "why do I wish there's something beyond physical existence?"
If answered honestly, this question should teach you that it is indeed all wishful thinking, fear of ceasing to exist, delusion and narcissism.

What about - fear of continuing to exist?
The question you say will "teach me the answer" has a lot more honest answers than you appear ready to consider.

Your mind/consciousness has no energy of its own per se. It is simply an abstract concept to describe mental existence (brain activity). It has no physical reality...

Once again - how do you know this? Do you have proof?
Why so adamant?

...Why else than because it appears to comfort you as it satisfies you desires (and alleviate your fears) do you NEED TO BELIEVE (without proof, not even logical -as opposed to empirical- ones in 'something else'?

And once more - presuming to know that the answers you count legitimate, are the only answers an honest, logical mind would conclude.
Nonetheless - See you joined recently... Good luck to you.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I would think that Number 3 is a bit over the top and unlike the others you post. I also believe you have missed a possibility as if we all exist in a Multiversal System...there would exist Infinite Versions of ourselves that are all connected by the inter exchange of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms and thus we never really cease to exist.

The idea of your Number 3 is based upon stories and ideas written by ancient Man to give the Christian Faithful a reason to stay in line as supposedly only 144,000 will be taken up in the stories Rapture.

I find this very funny especially when confronted by a Jehovah Witness as they believe that only people that are members of this Religion will be taken up.

I ask them...So how many Members do you now have? They say...Proudly...Over 6 Million!

I say...so...since only 144,000 of you can go...does that mean you will draw straws? LOL!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by darktouch
Reincarnation seems the most "logical" to me

Actually, the most logical would be the "oblivion" theory -- there is no real evidence that we are anything other than self-aware animals, ruled by chemicals and instincts, so it takes belief (aka: a leap in logic) to see things otherwise.

Yep!

As for reincarnation, there are a lot of problems with it -- where do "new souls" come from? As the population increases, either new souls are being made, or most people are soulless.

There might be more planes of existence than just earth, milky way and cosmos. The "supply" might be endless.

How are people supposed to progress if they have no accumulated memory? How are you supposed to learn from past life experiences if almost no one remembers them?

You ARE your history ...

Why does such an insignificant number of the population remember past lives, and why are a disparate proportion of those lives notable (remembering being a prince or hero, as opposed to the peasants and serfs who made up the vast, vast majority of humankind over the millennia?)

It's in the karma to remember. Also, some folks are just fakin' it :-)

If there is such a thing as karma, who administers it,

Who administers the rain, or sunsets? Certain properties cause certain effects ...

and what's the point?

What is the point of Beethoven's 9th symphony? You have to experience it to know

Why do people who live in a culture that believes in reincarnation have past life memories that perfectly mirror those beliefs, even when they are in opposition with another culture whose beliefs are completely different, yet also supported by claims of past life memories?

People tend to believe what they WANT to believe, not what is true.

reply to post by insightout


I believe you are a bit confused.

Potential Kinetic Energy or Kinetic Energy itself exist only within and by action and reaction of Matter.

Space/Time is simply the Universal Geometry or Dimentionality.

Space/Time Geometry of which Gravity is an example...may cause an object of Matter to Fall towards the One Dimensional Space/Time Expression that is a Gravity Well...but Kinetic Energy and it's transphere as well as the existence of Potential Kinetic Energy are exclusive to an object of Matter.

Space/Time Geometry such as Gravity can effect not only Matter but Energy as well as a Black Hole which is the Ultimate Expression of One Dimensionality or Singularity will effect Light or Photons as it makes Light travel along the Space/Time Warpeture or Curve and if close enough will capture Light within the Singularity.

Since Light or Photons are a Quantum Particle/Wave Form and do not have Particles that obtain Mass as the Protons and Neutrons that exist within an Atomic Nucleus...Photons will not behave in the manner that Matter will that has transphere Kinetic Energy to another amount of Matter as they strike.

So Space/Time may be the construct that allows for Movement and Distance inherent to both Particles of Mass or constructs of Matter as well as Quantum Particle/Wave Forms as are Photons...but Space/Time can only allow a build of Potential Kinetic Energy by way of Gravitational Effect and cannot be a mechanizm for Kinetic Energy transpher.

Split Infinity

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Ahh, gotcha. Thanks for that, I appreciate it even more because you've taken the time out to explain it thoroughly without any snarky comments, which is hard for others (and me) to do on these forums. You're right, I did get confused. That's what I get for only reading two books (Elegant Universe and Fabric of the Cosmos) on this subject.

reply to post by vethumanbeing


I understand what you are saying. You need to look deeper.



No offense, but this is something Yogi Babashi would have told me when I was 13 after he gave me my mantra. Any other help very appreciated I now admit myself as a neophyte.



No offense taken, I don't expect much from a neophyte. Thanks for informing me.

reply to post by SplitInfinity


Master's, or PhD level?

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I tend to think along the line that everything is connected and something can not cease to exist. I think your energy is absorbed by the universe intact and becomes a part of the whole again. It's like taking a cup of water from a full bath tub and suspending it over the tub with a very small leak in the cup. Eventually all the water would be returned to the tub. The brain is a tool which our Soul uses to experience life and the quality of that life is directly reflective of the kind of energy you are made of. There are negative people and positive people, without one you can't have the other, all must balance oor it would collapse.

Originally posted by PurpleVortex

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by PurpleVortex

 

Do you dream? I hope so. Well, wouldn't you say there is awareness outside of your body? Ever heard of lucid dreaming? Out of body experience? Lack of knowledge and experience dictate peoples beliefs so i don't blame you. But....you are in for a big surprise my friend.

You are comparing death to sleep? One needs to be alive to sleep, dream and have out of body experiences. Awareness is an epiphenomenon of a living sensual organism. The prerequisite of a living organism is to be alive. But lack of knowledge and experience dictate peoples beliefs so i don't blame you.

Well, how do you explain NDE? Ever had a NDE? I assume not. Clinically dead for 10 minutes? Cause I have. I was much more aware than when I was alive. Like I said lack of experience sir...Have a NDE and come back (hopefully) and maybe we can continue this conversation.

The lack of oxygen will do crazy things to those neurons ... Just sayin'.

The multiverse is a pretty big place. In fact -- I suspect it is full of other multiverses.

I also suspect that every option listed above is "true" for someone somewhere, and there are probably lots of other ways life and death intersect as well.

But what do I know? I'm just playing through.

Originally posted by darktouch
reply to post by adjensen

 

Karma doesn't imply that on your "next life" you will be treated like you treated others in another life,

So how does it work? Please explain.

Originally posted by SubSea
Reincarnation.

Anyone who does not believe in it, explain to the world why the human body loses a very small amount of weight upon death. Explain the boy who recognized his ship-mates from WWII, and other reincarnation stories and no just saying "they do not stand up to investigation" does not cut it.

Reincarnation is the most prevalent religious belief, although it may not be related to a God at all.

As some have said, there is an energy which cannot be destroyed, we refer to it as a soul. It may be our body just plugging into a "collective consciousness".

What ever it is, there is something that leaves the human body at death.

Please show me those weight loss studies. Please no links from the 19th century.

I have had my own theory that to me (from my own personal logic) makes sense. It does (in one form or another) incorporates some (if not all) the theories you have listed.

Let me see if I can be brief and understood.

We all know that matter, everything we know to be "real" or physical is made of energy.

Energy never ceases to exist. It only speeds up and slows down. But the amount of energy in the known universe is the same amount that exists today as it always has.

When we speak of "time" we are talking about universal time. It really cannot be measured in Earth years (I only say this to clarify my theory when I speak of "time")

The energy that created us, this life, this exact moment, all of it before, and all of it to come; it was just a matter of "time" that it "came together" as it did and has.

I think of it like... if you were to have literally infinite time (and patience) and had say... marbles with numbers painted on them from 1 to 1000 (or even 10000000000000) and dropped them on the ground, "eventually" they would land in perfect order.

Being said, if my theory is correct, we will do this again, and again, and again. Perhaps with subtle or even major differences, but none-the-less, it will happen again.

Not to mention that if the perfection of the way our "marbles" fell this time around fit in a way that it worked so well, perhaps its the only way existence can happen?

It was probably a bad analogy, but hopefully I got the general idea across.

Peace.

reply to post by insightout


You have a pretty avatar so your easy to forgive. LOL!

Split Infinity

reply to post by AllIsOne


Play in an Internationally Touring Rock Band....and drink beer.




Oh...and have a 174 IQ. LOL!

Split Infinity

we are life support systems for a higher energy being that lives within, like a cocoon, and when our flesh ceases to function in its host capacity, our being is freed to return home to the universe and create new life and continue the cycle as what was originally done for us through our guest host and all the generations that followed and will continue to perpetuate the gift...no spacecraft required

reply to post by SPECULUM


I like the idea that we all end up as food!

Split Infinity