People advocating or warning of a new American Revolution or Civil War...Who are your enemies?, page 3


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ATS Members have flagged this thread 21 times


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:23 PM by seeker1963
reply to post by xedocodex



It's true that I am pretty much dismissing replies that use "patriotism" or "the constitution" as their basis for their reply.

I do this because it is empty rhetoric.



There you have it folks!!!!! Someone who hates the Constitution and wants to destroy it!!! So for those of us this person is baiting, they in their own words, called those who use the Constitution as their arguement as using "empty rhetoric"!!!!!

No desire to learn anything or intellectually understanding anything........just a pitiful attempt to piss someone off and frame em up!

I am sure the owners of ATS would find pleasure in being served with papers and have to go thru the hassle of providing all of the required info because of a thread like this.......

TROLL THREAD!!
edit on 14-1-2013 by seeker1963 because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:24 PM by xedocodex
reply to post by seeker1963



Now you are begging????!!!!!!!

I think you need to tell your bosses (at whatever alphabet agency you work for) that you need some more training!

People have answered your questions already! Now you want specifics????? WOW!!!


And this seems to be all people have.

No real answers, just deflection.

People have answered my questions with generic hyperbolic BS of "patriotism" and "enemies of the Constitution"...but I honestly don't believe they have any idea what that even means. Who is against the Constitution? Those that see a problem with our gun culture and want to do something about it?

It doesn't seem like anyone knows what actually constitutes an "enemy of the Constitution" or how that is exactly defined. All I see is people basically saying "I know my enemy when I see them", but really have no idea how to articulately define who exactly that would be.

It is starting to seem that the only "enemies of the Constitution" are the ones that are willing to call for a "Revolution" if they don't get what they want. In case you don't already know, the Constitution doesn't not provide for you to revolt against the country.


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:25 PM by Kryties
reply to post by redmage



Threats? What the hell are you talking about? The OP merely asked who you are planning on fighting to keep your rights, something which I admit I was curious about too.

I am almost positive some of the gun nuts in this thread have reported the OP, don't you think if he was breaking forum rules the admin would be all over it like poo on flypaper?

So, now that we have established that your statement is nonsense, can you move on to actually attempt to answer the OPs perfectly reasonable question?



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:27 PM by MrSpad
Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to
post by xedocodex



It's true that I am pretty much dismissing replies that use "patriotism" or "the constitution" as their basis for their reply.

I do this because it is empty rhetoric.



There you have it folks!!!!! Someone who hates the Constitution and wants to destroy it!!! So for those of us this person is baiting, they in their own words, called those who use the Constitution as their arguement as using "empty rhetoric"!!!!!

No desire to learn anything or intellectually understanding anything........just a pitiful attempt to piss someone off and frame em up!

TROLL THREAD!!


Sounds more like he is tossing out people who wrap themselves in the constitution but really have no idea what it says.


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:28 PM by xedocodex
reply to post by redhorse



You are not interested in discussion. Discussion implies a willingness to learn. You are only interested in a brawl with people whose ideologies disagree with your own, and attempting (badly) to bait those people into saying something that you can paint as "crazy", or "violent", possibly incriminating, or some combination of all three.


I'm beginning to think I'm the only one interested in discussion, with all the calls for closing this thread, I think most of you just don't want me to bring up these difficult questions.

I honestly don't know who these people see as the enemy, and I thought people would at least know who they think the enemy is. But it seems like that might not be the case.


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:31 PM by Kryties
reply to post by xedocodex



It is a tactic the gun nuts use mate, pay it no heed. There is a concerted effort here on ATS at the moment by the gun nut crowd to silence and crush any dissenting opinion by any means possible, regardless of facts and the truth.

I call them out for their nonsense whenever possible. They deflect, cherry pick and outright lie but I will always be there to show them up for the BS artists they are.


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:34 PM by redmage
reply to post by Kryties



Perhaps you need to re-read the op.

Originally posted by xedocodex
who exactly do they think they are going to be at war with?

The President? The Government? The United States Military? Your Neighbor who happens to think that some gun control is a good idea? Piers Morgan? Bob Costas?


I'll repeat it in case you missed it again..."Who are they going to war with?"

If you don't understand that "war" is life or death situation, and a direct threat against lives, then this little discussion is over.

This thread is asking people to come in and make direct threats against specified people's lives. It's against the T&Cs, and against the law.
edit on 1/14/13 by redmage because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:36 PM by Kryties
reply to post by redmage



I don't know what OP your reading mate but the one I read was perfectly reasonable.

Have you reported the thread yet like a good little gun nut? Are you noticing a distinct lack of admin blocking or deleting it? What does that tell you hmm?


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:37 PM by topherman420
reply to post by xedocodex




I guess its hard for some people to see the shades of grey past all the black and white they paint their views with.
The people who shout revolution, im not sure if they see that it's not so cut and dry as "you are enemy and you are not" when it comes to 300 million + people.



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:38 PM by Kryties
reply to post by xedocodex



Actually, by the gun nut rationale you and I are the enemy.

I'm shaking in my boots, really. The gun nutters want us dead for simply having an opinion
edit on 14/1/2013 by Kryties because: (no reason given)



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:42 PM by schuyler
I do not believe that any individuals are seriously gping to "take up arms" against "the government" at all. As far as so-called "militia groups," they are small and also far more radical than your average citizen who believes in the second amendment. They may be able to be a thorn in the side of law & order, but they will never amount to a significant opposition movement. For one thing, they don't have the firepower. I don't care how many guns or how much ammunition you have stashed away, you can only fire one at a time. They don't have any tanks, but the government does.

The only way I could see anything playing out seriously is if a state such as Texas, Wyoming, Montana, or maybe others legislatively refused to accept the federal governments edicts. This would, of course, be contested in the courts with the US Attorney General suing the states. The Federal Court system would get involved, and it would seem to me that the Federal Court System, by and large, would side with the Feds. Duh. If AT THAT POINT the state(s) in question STILL told the Feds to take a hike, that's where it could get interesting.

Even at this point, though, you would have a significant number of the citizenry who would not go along with this and would protest. There are quite a few constituent groups who make a fine living having the government give them handouts, and they're not going to want this gravy train to stop.

Another group that has to be taken into consideration is the US military. Many surveys have indicated that US soldiers would not fire on the civilian populace, but can you be sure of that? Remember Kent State? May 4th, 1970. Four dead, nine wounded, and what did the protestors do? Run. But let's pretend THIS TIME "protestors" would not run--just for the sake of argument so we can continue this line of reasoning.

Last time this sort of thing happened serously is when George Wallace asserted states rights in terms of segregation. He called up the State National Guard to PREVENT desegregation. then the President "nationalized' the state National Guard and the very same citizen-soldiers who were ordered to PREVENT desegregation were then ordered to ENFORCE it. Same companies, same regiments, same people in uniform. Wallace lost.

Now I don't want to debate segregation here. That's really not the issue. The point is that a state (Alabama under Wallace) stood up to the Feds (under Kennedy) on an issue of States rights and lost. So the question becomes, could a state win ever?

I suspect it boils down to whether the National Guard of a given state would and even could stay loyal to the state. If a state could keep the National Guard and tell the Federal Courts to take a hike, then the power of the Feds would be challenged to such a point that it could spark violence.

But it still begs the question of the citizens. Right now in this country we have half the people thinking Obama is a saint and half of them believe he is the devil. (Obama as a symbol for the Feds and the direction of the country here) If half the citizens in your state still worhip Obama, you're not going to be getting any revolution going. And you CERTAINLY are not going to get it because the Feds pass an assault weapons ban again pretty much like we had last time.

OK. Let's go a little further. If the economy tanks, which, of course, every third grader now claims will happen, AND if the military sees its power eroding as cuts are made, AND if the military brass were willing to violate their oaths of office and the Constitution and turn against the Feds in support of the states, then the government could fall, and in its place would be a military dictatorship.

Not exactly the revolution all those folks had in mind.
edit on 1/14/2013 by schuyler because: grevious spelling issues



reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:43 PM by Kryties
reply to post by redmage



You still trying? As much as you detest it this thread, and our opinions, aren't going anywhere.

Sorry to burst your little bubble.


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:50 PM by xedocodex
Originally posted by redmage
reply to
post by Kryties



There is nothing reasonable or logical about asking people to break forum rules, and break laws by posting direct threats against the lives of "named" individuals and/or groups/agencies.


Then they should ban all talk/discussion of revolution and civil war.

Because for most logical people, when someone says a Revolution or Civil War is close to starting, the next question is "against who?"


reply posted on 14-1-2013 @ 04:52 PM by Kryties
reply to post by schuyler



Good answer mate, thank you for taking the time to actually respond with an intelligent and well thought out post.

Star for you.
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