Interesting Man Found Dead in Missouri Woods

What counts as an “experienced hiker” now? I’ve done lots of hikes all over the East and parts of the West. At no time did I not have the gear for any weather change, double so if I knew I was going to travel more than 15 miles.

I have to agree with the other St. Louis area people.

If you don't know someone who's worked for the DoD around St. Louis, you probably don't know many people.

Scott AFB, as far as I know, is the total logistics control center for ALL branches of the military. They are tied directly with the Geospatial DoD group that maps every inch of ground on the Earth.

There are literally thousands of people in the St. Louis area with Security Clearance that can't "discuss, even privately" what they've done for their jobs.

It's not that interesting.

Edit to add: Geospatial is based in the St. Louis area also.

Originally posted by kanng
They changed our forecast at the last minute as well that night.


i beg to differ

News announced this was coming in 4 days before it came in

I work outside , I pay attn. to weather

I've lived in Missouri for a few year and remember just how quickly the weather can change,one day 70's the next 20's and 3 feet of snow.
So sad he wasn't prepared,I was coincidentally watching a show on Nat Geo when I clicked on this thread called "I Shoundn't be Alive"about a couple that went to the Amazon and got off the trail was lost for 6 days.You think this kind of thing doesn't happen the United States these days.
My prayers and sympathies to the family...

reply to post by tport17


Very interesting story, hopefully I'm not repeating what others may have said, but if he were an "experianced" hiker, then shouldn't he have known how to start a fire?

I have read all of the previous posts and I am still unsure what to make of this. For right now, I think it is a simple tragedy, however I woudl like to bring up the points in my head that want me to beleive it was something of a cover-up related to DoD work.

First, let me state that I do a lot of hiking with my 3 yr old son and I am in my early 40's but a long time ago received an Eagle Scout award. I have not ever been in the military but have done some DoD work in San Diego at the Naval Space and War Command Center as a clearance-badged civilian programmer. So, I put myself in his shoes for a moment....

I go to a cabin with my kids, drop off some things in the room, tell the hotel staff all is well and we are heading out on a short walk. Being a Scoutmaster or involved in scouting, I know my kids would want to see the pro-scouting way of being prepared, so I fill a small backpack with the most essential items like first-aid kit, extra protien/energy bars, lightweight rain ponchos (these plastic sheets work pretty well at holding heat in or can be made into crude emergency shelter /wind blocks), Flashlight(s) you never know when you might want to explore a cave or look in a stump etc.. matches in a waterproof container, my survival knife, compass (check heading before setting out and write it down) and a few warm outter layers, plus enough water for each person for at least 1.5 times the intended trip duration or look on maps to gain knowledge of springs/streams if trip length a long one. Add to that, my cell phone and an external battery/solar panel for extended emergency use, if possible since I rarely have signals where I hike. I check my watch and look at the sun's position in the sky relative to nightfall, I know the sun is down @ 5PM today and it is 11AM now, so 2PM should be my turn-back time if I wish to return before complete darkness sets in. Set reminder alarm, ok, now we're off....

We are out for a while and the weather seems ok we make it to our turnback location (unless hiking a loop) and get going back. A person stops and asks if we need a ride back, I look at my watch and say "No thank you after assessing the kids energy" (What did the driver have in order to carry the folks, a horse? ATV?, Did this other person sense the kids were lagging or something?) . We carry onward and start slowing down a little, darkness arrives and no sign of the turn off. (if this were me, I'd be checking the compass reference dto initial starting point to assess if we overshot the turnoff or my GPS(which my kids would not know I have) for a waypoint taken ).

We keep going and we eventually are a few hours past the expected return time, weather is changing for the worse, I am feeling exhausted and hypothermic. My gut tells me I am lost somehow, I would build a fire and get warmth & rest for our group. Maybe someone will see it but at least we could have something to focus on and maybe get heat.

Question, why wouldn't an experienced person want to show his kids how to make a fire and survive? Is this a pride thing, too proud to admit they were lost?, surely, he must have told them at some point.
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This just seems fishy to me, he should have been able to at least build a fire as Scout Leader and an ex Airforce personnel. I mean he must have learned basic skills in case his plane went down or something.

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Now, I will throw a little ATS conspiracy int he mix:
I have not seen the actual print article where the media or sheriff or whomever talked to the stranger who offerd the ride but, what if, that person had the right gear to haul them into the woods and dump them?

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I don't really know but I do not believe he didn't try the fire/shelter thing. You can build it all out of sticks and leaves or find a hollowed tree trunk or other natural overhanging rock / cave etc... we will never know but I hope folks learn the dangers that can be had from a "walk in the Park"

Originally posted by Chance321
reply to post by tport17

 

Very interesting story, hopefully I'm not repeating what others may have said, but if he were an "experianced" hiker, then shouldn't he have known how to start a fire?

It is not just that. He was Air Force and had to have had basic training. Heck even boyscout have the knowledge to build a fire. But it was soaking wet and they were ill packed. That is how most people die from exposure. The Air Force part is what I am wondering about. At some point I would have bundled my boys in anything I was wearing and found some shelter...

It Was FREEZING, temps, not in the 40's hell we had just been struck with an ice storm the night before. This is very suspicious and I think that he was taken along with his sons, escaped bondage and beat feet with his boys and puppy, but succumbed to the elements before he could reach back to his home or more likely in the opposite direction from his home.

He trusted no one, this was why he refused the 'ride' mentioned by some witness.

Why he would not have stopped for the night, built a raging fire and found shelter for his sons tells me that he was on the run and in fear for their lives.

Sad story and something doesn't sound right. Did the wife report him missing? He was a cub scout leader and simply was lost? He could not find any shelter????? He had no cell phone? He had to have some training?
Someone offered him a ride? When? Was it on a paved road? There are a ton of questions. What is autopsy going to prove if in fact there was something underhanded going on?

Originally posted by KoolerKing
Sad story and something doesn't sound right. Did the wife report him missing? He was a cub scout leader and simply was lost? He could not find any shelter????? He had no cell phone? He had to have some training?
Someone offered him a ride? When? Was it on a paved road? There are a ton of questions. What is autopsy going to prove if in fact there was something underhanded going on?

That's a good question there, who doesn't carry a cell phone with them now days? And sure it was wet, but in a forest your still gonna be bound to find some reasonably dry kindling to get some kind of fire going, his survival training from the airforce should've seen to that. And what's the autopsy going to show or allowed to show?
Off topic, but kinda sounds like that FBI agent that disappeared (Anybody else remember seeing that here on ATS?) awhile back, was he ever found?

Not really sure about this entire story. The one thing I do know is that if the deaths of this man and his sons was not an "accident" or an "unfortunate occurrence" and they DID do autopsies, there would still be cover-up and the true cause of death would not be made public. If there is a ccover-up the only reason for an autopsy would be to cover it up even further.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by tport17


He sounds like a very intelligent man, to smart to let something like this happen. Especially with his two sons?

It's not adding up. AND what about this ride that was offered? Who offered that? They must have been very near a road for "someone" to have offered them a ride, which also makes little sense to me.

Thirty miles out and thirty miles back is sixty miles!! I don't have kids but personally I would never dream of taking kids 8 and 10 years old on a five mile hike, maybe five miles there and back, but sixty miles with kids 8 and 10?

No way.

I can't believe they got to where they were found by themselves.

Well, I remember reading of an incident years ago where a railroad worker became trapped in a refrigerated car. He wrote some sort of message in the frost to his wife before he died. When he was found, the ambient temperature in the car was somewhere in the 40s. He shouldn't have died, but according to the article, a theory was that simply because he thought he was dying, he died.

Now, I know that's a whole different can of worms, so I'm not going there. . .yet.

Peace.

Whatever people want to think regarding the circumstances of this tragedy, I can't help but feel absolutely gutted about the loss of life here and what the family must be going through.

That said, I do find it quite unreal that a person especially of his background would go out so unprepared. I'm more prepared taking the kids to the local playground than he was going on a hike through woods.

However, this is still a tragic loss of life and I do feel for the family.

Rest In Peace

Originally posted by Juggernog
reply to post by tport17

 

Hes just an airforce vet right? You do know that the AF's basic training is considered the easiest, unless he was a PJ?

I am trying to understand how basic training has anything to do with any information this man knows. I didn't know that how many push ups and pulls up you can do determined what kind of information you have access too.

Ususally the best fit ones are the ones used as fodder

reply to post by Libertygal


You said it right....I was in the army infantry for 4 years....one time we did a 30 mile march...pretty decent rate of speed...and I was smoked....really was exhausted. Id imagine with kids it would be worse. 30 miles is no joke and if the weather got cold quick...bad things can happen.

Good read anyway OP...I like this kind of stuff, but I think its very possible just poor judgement..even for someone with prior service.

They were dressed for spring day because it was mid 50s and 60s that Saturday they wernt dressed or prepaired for the cold that came in that night.

Maybe the "friendly driver" wasn't so "friendly" afterall....or the so-called witness who supposedly saw all this? The entire scenario doesn't sound/feel quite right. The victim didn't have a hand gun or knife on him? Just wondering. Folks can be more than vulnerable out in the wilds. There are dozens of scenarios that could be explored...Was very tragic no matter what and sometimes things occur that will never be known for whatever reasons. Sometimes, just bad luck...being in the wrong place at the wrong time, or seeing something one wasn't meant to see. Who knows?

Folks, have some respect.

This is a Father & 2 young sons who have sadly passed away in a terrible tragic accident.

Imagine if it were your family and you find some internet nutballs posting about how they were murdered, it's a conspiracy based on absolutely nothing but the fantasies inside their own deluded minds.

How would you feel?

How do you think his widow, children, family, and friends will feel if they read this nonsense?

Some of you are even accusing the driver of being involved, you are possibley entering the dangerous territory of defamation of character.

There is no evidence at all that this is anything other than a tragic accident.

You should be ashamed of yourselves. Have some respect and show some decorum to his family FFS.

Mods, you should shut this thing down.

reply to post by tport17


Ive lived in Missouri my whole life and Ive Hiked Mark Twain ,Ha Ha Tonka Ozark state and many many other Wooded trails ..I have to say there is no good reason that a family man would suddenly lose his ability to hike and take care of his family .To say it was because of the cold is just bull , any hiker in MO knows what to wear when hiking in the cold and would be able to survive in the elements if need be ..But the point is why would he need to ,why would he all of a sudden forget an area he knew well ..