Who discovered noah's ark? Ron Wyatt or Ed Davis/George Hagopian?

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


OK...Let me get this straight. You agree that Tectonic Plate Movement is a fact but refuse to accept the fact that this movement over untold Millions of years did not breakup Pangaea into the current continents?

Even though the Geological Rock Samples from the edges of matching continents proves this to be a fact?

You also believe that these Stone Age people who lived at the supposed time of Noah believed that there was only one continental mass at the time...WHICH IS GEOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE...and you believe this as well and since it is obvious as well as documented through out this history that these people who didn't even know that there was more than one continent were smart enough to know the World was ROUND?

Incidentally the Greeks existed AFTER the time of these people so using that as proof doesn't work.

Then you refuse to believe that Man has evolved over a period of about 5 Million Years to ge t to our current form even though Carbon Dating which is Radioactive decay of Carbon 14 and is a Law of Physics...but because someone wrote it into the Bible thousands of years latter it must be so?

Then to top it off you ask ME to prove MY STATEMENTS when you are creating a FANTASY version of events of which you have not one shred of Logic or Scientific basis or any tinniest bit of proof to stand on? And you ask ME to prove it? LOLOLOLOLOL!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

OK...Let me get this straight. You agree that Tectonic Plate Movement is a fact but refuse to accept the fact that this movement over untold Millions of years did not breakup Pangaea into the current continents?

You keep making dogmatic assertions. I ask you to produce the proof.

So, do it.

You also believe that these Stone Age people who lived at the supposed time of Noah

You assert they were "Stone Age", which is merely an assertion that is not true at all. They were metal users dude.

believed that there was only one continental mass at the time...WHICH IS GEOLOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE.

PROVE IT!!!!

since it is obvious as well as documented through out this history that these people who didn't even know that there was more than one continent were smart enough to know the World was ROUND?

You keep making unsubstantiated dogmatic assertions, that are empty and baseless.

Lets see THE PROOF!

Incidentally the Greeks existed AFTER the time of these people

Not long.

The ancients were not dumb like most ill informed people think. They had a high degree of math and engineering skills that in many ways surpasses today's.

Then you refuse to believe that Man has evolved over a period of about 5 Million Years

PROVE IT!

to ge t to our current form even though Carbon Dating which is Radioactive decay of Carbon 14

Carbon dating does not work on rocks, and is highly unreliable.

Carbon dating can only tell you what the rate of decay is based on the current rate, which we know is not the constant the ill informed think it is,

and is a Law of Physics

Saying "Law of Physics" is not PROOF.

Then to top it off you ask ME to prove MY STATEMENTS

You are the one making dogmatic assertions that are unsubstantiated. It is up to YOU to PROVE THEM!

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


LOL!

The ONUS is not upon me to prove basic well known facts...I was using the term Stone Age in a derogitory manner...the ONUS is upon you as your the one who stated because it was written in the Bible a notoriously known Book of exagerations and mistranslations.

Carbon 14 dating works on anything that still has some preserved organic material and this includes ROCKS.

Continental Drift which is Tectonic Plate Movement is easily calculated to show just how and when Pangaea existed and when it started to break up which was about 200 Million Years Ago.

Even the story of Noah's Ark cannot be to be an actual occurance and the Biblical Story is just that...a story. It is not possible even if all the Ice melted on the planet for all continents to be covered and IT IS IMPOSSIBLE for one craft to hold two of every species on Earth nor is it possible for only two of every species to have enough genetic diversity to be able to do this as the various species would become sterile after only a few generations and this includes any less than 3 to 4 Thousan Humans as say 100 is not enough genetic diversity to populate the planet nor would only 100 breed enough people to represent all races.

You are like a 7 year old kid who believes in the Easter Bunny. By the way...IT'S THE CELEBRATION OF ESTER the pagan godess of fertility NOT EASTER. Why do you think we represent Easter with Bunnies, Baskets with grass, Eggs, Chicks and the like? Because it WAS A FERTILITY HOLIDAY OF SPRING!

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

The ONUS is not upon me to prove basic well known facts.

You assert they are "facts", but that is nothing but an unsubstantiated, baseless, empty claim and nothing more.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

Carbon 14 dating works on anything that still has some preserved organic material and this includes ROCKS.

Better check that. Clearly you are ill informed on these matters.

You are like a 7 year old kid who believes in the Easter Bunny.

A sure fire sign of a loser is to go for the ad hominem.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


OK...lets take each issue one at a time. I will start with your disagreement upon the existence of Pangaea.

You agree that Tectonic Plate Movement is a fact as you stated.

The Planets crust is seperated into various Tectonic Plates that are all in a constante state of motion. As example the Pacific Plate is being forced under the North American Plate at the U.S. West coast state of California.

As the Pacific Plate is forced under the North American Plate in what is called Subduction...it's movement can very easily be seen when one looks at Hawaii as the weak Hot Spot where Magma is forced out through the crust has created the Hawaiian Island Chain and as the plate moved so did the Islands as we can see Hundreds of miles of plate movement by looking at the line of islands created that is the chain.

Eventually the Pacific plate over Millions of Years will be subducted under North America and China and Australia will be touching the Americas.

Now this is a FACT. We see it happening and can measure the time passing and needed to change the oceans and landmasses of the world.

Now tell me how you can possibly deny this? Split Infinity

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


Now we have the issue of 5 Million Years of the Evolution of Humanity.

Modern Man is defined as at first Cro Magnon and our current state and biological form that is Homo Sapien.

Cro Magnon appeared 60,000 Years ago and is considered the first Modern Human. If you were to look at a Police Lineup that had 7 Homo Sapiens and 1 Cro Magnon you would be very hard pressed to tell the difference. Cro Magnon looked like us and was a bit taller on average. Cro Magnon also had a larger brain than us but not the level of tech.

About 30,000 Years Ago Cro Magnon had evolved into US...Homo Sapien.

Neanderthal was a Genetic Dead End and came into existence 130,000 years ago and died out 30,000 years ago.

Prior to this and all the way back nearly 5 Million Years was Lucy and before her Ardi. Two of the most ancient of all Human Ancestors.

Humanity is ancient in the extreme and with the mapping of the entire Human Genome we can see the Genetic Markers that dente our Evolutionary Past States that were Cro Magnon and all the older Human Ancestors.

Now what is it that you have issue with? Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
the Bible is a notoriously known Book of exagerations and mistranslations

The laws of probability have proved that to be completely IMPOSSIBLE.

In other words: it is scientifically IMPOSSIBLE for your argument to be correct.

The chances of just 48 out of the 456 prophecies being fulfilled in one person are 1 in 10 to the 157 power.

That's — 1 in 10,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,
000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.

"All this illustrates why it is absolutely impossible for anyone to have fulfilled the Messianic prophecies by chance. In fact, a leading authority on the probability theory, Emile Borel states that once we go past one chance in 10 to the 50th power, the probabilities are so small it's impossible to think they will ever occur."

LINK

"...once we go past one chance in 10 to the 50th power, the probabilities are so small it's impossible to think they will ever occur....Mathematicians generally agree that, statistically, any odds beyond 1 in 1050 have a zero probability of ever happening.... This is Borel's law in action which was derived by mathematician Emil Borel....

Here is one last illustration of the immensity of the number 10 to the 157th power and why the science of probability shows we are dealing with the miraculous… Imagine one ant traveling at the speed of only one inch every 15 billion years. If he could only carry one atom at a time, how many atoms could he move in 10 to the 157th power of years?

He would, even at that incredibly slow speed, be able to move all the atoms in 600,000 trillion trillion trillion trillion universes the size for our universe, a distance of 30 billion light years! Again, by the laws of probability, all of this means that it is simply impossible for 48 prophecies to be fulfilled by chance. LINK

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by Murgatroid
I am completely convinced that Ron Wyatt is for real.

I spoke with a close personal friend of Ron Wyatt years ago that left me with no question whatsoever about the legitimacy of all of Ron's discoveries.

THE PROPHETIC TELEGRAPH No.78
"The Ark was found on 6th January 1982 but was kept secret by request of the Israeli Government. ... the whole episode has been compassed about by miracle." Link

See this link for more:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

I agree that Ron Wyatt was right.

reply to post by Murgatroid


What you have stated here as well as the math and even the logic is BEYOND false as well as completely impossible and illogical.

You are stating as well as using a quote from an OBVIOUS pro-creationist that the Gospels...which we have because OTHER people wrote down what they claim to be the Gospels of the actual Apostles as we do not have the actual texts and only the texts of people who wrote down what THEY SAY were the writtings of the Apostles and these people wrote these copies down sometimes HUNDREDS OF YEARS after the time the supposed actual Gospels were written by the Apostles.

You are also stating that odds or High that the Bible is incorrect even though we know of HUNDREDS of Mistranslations of the ORIGINAL TEXTS whcih again were not texts wriiten by the actual people who experienced such supposed actions but written down by OTHER Christians and Authors who did not witness actual events but SAY what they have written down is fact. They said this even though the stories they wrote were based upon handed down stories from other people and even when it is said they rewrote the stories from the ORIGINAL TEXTS of the Apostles...why would they not have preserved such original texts as we do not have even one original text from any of the Apostles and every Gospel written into the Bible was translated from a TEXT that was written by someone else other than an Apostle.

We also know and this has been CONFIRMED by both the Vatican and the other now existing Christian Sect Leaders and Historians that MOSES DID NOT PART THE RED SEA. He crossed the REED SEA and the digs of this area which has unearthed Egyptian Chariots support this. The Vatican stated that they will not change the Biblical Story to what the ACTUAL TRANSLATION really is at it might CONFUSE THE FAITHFUL.

The REALITY is that it is WELL KNOWN even to all the various Christian Leadership and Historians that the Bible and New Testament has a Multitude of Mistranslations and mistakes as well as there are many ancient texts that have been both placed in the Bible and many that have not as the Church has decided what should go in in order to not allow any conflicting concepts and history lines within the Bible.

These are all provable facts that are admitted to exist by the very Highest Level of ALL Christian Leaderships....YET...you can actually think anbelieve and POST that there is almost no possibility that what is written in the Old and New Testaments could be wrong or mistranslated or perhaps simply just MADE UP by some Monk who wrote a Religious Text two or three HUNDRED YEARS after the Death of Christ?

COME ON! LOL!

Split Infinity

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


You stated that you believe that at the time of the supposed existence of Noah that there was one land mass as this is what was written in the Bible.

YOU DID SAY THIS.

This is Geologically IMPOSSIBLE.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

Then to top it off you ask ME to prove MY STATEMENTS

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Murgatroid

 

Far be it that anyone would have the guts to ask for proof in order to believe in something.

That's just CRAZY! LOL!

Split Infinity

Apply what you said above to yourself being asked for proof for your unsubstantiated dogmatic assertions.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp

 

You stated that you believe that at the time of the supposed existence of Noah that there was one land mass as this is what was written in the Bible.

YOU DID SAY THIS.

This is Geologically IMPOSSIBLE.

Split Infinity

Prove it!

Your unsubstantiated dogmatic claims do not equate to proof. They are just empty claims.

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


Are you actually interested? Or are you being willfully ignorant and pedantic?

Either way, a good starting point.........

Age of the Planet

How do we know the age of the Universe and of Earth?

Pangea (this is from Wiki but even they state their source material, if you wish to peruse it).

reply to post by JuniorBeauchamp


The things I have stated are backed by hundreds of years of Scientific Study, Experiments and in the case of Evolution...actual practical APPLICATIONS as remember...when you take a bite out of an ear of Butter Sugar Corn this summer...you are eating Genetically Engineered Food!

Dogma is a word specific to the creation of Religion and it's rules, practices and beliefs. Dogma does not apply to Science as science is simply the search for FACTS...not TRUTH...through the Scientific Method of experimentation and observation.

Split Infinity

You cannot have a copy without the original first existing. We are the copy. Evidence is relative and it is relative to the minor reality of a 3 dimensional world that your creation is designed to encompass, while the majority of what truly exists is beyond the 3 dimensional scope. Comparatively speaking only a few can go beyond this 3 dimensional prison.

Your processing of information in this world are relegated to 5 senses only, touch, smell, sight, hearing and taste. Your version of proof is irrelevant to what is truly in existence and cannot be detected based on the limits of this design for this world and its purpose.

That is the reason why science for the most part is a joke and in denial of the META in PHYSICS. That is also the reason why people are so obsessed with proving that God exists for God to exist, when it is clearly so obvious in the intelligent design of everything from the micro to the macro. People want to occupy their minds with primitive science in this search for 'proving God" to justify everything they do not understand or see for far different reasons that mostly are internal and personal. That version of 'science' can only in and of itself perceive this limited 3 dimensional reality which in truth is not scientific at all, thus proving very little in the bigger picture.

That is to say that what ever minor realities are 'proven' are minor portions of that limited formula based on 5 senses that barely touch on the truth of this universe.

Faith in God is FAITH in understanding this truth. This entire planet and universe is the fingerprint of intelligent design. You virtually have to be blind not to see that.

There is much that cannot be proven in our world. In fact the majority of what is in the universe cannot be proven or even known thus cancelling any argument for proof.

Faith in God comes from the soul/spirit which can neither be proven but is the very essence driving our physical bodies and minds.

Proof of anything in this world according to our knowledge is a method of evaluating logically evidence that are deductively formulated on certain assumptions. This is relative. This form of deduction is based on the limitations of those 'assumptions' which prove very little in terms of what truly exists.

There is currently no way to measure the metaphysics in bonding very real life force connections that like a ripple effect, echo throughout space and time and have an effect on everything or parts of everything.

This is a very tiring argument because it is complete with very little insight relegated to the very primitive formula of the 5 senses or earth's limited understanding of science that excludes the META which constitutes much of existence.

reply to post by Egyptia


Ahhh...we do not exist or live in a 3 Dimensional Universe. We exist in a minimum 10 or 11 Dimensional State Universal Reality.

As example...an Atom thus Matter is comprised of a Nucleus that contains Protons and also sometimes Neutrons. This Atomic Nucleus is orbitted by Electrons which are Quantum Particle/Wave Forms.

In order for an Atom to exist as well as Electrons to be able to orbit that Atomic Nucleus our Universe needs to have the ability of MOVEMENT...thus 4-D. This still is not enough Dimensions for Matter to exist as that Electron which is a Quanta....exists as both Particle and Wave.

Also the Protons and Neutrons are completely comprised of Quantum Particle/Wave Forms such as Quarks, Glueons, Leptons, Mesons...etc. These are all Particle/Wave Forms of ENERGY. In the case of Quarks...these Quanta have the ability to BLINK IN AND OUT OF OUR UNIVERSAL REALITIES EXISTENCE. Quarks can exist at a minimum to maximum Numerical quantity as well as anywhere in between at will.

These facts show mathematically that for Matter to even EXIST we need at MINIMUM 10 or 11 States of Dimensionality.

EVIDENCE...is NEVER RELATIVE OR SUBJECTIVE. Evidence is the observable state of anything at a specific position, moment, time or condition whether by our senses or by using Math or Logic.

What the EVIDENCE can be applied to is relative.

Split Infinity

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Egyptia

 

Ahhh...we do not exist or live in a 3 Dimensional Universe. We exist in a minimum 10 or 11 Dimensional State Universal Reality.

That was my point - exactly. This world's version of proving something is relative to it's laws of 3 dimensional reality while we exist in multiple dimensions that go beyond that 3 dimensional scope.

Yet you have managed to miss my point entirely. What is observable and hence provable as per our formula's are relative to our limited precepts.

reply to post by Egyptia


No...I didn't miss your point. You are talking about Dimensions as you would an Alternate Divergent Universal State of Reality.

The word Dimension is a term of Geometry. When I stated that we exist in a minimum 10 or 11 Dimensional Universe...it applies to the Geometry of Space/Time.

Split Infinity