UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..

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posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by D377MC
 


Let me remind you of the title of the thread




UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..,


The OP may well have stated the latest US debate as the reason for this thread, but this thread is clearly set out to discuss why the OP thinks the UK has made a mistake with its gun laws. There are plenty of US gun control threads to discuss US gun control. This thread is clearly about wether the UK stance is right or wrong.




posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by D377MC
 


Let me remind you of the title of the thread




UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..,


The OP may well have stated the latest US debate as the reason for this thread, but this thread is clearly set out to discuss why the OP thinks the UK has made a mistake with its gun laws. There are plenty of US gun control threads to discuss US gun control. This thread is clearly about whether the UK stance is right or wrong.


I'd say I usually ignore the sensationalist titles. Content-wise, I see no reason this thread should be limited to UK residents.

If gun-control works for you, enjoy it. Simply kindly avoid running round calling us American Gun-Nuts (your words not mine) because we happen to be aware that it is safer for us to be armed here in the US.

Much safer.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by D377MC
 


It was much safer for the residents of Sandy Hook that guns were so easily available wasn't it?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 10:39 AM
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Here's the thing: I like the UK. I like visiting there. I like the history and the culture. I was thoroughly impressed by the men and women of the British armed forces I worked with overseas.

Without the UK, there would be no US and I don't mean the colonizations of North America, but without the enlightenment philosophers and English common law, we would not have our Constitution because those are some of the influences used to make it. Papers like the Magna Carta were direct ancestors of our Declaration of Independence.

Without Adam Smith and the principles of a free market, we would not have been a financial success.

In these debates, I disagree with the gun control laws in the UK and the results thereafter, but I bear no ill will to the people of that fine nation.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 10:48 AM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I like the USA much the same but disagree with your gun laws. It is just a cultural dirrence and the reason we squabble so much about it is that it is unusual to find any significant cultural difference between our people. This just happens to be one of a very few differences.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 11:26 AM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I like the USA much the same but disagree with your gun laws. It is just a cultural dirrence and the reason we squabble so much about it is that it is unusual to find any significant cultural difference between our people. This just happens to be one of a very few differences.


Considering that the UK and the US together saved the world twice in the 20th Century(3 times if you count the cold war) we are natural allies and friends. I like a good discussion, but too often these discussions degenerate into name calling: "gun nut" "pacifist pansy" "imperialist wanker" "queen's subject" and other such nonsense, that I just felt the need to make my affection for my brothers across the pond clear. Such language is neither polite nor productive.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 01:21 PM
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many of the contributions from US and othe non UK gun advocates in this thread largely come across as attempts for self validation of your own laws (again, 100's of threads on this) rather than any concern or genuine interest with regards what goes on in the UK - the situation in the states, belgium or elsewhere is largely irrelevant



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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Originally posted by michael1983l
Just goes to show what a waste of time the star and flag system actually is on this website. This clown here that represents probably less than 5% of the UK population gets 88 flags by a bunch of American Gun nuts because it vindicates their views on Guns in America. Despite the fact that what the OP says is factually inaccurate and does not represent the majority view of the UK. How sad.


Stop using ad hominems, presumptions and generalizations.

I can assure you that at least 40% of Europeans (residents of EU controlled countries) support the right to armed self-defense, and that this number would be far higher if the government-run media and "schools" stopped aggressively brainwashing the public.

@ Skalla: Belgium is in the same pitiful state as the UK when it comes to crime and the violation of innate rights by a governing body.
edit on 18-1-2013 by ultimatelizardman because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 01:47 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I like the USA much the same but disagree with your gun laws. It is just a cultural dirrence and the reason we squabble so much about it is that it is unusual to find any significant cultural difference between our people. This just happens to be one of a very few differences.


Considering that the UK and the US together saved the world twice in the 20th Century(3 times if you count the cold war) we are natural allies and friends. I like a good discussion, but too often these discussions degenerate into name calling: "gun nut" "pacifist pansy" "imperialist wanker" "queen's subject" and other such nonsense, that I just felt the need to make my affection for my brothers across the pond clear. Such language is neither polite nor productive.


That sir is one of the best posts in not only this thread, but many on ATS combined. Let's be honest, this is probably the one big cultural differences between America and the Uk. But it is what it is. What works for one is great, doesn't mean it would work for the other. As long as we all agree to disagree, why fight about it?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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Originally posted by something wicked
As long as we all agree to disagree, why fight about it?



Because innocent people are being put in danger by having their right to self defense, together with their dignity and their sovereignty, stripped from them by gun control laws.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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Originally posted by ultimatelizardman

Originally posted by something wicked
As long as we all agree to disagree, why fight about it?



Because innocent people are being put in danger by having their right to self defense, together with their dignity and their sovereignty, stripped from them by gun control laws.


So...... in total, regardless of the method, roughly less than 600 people were killed in the UK last year in what was classed as murder or manslaughter. A very small percentage of those involved a gun.

You are based in Belgium, not the UK, with respect, why do you think you are qualified to make that statement? Nobody has their sovereignty stripped away, no one has their right to self defence removed. Can you just get over the fact that in the UK most people have no interest in owning a gun and those that do primarily use them for sport or hunting?

If you want to make a thread about Belgium, go for it, but why do you think you speak for this country? I admit, I personally do wonder why in America people would feel the need for an AK47, and I don't mind saying that, but that's just me



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by something wicked
So...... in total, regardless of the method, roughly less than 600 people were killed in the UK last year in what was classed as murder or manslaughter. A very small percentage of those involved a gun.


Sorry, but that is a blatant lie based on doctored statistics.


Deny ignorance.



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:34 PM
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It was so much better when we all had guns, I remember the days back then, such fun.




posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by ultimatelizardman

Originally posted by something wicked
So...... in total, regardless of the method, roughly less than 600 people were killed in the UK last year in what was classed as murder or manslaughter. A very small percentage of those involved a gun.


Sorry, but that is a blatant lie based on doctored statistics.


Deny ignorance.


No it's not, you just dont choose to believe it. Can you show what you think is a different figure or perhaps it's now getting to a point where you should put up or shut up?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 04:58 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


deny ignorance with presumption based on mass media, as stated in one of his first posts in the thread.

deny ignorance seems a mantra of defence for assumed knowledge, and it's a shameless play to a crowd, hate to stoop to that but in the end it seems to be all he has left. that and his supreme care for our self defence. i'm glad he's there to stand up for my dignity, sovereignty, family and loved ones etc etc yawn zzzzz



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by NavyDoc

Originally posted by michael1983l
reply to post by NavyDoc
 


I like the USA much the same but disagree with your gun laws. It is just a cultural dirrence and the reason we squabble so much about it is that it is unusual to find any significant cultural difference between our people. This just happens to be one of a very few differences.


Considering that the UK and the US together saved the world twice in the 20th Century(3 times if you count the cold war) we are natural allies and friends. I like a good discussion, but too often these discussions degenerate into name calling: "gun nut" "pacifist pansy" "imperialist wanker" "queen's subject" and other such nonsense, that I just felt the need to make my affection for my brothers across the pond clear. Such language is neither polite nor productive.


The US and Britain saved absolutely no-one.

I suggest you take the time to go to www.loc.gov where you will find three sets of judicial archives concerning a case brought by the US government after the war against a group of companies and banks in London and New York who were found responsible, under the Trading with the Enemy Act of supplying Hitler with all the gold, rubber, and metals necessary to build his war machine, and maintain it throughout the war right up until the end of 1942.

What that means is that London and New York 'funded' Hitler from start to finish, they hardly deserve thanking for clearing up the mess they were apparently directly responsible for creating do they?

On an interesting side-note, after the court case one of the directors of this 'conglomerate' was removed from his position after being found guilty. Of course he never went to jail. In fact, in 1952 (or 53) if my memory serves me correctly, he was elected to the US senate.

His name was Prescott Bush.

Like I said, you really need to break out of this 'we are the good guys we saved the world' mind state. Its factually wrong for starters.





edit on 18-1-2013 by D377MC because: spelling and form



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:48 PM
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reply to post by something wicked
 





Can you just get over the fact that in the UK most people have no interest in owning a gun and those that do primarily use them for sport or hunting?


I believe that to be true.

It would be truer still if you added the words 'as of yet'.

You simply never know when you will need a gun. When people in Argentine were asked what they would have stockpiled beforehand had they known the Country was about to collapse and go bankrupt, it doesn't take a genius to figure out they all wished they'd had guns.

Right up there with toilet paper on their wish-lists.

Most of us hope we will never have to use our guns other than for target shooting, but we aren't going to bury our heads in the sand whilst others deprive us of them either, because we are wise enough to see the writing on the walls and have carefully considered the examples of history.

Ever asked yourselves why the UK's little experiment doesn't pull any weight with us?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 05:54 PM
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Originally posted by something wicked
No it's not, you just dont choose to believe it. Can you show what you think is a different figure or perhaps it's now getting to a point where you should put up or shut up?



you want me to back up my statements?

libertarianhome.co.uk... ome-us-states/

www.dailymail.co.uk... ticle-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

www.cato.org...



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 07:08 PM
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Originally posted by D377MC
reply to post by something wicked
 





Can you just get over the fact that in the UK most people have no interest in owning a gun and those that do primarily use them for sport or hunting?


I believe that to be true.

It would be truer still if you added the words 'as of yet'.

You simply never know when you will need a gun. When people in Argentine were asked what they would have stockpiled beforehand had they known the Country was about to collapse and go bankrupt, it doesn't take a genius to figure out they all wished they'd had guns.

Right up there with toilet paper on their wish-lists.

Most of us hope we will never have to use our guns other than for target shooting, but we aren't going to bury our heads in the sand whilst others deprive us of them either, because we are wise enough to see the writing on the walls and have carefully considered the examples of history.

Ever asked yourselves why the UK's little experiment doesn't pull any weight with us?


I really don't think your comment has any weight whatsoever. Why do you think that all of a sudden our government may become tyrannical? How often has America overthrown its government by use of arms rather than ballot box? Why are you suggesting what is an institution in America, with a mutli billion dollar market in arms selling, strong lobbying voices whispering how votes/jobs would be lost even if gun control took out some types of weapons, not all, would or should work in the the UK?

Why do you think that if everyone had a gun they would all have perfect shooting/target skills and only the bad guys would ever be shot? I can tell you why, but this isn't a thread about the American gun culture is it?



posted on Jan, 18 2013 @ 07:10 PM
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Originally posted by ultimatelizardman

Originally posted by something wicked
No it's not, you just dont choose to believe it. Can you show what you think is a different figure or perhaps it's now getting to a point where you should put up or shut up?



you want me to back up my statements?

libertarianhome.co.uk... ome-us-states/

www.dailymail.co.uk... ticle-1196941/The-violent-country-Europe-Britain-worse-South-Africa-U-S.html

www.cato.org...


And.... which of those say that more than 600 people died as a result of murder or manslaughter in the UK last year?

ETA: Your last link is a shameless one to a US gun porn site, why the fudge are you bothering with this? What point are you trying to make?
edit on 18-1-2013 by something wicked because: Because I hadn't fully fed the troll





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