Children die in Syria, Airstrikes blamed.

Firstly, I do not see the Britain based observatory as credible. We don't know who they are in contact with in Syria and its most likely activists who have aligned with the FSA at all costs. But anyway, 21 children have been killed in what watchdogs suggest were Assad airstrikes which have fueled international calls for a warcrimes probe. The children were killed in Aleppo and also the outskirts of Damascus.

A media outlet has blamed the killings on terrorists but the article doesn't say very much about the views of that outlet. I will be surely looking for more evidence throughout those media sites. On one side we have the West blaming everything on the Assad regime, even though they may not directly blame him, they certainly wan the viewer to think that way. I'm not saying the airstrikes were not the cause of the deaths, but with more information coming out of Syria, more evidence that the opposition are tormenting civilians, I am going to save my judgement until a bit more comes out.

At least 21 children have been killed in violence in Syria, a watchdog says, fuelling international calls for a war crimes probe into the 22-month conflict.

Reports of the child deaths came as Human Rights Watch accused President Bashar al-Assad's regime of expanding its use of banned cluster bombs.

Another thing the media is pushing is the cluster bombs, even to the point that a New York rights watch has determined that the SAA are using the munitions in rockets which could increase the threat to the population. I don't know about anyone else, but its seems these human rights groups will use anything to demonise the Syrian army and Assad. One thing I have noticed is the next to nothing information of what the rebels are doing remembering, these same rebels were killing Christians last week while booting them out of their homes also.

But even if the probe was to go ahead, the likes of Russia and China will most likely reject any new resolutions for warcrimes as they are not members of the International criminal court.

The demand was to be made in a letter organised by Switzerland, which has spent seven months collecting signatures.

Diplomatic sources said 55 countries had signed and others could still join even though the initiative has little immediate chance of success.

The security council is deadlocked over the conflict, with veto-wielding permanent members Russia and China having blocked three resolutions threatening sanctions against Assad's regime.

And with neither being members of The Hague-based ICC, they would almost certainly reject any new resolution proposing war crimes charges.

The wrangling comes amid warnings that the conflict, which according to the UN has sent more than 600,000 Syrians fleeing into neighbouring countries, is growing more dangerous for civilians in the face of the regime's expanded use of cluster bombs.

Thoughts..

reply to post by DarknStormy


More than Sandy Hook. Where is the outrage?

On a even more serious note, with death tolls over 60k, and we idly stand by. I guess this is what We The People want, right? For us to stay out of everyones' business?

reply to post by Libertygal


Yeah its ok if almost two dozen people die in the Middle East, as long as it isn't in the USA, who cares, right? But I guess 21 isn't that high considering 3,500 have been killed since the start of the war. Gotta love western liberation.

When the sandy hook shooting happened, and the outrage after, I had alot of mixed feelings. What bothered me was for months and months, Ive been seeing pics as they come out of dead children in syria, limbs missing, and its like noone cares.
Yes what happened here is very tragic, if it happened at all but does it only count when its on our land?

So now people hear 21 children at the same time and only NOW they want to do something about it?!

reply to post by WeBrooklyn


Maybe the other 3479 were slaughtered by the rebels and they didn't want to bring to much attention to them

Originally posted by DarknStormy
Thoughts..

I think this thread is a Travesty. Here is a tragic story about 21 children being killed then you ask where is the outrage?

Yet, you show none.

However, you yourself, upon posting a story about a heinous act carried out by Assad's forces you demonstrate your preoccupation with implying that those involved and responsible [Assad's forces] are not so involved or responsible while exposing your obviously horribly veiled biased agenda. I think all those who are informed and have been paying attention to the Syrian situation know full well that both sides are and have been responsible for heinous actions.

I'm not saying the airstrikes were not the cause of the deaths, but with more information coming out of Syria, more evidence that the opposition are tormenting civilians, I am going to save my judgement until a bit more comes out.

Does that even make any sense?

Save judgement on what? Whether those airstrikes that killed 21 children were justified or not? Condemn them for what they are and lay blame on those responsible [Assad's forces] just like when the rebels are obviously to blame for the atrocities that they cause as well.

Both sides have blood on their hands

Originally posted by DarknStormy

Yeah its ok if almost two dozen people die in the Middle East, as long as it isn't in the USA, who cares, right? But I guess 21 isn't that high considering 3,500 have been killed since the start of the war. Gotta love western liberation.


Maybe the other 3479 were slaughtered by the rebels and they didn't want to bring to much attention to them

AND, What of the over 60,000 killed by Assad?

*POOF...?

reply to post by DarknStormy


38 children died in gun-related violence in Chicago last year.

Just sayin'

Maybe if we could convince the Syrian people to accept strict gun control measures these atrocities would no longer happen?

People need to stop using dead children as political props to push their agendas.

Just saying be it here in the Us or the middle east.

Originally posted by neo96
People need to stop using dead children as political props to push their agendas.

Just saying be it here in the Us or the middle east.

edit on 15-1-2013 by neo96 because: (no reason given)

Or live children for that matter........like the president is going to do tomorrow , as a prop to push his gun control matters.......

Children shouldnt be used as a means to an agenda for sure bud i agree

reply to post by DarknStormy

I don't know about anyone else, but its seems these human rights groups will use anything to demonise the Syrian army and Assad.

OP I understand your position on Syria all too well, you and I have discussed this in depth in the past so I know that you are no fan of the Syrian rebels. That being said however I think you really need to read over some of your comments on this thread such as the one above. I find it incomprehensible that anyone with a conscious could say that in the same breath as talking about 21 kids being killed in an airstrike by Assad forces.

Maybe the other 3479 were slaughtered by the rebels and they didn't want to bring to much attention to them

The same can be said for this above comment, putting in that smiley in there was a big mistake I will leave it to you to reflect on the impression that leaves on people reading this thread.

Aside from that, what you are saying about being distrusting of these human rights groups because they don’t seem to be reporting on the atrocities committed by the rebels I can tell you quite categorically you are wrong. Just now, I am in the process of writing a thread looking at human rights abuses committed by fractions of the Syrian rebel forces and the information is their if you look at it from the likes of Amnesty international, the Human rights watch and even the UN.

What is also true however is that the regime of Al-Assad has committed serious breaches of human rights he and those leading his military responsible for these actions must be brought to justice. It’s not just the cluster bombs, but it’s the torture, it’s the use of rape as a weapon and it’s the killing of 21 children in an indiscriminate airstrike.

OP I ask you do you accept that the Syrian military with Al-Assad as their commander in chief has committed crimes against humanity?

Originally posted by SLAYER69
Does that even make any sense?

Save judgement on what? Whether those airstrikes that killed 21 children were justified or not? Condemn them for what they are and lay blame on those responsible [Assad's forces] just like when the rebels are obviously to blame for the atrocities that they cause as well.

Both sides have blood on their hands

Save judgement on who committed the crime because it is a well known fact that the west will lie through their teeth.. Justification doesn't come into it. You even know this, why wouldn't it make sense? I understand both sides have blood on their hands but whats to say this wasn't the act of rebels? Maybe they are just bombing the joint and setting up the SAA like they have been in the past.

AND, What of the over 60,000 killed by Assad?

Who has actually said that the 60,000 were all killed by Assad? The same twats that are now saying he has already used chemical weapons? I thought the fatalities were just the figures of the war in general.. You say both sides have blood on their hands yet you also say Assad is responsible for the 60,000 + dead? I don't think that makes sense.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

OP I understand your position on Syria all too well, you and I have discussed this in depth in the past so I know that you are no fan of the Syrian rebels. That being said however I think you really need to read over some of your comments on this thread such as the one above. I find it incomprehensible that anyone with a conscious could say that in the same breath as talking about 21 kids being killed in an airstrike by Assad forces.

If it can be proven that they were killed by airstrikes, I would accept it, no worries.. But all I'm saying is that the rebels have set up the SAA in the past with their flip phones and it wouldn't surprise me if they are pulling the stunt again. As for the kids, I have two of my own, It pisses me off that our countries can support these atrocities and then put full responsibility on the guy they are after.

The same can be said for this above comment, putting in that smiley in there was a big mistake I will leave it to you to reflect on the impression that leaves on people reading this thread.

You think I'm happy children are dying or something? The smiley had nothing to do with being happy about kids being killed.. It was more of a joke because of the lack of attention people pay to these types of things.. Yet when it happens in their country, everyone must get it shoved down their throats..

Aside from that, what you are saying about being distrusting of these human rights groups because they don’t seem to be reporting on the atrocities committed by the rebels I can tell you quite categorically you are wrong. Just now, I am in the process of writing a thread looking at human rights abuses committed by fractions of the Syrian rebel forces and the information is their if you look at it from the likes of Amnesty international, the Human rights watch and even the UN.

Thats great, so why do we continue to sponsor them and give them a pat on the back? It contradicts the initial argument about Assad because they are doing the exact same thing. And while your at it, why don't you look for all the human rights abuses in Iraq also? I'm sure Amnesty international is riddled with cases.

What is also true however is that the regime of Al-Assad has committed serious breaches of human rights he and those leading his military responsible for these actions must be brought to justice. It’s not just the cluster bombs, but it’s the torture, it’s the use of rape as a weapon and it’s the killing of 21 children in an indiscriminate airstrike.

I understand that Assad is committing the acts also, I have never actually admitted to him not being responsible for some of the things happening in Syria. I like to think that if the rebels will commit these acts, they cannot be left out of something like what was brought up in the OP. Again, give me the evidence that airstrikes were the cause and I will agree with you. 40 Newspapers with the same report dont count either.

OP I ask you do you accept that the Syrian military with Al-Assad as their commander in chief has committed crimes against humanity?

same as above.

Originally posted by DarknStormy


Who has actually said that the 60,000 were all killed by Assad?

The Assad Family has been killing Syrians since 1971.



Their "legacy" is about killing. Its been documented.

Originally posted by sonnny1
The Assad Family has been killing Syrians since 1971.

Their "legacy" is about killing. Its been documented.

Check todays news, you will also see the legacy of the rebels... Syrian University.

reply to post by DarknStormy


40 years of dictatorial murder..... You cannot deny those facts.

Both have blood on their hands, but Assad and his family bathe in it..........

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

40 years of dictatorial murder..... You cannot deny those facts.

I'm not denying those facts, but what is going on isn't really fixing the issue either, is it?

Both have blood on their hands, but Assad and his family bathe in it..........

Rifaat al-Assad (born 1937). Formerly a powerful security chief who was responsible for the 1982 Hama massacre. After attempting a coup d'état in 1984 he went into exile in France and now lives in London.

Like this Assad happily living in the UK?

Rifaat

To Ribal, as he told Channel 4 News, Rifaat is a democrat and has been calling for democracy since the 1970s. Perhaps nobody heard him over the sound of tank fire. As a "democrat" he played a very curious role as head of the ruthless internal security services. Human Rights Watch reported that he was responsible for the massacre of more than 1,000 prisoners in the notorious Tadmur jail in 1980.

But the city with which Rifaat will always be associated is Hama. In February 1982, Hama was besieged and shelled for 27 days, following an uprising in the city. Estimates of numbers killed vary from 10,000 to 40,000. The year before, in another massacre, 350 men and boys were simply rounded up and shot.

He will fit in well with democracy, won't he? Heres what they think of him in Syria.

But instead of throwing Rifaat out of Syria, Hafiz should have put him on trial. He is possibly the most hated of all Syrians, including those who are still part of the regime. Few in the region have more innocent blood on their hands.

So what the hell are we missing here? The guy was thrown out of his own country because of what he done.. How can he be welcome in the West when we are condemning his brother for the very same atrocities? We still hunt down NAZIs yet we know where this guy is and can't charge him with crimes against humanity? Why not?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


Maybe you should do a thread of how mass murderers can seek asylum in Western countries?

reply to post by DarknStormy

Again, give me the evidence that airstrikes were the cause and I will agree with you. 40 Newspapers with the same report dont count either.

Well unfortunately there isn’t much else I can do via the internet other than provide you with links about the airstrike that killed over 20 kids. So we will have to leave it at you don’t believe the airstrike took place because you refuse to believe anything published in the media.

Again I will ask you, do you accept that the Syrian pro-government forces with Al-Assad as their leader have breached human rights.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

Well unfortunately there isn’t much else I can do via the internet other than provide you with links about the airstrike that killed over 20 kids. So we will have to leave it at you don’t believe the airstrike took place because you refuse to believe anything published in the media.

I can believe some things in the media but the media doesn't seem to have the evidence I am looking for. Saying some activist told the British observatory doesn't cut it for me. Really, every piece of information goes through that observatory and of course, nothing is ever about rebel atrocities.. But maybe the activists are just hanging with the FSA and no the extremists..

Again I will ask you, do you accept that the Syrian pro-government forces with Al-Assad as their leader have breached human rights.

Yes and I will explain why. When you have extremists operating in your country, booting people out of their homes, occupying those homes, it makes it pretty hard not to hit civilians. Now some evacuate when the rebels enter but not everyone and the ones who stay have stayed at their own risk. I'm not saying they deserve to be killed, its just war and its the chance that they are willing to take.

Of course Assad is committing crimes against humanity, but its no different to what the US has done in Iraq, What Europe done in Libya, What Mexican drug cartels are doing 150km away from the US border. Crimes against humanity are not isolated to Syria and to pin Assad and no-one else is a joke.

When it comes to Syria, Assad has a choice.. Get rid of the terrorists or lose Syria. With that, innocent lives should be expected to get caught in the crossfires. Every single atrocity coming out of Syria right now is pinned to the regime. I don't believe that the truth is being told. I think we are seeing the FSA propaganda machine at full swing while their extremist buddies are committing the crimes themselves. I can't prove that, the only way I could is by giving you some Syrian media outlet but to me, thats just like you giving me The New York Times or BBC and I wont do it.

So you don't have to ask the question again. Yes, the regime are committing crimes against humanity but its very hard to understand which ones without factual evidence. I don't see the British observatory as a credible source simply because I believe they are bias, same with the media even though they do touch upon a couple of things which may suggest rebel responsibility. I'm not concerned about demographics, whos who in Syria, what food they like to eat on Sundays, all I'm trying to work out is who the f&#^ is causing the problems and its hard.

There is too much coming from both sides and as much as they continue to blame each other, it really doesn't help trying to work out what the hell is going on. With that, I wasn't trying to use the deaths of 21 children to further my agenda, what ever you want to call it. I could of put up numerous articles with atrocities and a different heading, I just chose this one because it is current.