Should Churchill be seen as a warmonger and partial escalator of WW2?

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posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by OpenSky
 



In reality, if Britain had been taken, it would still be British although a puppet state the very least


Sounds familiar.




posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:24 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by ConservativeAwakening
 


I don't know about Churchill but you Britons ARE seen as traitors in the eyes of the Australians.

what are you on about open sky ?


After our sacrifices made for Britain, when we needed your help you spat in our faces.


How old are you ? Are you still at school ? No offence but you sound as if you have no understanding about WW2 or WW1 and it sounds like you are just repeating without understanding what others have said.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:26 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by Rob37n
reply to post by OpenSky
 


When the battle for Australia began the Battle for Britain had already ended, you were not under siege at this point in time like we were. As well, the Americans hadn't even joined the conflict yet, so it was Australia who was having to take on the Imperial Empire.
The British basically said "f*ck you Australia, we don't give a sh*t about your sacrifices so good luck without our help", and ALLOWED Singapore to fall taking 15 thousand Australians prisoner (none of which will survive).
At this point in time, Australia had no armed forces left, our armies were fighting the Germans in North Africa. So instead, untrained militia were raised to fight off invasion.
By the time the Americans became involved the Battle for Australia was over, and the Aussies had BY THEMSELVES pushed the Japs from New Guinea.
Like I said previously, we sent our men to fight and die for Britain, we were with you during the Battle for Britain as the RAAF helped defend YOUR skies.
But when it came to return the favour, you just upped and left us naked...



The Battle for Australia ? That is made up = the Japanese did not invade Australia, they thought about it but they did, this term refers to battles clos eto Australia.

Britain could not have come to Australia's aid at this time even if they wanted to - they were fighting for their very survival. The battle of Britain refers to an aerial battle, only one part of the war that Britain was up to her neck in.

You clearly have no understanding of the situation Britain was in during those perilous years, her troops were in Europe, Africa and the middle East and in Asia, yes also Singapore. The cities were being bombed daily, London, Plymouth Hull, and many others were flattened, Australia was not flattened by German bombs at all !!!!

The British thought their island was going to be invaded and her citizens murdered and enslaved.

Singapore was lost due to the invasion of japan via lond not sea as expected, Lt Gen Percival surrendered prematurely .. he thought he was saving lives by doing this.

The 80,000 who were taken prisoners also included British personnel as well as Australian and Indians - who were a long way from home BTW.

The enslavement happened anyway and Britain lost in the long run circa 2013 but that is another story.

Your assertions are an insult to the Brave Australians who fought in WW2 and WW1 and to the British fighting men and their allies.



The Battle for Australia was a very real event, when the Australian territory of New Guinea was invaded, the Japanese sent an army to cross the Owen Stanley Ranges to capture Port Moresby. If Port Moresby fell, then it would essentially mean the end for Australia as it had NO army left, no navy, and hardly any airforce.
Port Moresby was the last defence of Australia, its capture would allow the Japanese to take the entire East coast, not to mention that the waters off Australia were already controlled by the Japanese.

In other words, the fight at Kokoda was the last effort to save Australia from invasion, although it was already under attack from the air and sea bombardment. Hence, the Battle FOR Australia, note the word FOR!!!
This is important, it was not the Battle OF Australia, but the Battle FOR Australia. There is a big difference.

Also note, if the Germans took Britain they would have enslaved you but they wouldn't have exterminated you as was the plan of the Japanese.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:31 AM
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reply to post by OpenSky
 


Oh thats Ok then .. hello fellow Britons we would have ONLY been enslaved by Hitler not exterminated, so OpenSKy thinks, we should not have sent our fathers, sons and grandfathers to be slaughtered in that war, to defend our shores,

i will tell that to my grandfather and greatgrandfathers and great uncles who fought in these wars, I will let my Dad's aunty who was murdered by a bomb in the Blitz in London know.

I will let my great grandfathers brother killed in France know .....

Gosh have you thought about working as an MP when you leave school Open sky ?
edit on 17-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by OpenSky
 


Oh thats Ok then .. hello fellow Britons we would have ONLY been enslaved by Hitler not exterminated, so OpenSKy thinks, we should not have sent our fathers, sons and grandfathers to be slaughtered in that war, to defend our shores,

i will tell that to my grandfather and greatgrandfathers and great uncles who fought in these wars, I will let my Dad's aunty who was murdered by a bomb in the Blitz in London know.

I will let my great grandfathers brother killed in France know .....

Gosh have you thought about working as an MP when you leave school Open sky ?
edit on 17-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)


Ignorance is bliss with this one,

I'll state again, Britain was NOT under threat of invasion when the Battle for Australia began, it was already over, we sent you help to defend your shores, WHERE WAS OURS!!!??



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by OpenSky
 


I'll state again, Britain was NOT under threat of invasion when the Battle for Australia began, it was already over, we sent you help to defend your shores, WHERE WAS OURS!!!??


Open Sky I know now you are trolling - I ask you again are you still at school. I am guessing you are.

I am feeling very angry at your insults towards the British people at this time, because to me it is personal - It is personal because my family fought in both wars and YOU are calling them traitors and cowards.

You are speaking with a total lack of knowledge and you need to read about the perilous position Britain was in in WW2,

I am guessing your family did not fight in the war and that you are a new Australian ? So you are just spouting off in order to inflame people ? Am I right?



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:52 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by OpenSky
 


I'll state again, Britain was NOT under threat of invasion when the Battle for Australia began, it was already over, we sent you help to defend your shores, WHERE WAS OURS!!!??


Open Sky I know now you are trolling - I ask you again are you still at school. I am guessing you are.

I am feeling very angry at your insults towards the British people at this time, because to me it is personal - It is personal because my family fought in both wars and YOU are calling them traitors and cowards.

You are speaking with a total lack of knowledge and you need to read about the perilous position Britain was in in WW2,

I am guessing your family did not fight in the war and that you are a new Australian ? So you are just spouting off in order to inflame people ? Am I right?


Stop trying to play the victim, the truth is we sent you help (plus our sacrifice made for you in WW1), then when WE needed help you turned around and said "eff off we're not helping you".

Britain and the British people ABANDONED Australia, there is no other wa to describe it. You surrendered Singapore which put Australia into the fight for its life. Yet all you can say is, "oh that never happenend", and yet you think what I'm saying is offensive. At least I acknowledge the Battle of Britain!!!!

Actually I am 20, a total history buff, and am of Polish, English, Irish, Croat, and German ancestry.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:54 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by HelenConway
reply to post by OpenSky
 


I'll state again, Britain was NOT under threat of invasion when the Battle for Australia began, it was already over, we sent you help to defend your shores, WHERE WAS OURS!!!??


Open Sky I know now you are trolling - I ask you again are you still at school. I am guessing you are.

I am feeling very angry at your insults towards the British people at this time, because to me it is personal - It is personal because my family fought in both wars and YOU are calling them traitors and cowards.

You are speaking with a total lack of knowledge and you need to read about the perilous position Britain was in in WW2,

I am guessing your family did not fight in the war and that you are a new Australian ? So you are just spouting off in order to inflame people ? Am I right?


Stop trying to play the victim, the truth is we sent you help (plus our sacrifice made for you in WW1), then when WE needed help you turned around and said "eff off we're not helping you".

Britain and the British people ABANDONED Australia, there is no other wa to describe it. You surrendered Singapore which put Australia into the fight for its life. Yet all you can say is, "oh that never happenend", and yet you think what I'm saying is offensive. At least I acknowledge the Battle of Britain!!!!

Actually I am 20, a total history buff, and am of Polish, English, Irish, Croat, and German ancestry.


OK well that explains it, You are offensive but your are very uninformed too,



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:54 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


Actually my grandfather was a Polish man who was imprisoned into the Nazi concentration camps, when the camp was liberated by the Americans they gave him the option of either migrating to America or Australia and he chose Australia.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 07:56 AM
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reply to post by HelenConway
 


In what way am I uninformed?



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:00 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by HelenConway
 


Actually my grandfather was a Polish man who was imprisoned into the Nazi concentration camps, when the camp was liberated by the Americans they gave him the option of either migrating to America or Australia and he chose Australia.


I am sure your grandfather would be proud of you, especially when you are calling his liberators cowards... I am sure he was not a Nazi fan like you,

If it was not for the cowardly British and her allies the americans where would he be now - where would you be ?

Lucky that the cowards fought the Germans.





..
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edit on 17-1-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by HelenConway

Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by HelenConway
 


Actually my grandfather was a Polish man who was imprisoned into the Nazi concentration camps, when the camp was liberated by the Americans they gave him the option of either migrating to America or Australia and he chose Australia.

I am sure your grandfather would be proud of you, especially when you are calling his liberators cowards... I am sure he was not a Nazi fan like you,



..
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????

Wha---?
When did I call Americans cowards? Or even British cowards? I said you abandoned Australia, but I never said either were 'cowards', now your just putting words in my mouth.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:04 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by HelenConway
 


In what way am I uninformed?


British troops and capital ships were sent to Singapore. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse, which could be ill-afforded, were both sunk.

Turning to the Australian mainland this article, at para 3, indicates British Spitfire pilots were involved in the air defence of Darwin and I have only just begun to look into this :-

www.vrb.gov.au...



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:08 AM
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Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by HelenConway
 


In what way am I uninformed?


British troops and capital ships were sent to Singapore. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse, which could be ill-afforded, were both sunk.

Turning to the Australian mainland this article, at para 3, indicates British Spitfire pilots were involved in the air defence of Darwin and I have only just begun to look into this :-

www.vrb.gov.au...


No the Prince of Wales and Repulse were stationed at Singapore to begin with, when they were sunk Britain surrendered Singapore which then led to the Battle for Australia.

Prime Minister of Australia, John Curtin - "The fall of Dunkirk led to the Battle of Britain, and like that the Fall of Singapore was Australia's Dunkirk, which will lead to the Battle for Australia"



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:15 AM
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reply to post by OpenSky
 


Most historians agree that there was no "Battle for Australia". The Battle for Australia was a series of battles against the Japanese, and there was no organized campaign. Operation Mo was abandoned after the Battle of the Coral Sea.

Even if Britain had wanted to send troops, there was no way that they could. The US was barely hanging on in the Pacific at the times of these events, as they were all in 1941/42 when the Pacific Fleet was still reeling from losses at Pearl Harbor, the Philippines, Wake Island and others. The British 6th and 7th Divisions were in Australia during the Kokoda Track Campaign, with the 6th Division returning to Australia in August of 1942, from Ceylon.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:16 AM
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reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Yes I agree, the British centric historians don't want the truth released.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:26 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky

Originally posted by Alfie1

Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by HelenConway
 


In what way am I uninformed?


British troops and capital ships were sent to Singapore. The Prince of Wales and the Repulse, which could be ill-afforded, were both sunk.

Turning to the Australian mainland this article, at para 3, indicates British Spitfire pilots were involved in the air defence of Darwin and I have only just begun to look into this :-

www.vrb.gov.au...


No the Prince of Wales and Repulse were stationed at Singapore to begin with, when they were sunk Britain surrendered Singapore which then led to the Battle for Australia.

Prime Minister of Australia, John Curtin - "The fall of Dunkirk led to the Battle of Britain, and like that the Fall of Singapore was Australia's Dunkirk, which will lead to the Battle for Australia"


The Prince of Wales and Repulse, together with various destroyers, only arrived in Singapore on 2 December and they were both sunk on 10 December so its pretty disingenous to suggest thay had been stationed there some time.

I note that you ignored the British Spitfires over Darwin.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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reply to post by Alfie1
 


Thats because there were no British spitfires over Darwin.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:30 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by Zaphod58
 


Yes I agree, the British centric historians don't want the truth released.


No offence opensky but you keep referring to 'us' when your family were not even in australia in WW2.
So why are you insinuating that they were ? BTW calling us traitors is the same as calling us cowards.

You should read about the wars and stop trolling.



posted on Jan, 17 2013 @ 08:31 AM
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Originally posted by OpenSky
reply to post by Alfie1
 


Thats because there were no British spitfires over Darwin.

trolling,





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