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UK.. We Messed Up Letting The Government Take Our Guns..

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posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:08 AM
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Originally posted by misscurious
NO we didn't .. why do we need guns here?

Actually re reading your post I've never heard so Much nonsense.. so instead of demonstrating peacefully we take to the streets with guns? I'm glad we don't have more people like you livng here...
edit on 15-1-2013 by misscurious because: (no reason given)


I could not have agreed with your more!!! I don't want my daughter growing up around guns!. no way! im happy the way it is! peaceful protests all the way!




posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:13 AM
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Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by Darkphoenix77

In regards to the OP, it took real courage to voice your opinion, knowing it was likely to be an unpopular one, I salute you.



I'm pretty sure that on a predominantly American site that was never going to be the case, as evinced by the stars and flags he's got for it (which the cynical might think was his intent).

And courage isn't a word that can ever be used to describe typing something on an internet forum.


Not everyone posts for stars and flags, that is quite an assumption to make....and why would it not be courage? It really is no different than any other type of communication except the alias. He is still putting himself out there for the criticism



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:22 AM
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In true punch & Judy style


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooo We Neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


I think the UK is a much much safer place without guns on or streets only an imbecile could think anything else



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:28 AM
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Originally posted by Darkphoenix77
In regards to the OP, it took real courage to voice your opinion, knowing it was likely to be an unpopular one, I salute you.



it does not take "real courage" to type an opinion on a forum, or we are all spartacus. either that or you are living in fear, which seems to explain the attitude of some gun advocates, not to mention the crying and mewling often seen by the shedload when a brit comments on a US gun thread.
edit on 16-1-2013 by skalla because: cant spell "the"



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:37 AM
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reply to post by EvanB
 


Have you considered the fact that he was in possession of his gun illegally? Thought not.

Personally I think this case was a travesty of justice, but his imprisonment wasn't for nothing. Someone legally in possession of a gun in similar cirumstances fortunately would not get the atrocious treatment he did.

I know of many British people in possession of shotguns. I seem to have to repeat over and over that guns have not been banned in the UK. Certain types of guns have been restricted.

We have a RIGHT to own a shotgun. Provided you aren't a criminal or someone with mental health problems or have some other valid reason to be refused, you will be given a shotgun licence if you apply. It's a right not a privilege.

Please dude stop spewing guff on these boards.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:40 AM
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reply to post by misscurious
 


Demonstrating peacefully? Funny. You know, sometimes peaceful demonstration is pointless. Sometimes you may just need the threat of violence to cause change. Our governments do it all the time. It is called deterrence. If I can hurt you for your behavior you will change the behavior.
Believing that "peaceful demonstration" will get things accomplished every single time just because you really really want it is a load if hippy garbage.Our governments have already shown, repeatedly, that they couldn't give one tiny toss about our peaceful protest. Now, when things get really bad and people start showing up with their pitchforks and torches the officials might just start paying attention because they fear for their slimy skins.
I'm all for solving a problem peacefully, but there comes a time when peace isn't the answer. War is.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:42 AM
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Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by superman2012
 


Lets take a real life example..

Tony Martin was woken up in the middle of the night by two burglers who invaded his rural home.. He shot them with a shotgun.. One of them died.. The other lived to claim compensation for his injuries..

Tony Martin got put in jail for manslaughter... For protecting his home and possesions..

Do you not see something wrong in that?


....... and follow that through please. The reason he was jailed is that evidence showed he shot the boy as he was escaping, not in defence of his life. He was also later released from jail.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:45 AM
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Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by KingIcarus
 


As a soldier myself it wont be me I assure you..

But bought and paid for private military organisations (mercenaries) who are taking over the shortfall to current military cuts... Organisations with whom are international thus have no ties to the country or people thus will most definitely pop a cap your ass... Did you vote for that???

Hmmmn



Evan, this isn't like you. You know that the private organisations are to perform logistical work, not to serve as troops. That was explained in black and white at the time and couldn't have been put more clearly - it was for private firms to carry out tasks on an as and when basis rather than to have people employed full time. Sorry, that was all covered so long ago I don't have a current link, but I remember when it was discussed on ATS and covered in a lot of depth.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by Hawkmoon1972
reply to post by misscurious
 


Demonstrating peacefully? Funny. You know, sometimes peaceful demonstration is pointless. Sometimes you may just need the threat of violence to cause change. Our governments do it all the time. It is called deterrence. If I can hurt you for your behavior you will change the behavior.
Believing that "peaceful demonstration" will get things accomplished every single time just because you really really want it is a load if hippy garbage.Our governments have already shown, repeatedly, that they couldn't give one tiny toss about our peaceful protest. Now, when things get really bad and people start showing up with their pitchforks and torches the officials might just start paying attention because they fear for their slimy skins.
I'm all for solving a problem peacefully, but there comes a time when peace isn't the answer. War is.


So you think it is desirable that officials make decisions rooted in fear of a mob rather than electoral mandate, argument, peaceful representation etc ?



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 06:59 AM
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Originally posted by LostCompletely

Originally posted by Suspiria
Evan, I loves ya..But you are either drunk again or trying to get off with some American bird on here..


Off topic, why no deletion? I love this forum. Nice gigantic avatar of "your" face too, first replier. Bet that helps a lot.

If this is deleted for off topic, can we be consistent with the rules?


Think you've got me mixed up with somebody else matey. The name Lostcompletely suits you.
Besides, it's not Offtopic. In fact I changed my mind and started to wonder if someone had strapped our Evan to a chair and tried brain washing him Clockwork Orange stylee.

Anyway, bravo to a smashing and very British thread. You know when you see words like nonce and berk it feels like home.

edit on 16-1-2013 by Suspiria because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by TritonTaranis
In true punch & Judy style


Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh Noooooooooooo We Neverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


I think the UK is a much much safer place without guns on or streets only an imbecile could think anything else


Except that you are not. Before you ahd gun laws, your murder rate was 0.6/100K and now is 1.2/100K -- a doubling. People are more likely to be murderd in the UK now than before. It seems odd to me that so many people seem to be okay with murder and violence as long as a gun is not involved.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:06 AM
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reply to post by something wicked
 


Logistics.. lol.. How long before mission creep?

Its a slippery sloap my friend..



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:08 AM
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Originally posted by merkins
reply to post by EvanB
 


Have you considered the fact that he was in possession of his gun illegally? Thought not.

Personally I think this case was a travesty of justice, but his imprisonment wasn't for nothing. Someone legally in possession of a gun in similar cirumstances fortunately would not get the atrocious treatment he did.

I know of many British people in possession of shotguns. I seem to have to repeat over and over that guns have not been banned in the UK. Certain types of guns have been restricted.

We have a RIGHT to own a shotgun. Provided you aren't a criminal or someone with mental health problems or have some other valid reason to be refused, you will be given a shotgun licence if you apply. It's a right not a privilege.

Please dude stop spewing guff on these boards.


My British friends are always amazed how little their countrymen know about their own firearms laws. You can own a semi-auto AR15 in the UK as long as it is chambered in .22 LR and you can own an AR15 chambered in 5.56 if it is not semi-auto but a manual cycling "straight pull." You can have silencers even, which are much easier to get there than here. I've shot them in the UK. Gunowners in the UK tend to keep to themselves though. Socially, being a gun collector in the UK is like being a gay man in the US South during the 1950's. You just don't talk about it.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:10 AM
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reply to post by NavyDoc
 


Maybe, just maybe, there's other sociological forces at work behind the increase in violence, other than a gun ban. How would we ever know if legalising guns would have prevented the increase or decreased it. Your statistics prove nothing.

It might even be down to the police recording domestic violence in the statistics rather than having it as a seperate category. We need a link to be able to see where you're getting your statistics from.
edit on 16-1-2013 by Hopeforeveryone because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by superman2012
 


Lets take a real life example..

Tony Martin was woken up in the middle of the night by two burglers who invaded his rural home.. He shot them with a shotgun.. One of them died.. The other lived to claim compensation for his injuries..

Tony Martin got put in jail for manslaughter... For protecting his home and possesions..

Do you not see something wrong in that?


Lets have a look at the whiter than white Tony Martin


Martin had equipped himself with an illegally-held (according to current UK law) pump-action Winchester Model 1300 12 bore shotgun which he claimed to have found



Martin had his shotgun certificate revoked in 1994 after he found a man scrumping for apples in his orchard and shot a hole in the back of his vehicle



Martin claimed that he opened fire after being woken when the intruders smashed a window. But his claim that he had shot at them from halfway down the stairs was apparently disproved by scientific evidence that showed he must have fired his shotgun from the doorway of a downstairs room. The prosecution accused him of lying in wait for the burglars and opening fire without warning from close range, in retribution for previous break-ins at his home.


So do you think is reasonable to shot at someone for stealing some apples


Unlike what you are claiming you can defend your home with reasonable force and that may indeed end up with the death of the intruder there have been a few cases recently but YOU don't seen to mention those.

How about Vincent Cooke for example

www.huffingtonpost.co.uk...

It's amazing how much bias some people put into a thread to justify their view



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:23 AM
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Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by EvanB

If the public had a real deterrant against crime and bad governance.. Would Maggie have taken the kids milk?

Answers on a postcard to ....


Maggie took milk in 1970?

So, to answer your question, unless you think something passed in the 1968 Firearms Act would have stopped her, yes. She would.



1970? Really? They were still handing it out in my infant school in 1979. I'm not sure why people would have taken to the streets with arms over that muck. They used to leave it festering all morning by the radiator, by the time we got it it was yogurt.



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by EvanB
 


You are absolutely right.
I don't mean to steal any attention from your thread, but I think it works well coupled with this one I had written a while back.

Gun banning - Why would gun control measures that didn't work in the UK, work in the US? (Hungerford, Dunblane, Cumbria)

It gives a little history (I am an American so I may not have it all correct), but I am interested in hearing from you (if you were told enough to remember all of these) what it was like during those times when bans were being pushed. Why did you folk from the UK submit so easily. I mean we have people ready to do the same here, but did you not have the same amount of opposition to these bills that we have here?


As has been pointed out a few times on this thread, it's pointless trying to compare what are effectively two different cultures. I'm slowly creeping into middle age and have never owned a gun, never wanted to own a gun and don't know anyone else (in the UK) who has a gun or has ever to the best of my knowledge professed to wanting a gun - the only exception being friends or relations in the armed services.

We didn't submit - it's just not something that is of interest to the vast majority of people and as has been said you can get a gun if you really really want to. It's in the American mindset that it is a right to own whatever you wish, it is lobbied I'm sure at great expense in your government, and you have a multi billion dollar business made up of gun sellers. The UK hasn't - on this issue probably more than any other America and the UK (actually most of Europe) differ, that's all.
edit on 16-1-2013 by something wicked because: typo



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:25 AM
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reply to post by Suspiria
 


Lol.. You always bring a touch of Northern class and and humour to any thread..

But being strapped down clockwork orange style sounds like my kinda fun :-)



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by misscurious
NO we didn't .. why do we need guns here?

Actually re reading your post I've never heard so Much nonsense.. so instead of demonstrating peacefully we take to the streets with guns? I'm glad we don't have more people like you livng here...
edit on 15-1-2013 by misscurious because: (no reason given)


And you are the queen of England and sole ruler of the UK?... You need to grow up a little bit more and understand that people have a right to decide FOR THEMSELVES whether they should be armed or not...



posted on Jan, 16 2013 @ 07:28 AM
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Originally posted by Suspiria

Originally posted by khimbar

Originally posted by EvanB

If the public had a real deterrant against crime and bad governance.. Would Maggie have taken the kids milk?

Answers on a postcard to ....


Maggie took milk in 1970?

So, to answer your question, unless you think something passed in the 1968 Firearms Act would have stopped her, yes. She would.



1970? Really? They were still handing it out in my infant school in 1979. I'm not sure why people would have taken to the streets with arms over that muck. They used to leave it festering all morning by the radiator, by the time we got it it was yogurt.


i too recieved milk in school (every morning playtime iirc) between approx 78-81, as did my whole class in my very average school. i have no idea if it was free, or if parents paid or if the school funded it another way, i was too busy playing tig-off-ground and singing the rhubarb and custard theme tune to think about the politics.



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