"I have executive powers over guns..." - It's starting...

reply to post by ausername


I am no afraid of the president my friend or his laws, we have a well established system of laws call the constitution and so far no president have taken the task to change any of the laws, they have tried to amend it but so far the Constitution has remained intact for most part thanks to the supreme court ruling on constitutional issues too many legal ramifications.

Cat and mouse game. My theory is this: they didn't arm the population with assault weapons, for nothing. All they have to do, is turn people against each other, VIOLENTLY; sit back and enjoy the show. They've already conditioned us to betray each other. Having us kill each other, shouldn't be that difficult for them to do. Maybe via a food shortage???. Do you really believe "they" care about policemen or their families, when 5-0 arrives on the scene in riot gear? You see how much they care about our military men and women. They rush them off to fight their wars, under the cloak of "freedom". Freedom my arse!

reply to post by BlowinSmoke


I live in a very pro gun state, the only thing I have seen so far is that all the talks about gun control have bind the people more tightly when it comes to protecting gun rights, here in my neck of the woods, funny that we are considered a southern Baptist strong hold state also, that tells you, when it comes to constitutional rights is not such thing as division base on religion, politics or race.

AT least in my neck of the woods.

Originally posted by marg6043
when it comes to constitutional rights are always bound to be challenged in the supreme court.

And yet while some supreme court judges said that Obamacare, or at least elements of it were unconstitutional, they didn't rule against it. The individual mandate forces people to do something against their will, it forces them to purchase something they may not want or need, and if they don't they have taxes and penalties to pay... etc.

That mandate, in any other context here in the United States of America would be considered the act of a tyrannical government, it is the essence of tyranny.

Apparently Obama's will is stronger than the court.

You ain't seen nothing yet....

Originally posted by ausername

Originally posted by marg6043
when it comes to constitutional rights are always bound to be challenged in the supreme court.

And yet while some supreme court judges said that Obamacare, or at least elements of it were unconstitutional, they didn't rule against it. The individual mandate forces people to do something against their will, it forces them to purchase something they may not want or need, and if they don't they have taxes and penalties to pay... etc.

That mandate, in any other context here in the United States of America would be considered the act of a tyrannical government, it is the essence of tyranny.

Apparently Obama's will is stronger than the court.

You ain't seen nothing yet....

The Roberts Court upheld Obama's mandate and made him smile like an idiot while they cut his legs clear out from under him by legally allowing states to outright reject participation in any part of it. It needs the nation together to work financially and as a system. If the Roberts court hadn't backhanded Obama with that "victory", states like mine, Texas and others couldn't have all but if not outright made the Affordable Care Act provisions a violation of state law.

He only thought he won something there.....All he won was the death of his entire program in a different and somewhat delayed form. It's more final this way than a defeat in the court would have been. Congress would have immediately set to re-writing a defeat. Crazy like foxes those Supremes can be.

reply to post by ausername


That issue is not far from over, see the Supreme court can only take cases of acting laws, when they took the constitutionality of Obamacare it was not enforced yet and it was only base on the comerce clause, a different issue, that was stroke down as Obamacare have to be considered a Tax to be enforced, as you know and also they voted in favor of states rights to opposed the Obamacare without getting penalized by the federal government.

It is much more about the Supreme Court decisions that people do not understand fully.

You will hear more about constitutional issues in obamacare soon enough.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


IF we make it to January 1, 2014 when the mandate actually kicks in, that is when the real battle will begin.

It isn't over 'till it's over.

reply to post by ausername


The problem with the mandate is that the supreme court made clear that it can not be a mandate but a tax, now is up to Obama to explain how he is to do that, but we know for sure that the taxes are coming and by the end of this year we will see it, now enforcing the tax is the problem as it can not be mandated.

Supreme court really play a good one on Obamacare.

Was doing a little research into this and though I am not completely finished, there are a few things people are not quite correct about

The German gun controls were dictated to Germany in 1919 with the Treaty of Versailles at the end of WW1. Gun controls started easing in the late early 1930's and it was Hitler who softened the gun control regulations even more for registered members of the Nazi party.

Yes, he did prevent the Jews and others from participating in these things...but it was not an across the board ban like so many people are saying.

I have a lot more research to do but many-many people are talking about things they only think they know.

I am a huge fan or the Constitution and the Second Amendment...but I am also a huge fan and student of history...lets get our facts straight folks....

So, let's break this down.
We have a government who gives guns to Mexican drug lords and these same governmental officials have decided that they need to remove guns from the hands of American citizens?
I'd like them to answer this question:
How are we supposed to defend ourselves from the Mexican drug lords they've armed?

Also, we have a government who believes that no other countries should have nuclear technology except them.
These are the geniuses who have built nuclear power plants along the New Madrid Fault Line.
This is the same government who decided to remove the earthquake sensors from the nuclear power plant in Louisa, Virginia to save money. Then, numerous earthquakes shook this region.
I'd like to know:
Why would anyone in their right mind decide to place nuclear power plants directly up and down an earthquake prone zone?
How does removing a safety mechanism that has already been installed save money?

In conclusion:
Mad men are trying to control us. They are morons who are not capable of making sound decisions.
We are all at risk when these morons are arming dangerous men across our borders and want us disarmed.
We are all at risk as long as they're more worried about Americans having guns and not spending money to correct the nuclear threat in our country.


FACT: Nuclear reactions have killed and maimed more people than guns.
FACT: The American government has its priorities all wrong.

It's beginning...

No good will come from this...

Biden: W.H. readies 19 executive actions on guns

The White House has identified 19 executive actions for President Barack Obama to move unilaterally on gun control, Vice President Joe Biden told a group of House Democrats on Monday, the administration’s first definitive statements about its response to last month’s mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

Later this week, Obama will formally announce his proposals to reduce gun violence, which are expected to include renewal of the assault weapons ban, universal background checks and prohibition of high-capacity magazine clips. But Biden, who has been leading Obama’s task force on the response, spent two hours briefing a small group of sympathetic House Democrats on the road ahead in the latest White House outreach to invested groups.

Read more: www.politico.com...

In response....

GOP congressman threatens impeachment if Obama uses executive action for gun control

Texas Republican Rep. Steve Stockman threatened Monday afternoon that he would file articles of impeachment against President Barack Obama if he institutes gun control measures with an executive order.

Stockman warned that such executive orders would be “unconstitutional” and “infringe on our constitutionally-protected right to keep and bear arms.” (RELATED: Levin: If Obama sidesteps Congress on debt ceiling, ‘no choice’ but impeachment)

Read more: dailycaller.com...

This just in.... from NY...

NY Senate passes 'landmark' gun control laws

ALBANY, N.Y. — New York's Senate where Republicans hold strong sway has approved what supporters say will be the toughest gun laws in the nation.

Sen. Jeffrey Klein (KLINE), who sponsored the law with bipartisan support, praised his co-leader, Senate Republican leader Dean Skelos and the Democratic conference.

Senate Republicans have opposed similar measures in past years when they solely controlled the Senate.

Klein says the bill isn't about taking the rights away from any legal gun owner.

The bill targets assault rifles, high-capacity clips of ammunition and requires reports of the mentally ill who pose a threat to others with illegal guns.

The vote passed 43-18 in the Senate thanks to a strong Democratic vote.

The Democrat-led Assembly is expected to easily pass the measure.

Originally posted by ausername
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

IF we make it to January 1, 2014 when the mandate actually kicks in, that is when the real battle will begin.

It isn't over 'till it's over.

I finally found a quick list for people to actually see for what states passed in this past election. You're right that this will bring the ultimate fights.....as these are state laws and in our case, a state Constitutional Amendment.

Affordable Care Act:

Alabama Health Care Amendment, Amendment 6: Approved 59.52% to 40.48% (prohibits mandatory participation in any health care system)

Florida Health Care Amendment, Amendment 1: Defeated 51.46% to 48.54% (required 60% support to pass) (would have prohibited passing laws compelling the purchase of health insurance)

Missouri Health Care Exchange Question, Proposition E: Approved 61.8% to 38.2% (“prohibit[s] the Governor or any state agency, from establishing or operating state-based health insurance exchanges unless authorized by a vote of the people or the legislature”)

Montana Health Care Measure, LR-122: Approved 66.83% to 33.17% (prohibits “the state or federal government from mandating the purchase of health insurance coverage or imposing penalties for decisions related to the purchase of health insurance coverage”)

Wyoming Health Care Amendment, Amendment A: Approved 76.98% to 23.02% (stating that “the right to make health care decisions is reserved to the citizens of the state of Wyoming”)

Source

Just a note to my fellow Americans. ^^^ THIS is why elections matter. Not the National so much where they will spend whatever it takes to buy the outcome ... naww.. it matters for the 50 state houses and the countless individuals who make them up. Too many to rig and too close to home to go unnoticed, IMO.

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
NO president has the power to issue executive orders to remove constitutional rights. Just because Obama claims he can doesnt make it so. Who the hell does he think he is? How much more does he have to prove his anti-constitutional and anti-american extremism before people open their eyes?

I just started reading this thread, but I had to stop at your statement and make a comment.

The Patriot Act gives the President the power to enact a EO, and give control to the DHS, in order to "protect the citizens of the US." The DHS determines, then, that guns harm citizens, and then by their crede, illegal. The Patriot Act gave unilateral control to the DHS, and they, not the President, decides. A subtle change of power, by-passing the 2nd, because "protection" goes beyond our "rights".

The President is fulfilling his duties of office by "protecting" the citizens of the US, and 9/11 gave rise to the Patriot Act, which is what is being used here. Protection is the keyword.

Rights? You have to give them up, in order for the Government to protect you.

Don't you guys get it yet? The Department of Homeland Security can't have citizens with guns. They are providing you with security, and if you have a gun, you MAYBE a domestic terrorist. Give up your gun. Let the DHS protect you.

Rant off. Going to read the rest of the thread.

reply to post by flyandi

Excellent first thread. Yes Obama is talking like he has the authority to do whatever he wants. And he does. if the right conditions arise he can suspend the laws of the land and enact any "executive orders" he sees fit. Declaring an emergency is all it will take. That was disturbing the way he talks about his power over the constitution. He already stated where he stands before in here:


The constitution is blind and flawed and outdated according to him.

Originally posted by Asktheanimals
All I know is that this is the breaking point for this nation. If we do not stand up for our rights they will be gone. PERIOD, no if's, and's or but's.........they fully intend on gutting the 2nd Amendment, piecemeal if necessary and they will use every last trick in the book to do it. They will ban import and production of certain guns and accessories, they will make ammo so expensive nobody can afford to shoot, they will make owning guns or buying them a bureaucratic nightmare and prohibitively expensive. They will use mandatory mental health screenings to deny ownership and revoke one's rights. They might even demand RFID built in to any new guns.
If they see public interest waning they will up the ante - more shootings, false flags and perhaps even a false flag attempt to hurt the POTUS (narrowly avoided of course) and blame it on right-wing militia types. After some of the videos like the one with the bald guy that runs the gun training school it wouldn't be hard to believe someone might take a potshot either.
They're all in on this one. It's do or die as the economy sputters to a halt and the dollar prepares to crash. They feel they must have absolute control before it does. Be ready for anything is all I can say. We're living in historical times though we don't realize it yet.

Paranoid much?

Yet, 100% agreed. Be prepared, people. It's coming.

Originally posted by Ghost375

Originally posted by lobotomizemecapin
NO president has the power to issue executive orders to remove constitutional rights. Just because Obama claims he can doesnt make it so. Who the hell does he think he is? How much more does he have to prove his anti-constitutional and anti-american extremism before people open their eyes?

He's not threatening to remove any constitutional rights....He's not threatening to confiscate guns.

He obviously had a team of lawyers analyze the laws and some things are able to be done through executive order. The things are probably things such as require longer background checks, and a delay in purchasing guns. If you think he is saying he has the authority to confiscate people's guns, you're not being rational and just reading what you want to read.

Look, he's not going to do anything unconstitutional, especially with an issue as big as gun control. Maybe you should learn about what the constitution allows before accusing him of being anti-constitutional....the constitution is NOT some fluffy duffy document that gives everyone peace and freedom. It gives our government the right to go into any country and kill whomever they want. It gives them the authority to do whatever they want to if there's a national security threat. These are just 2 things that were in the ORIGINAL constitution.

On a side note, it doesn't matter at all how you interpret the constitution, it only matters how the supreme court interprets it.

And before you begin....I'm pro gun, pro constitution(but there obviously need to be updates), and especially pro-rationality. The most that will come out of any legislation on gun control is a semi-auto weapons ban. That's it. If you think they will confiscate all guns, you are being delusional. They aren't going to confiscate all guns and install socialism, I don't care how many times you hear it on Fox News.

edit on 14-1-2013 by Ghost375 because: (no reason given)

Where were you after 9/11, and the passing of the Patriot Act? TSA agents to "protect" airline passengers, and the DHS to "protect" every US citizen. Yes, the DHS is in control. They supercede anything remotely related to protecting US citizens, the 2nd included, and guns harm US citizens. Ergo, guns fall within their realm of control. All it takes is an EO to trade it over.

Not saying nothing more right now, should be obvious.

To true, friend. Many just ignore the fact that at least a 150 million were killed as a direct result of tyranical goverment in the 20th century alone. We had Hitler with his 50 million toll, Stalin killed 30+ million and even more by some accounts. Pol Pot and lots of other Genocides!

This is really no joke!

Originally posted by flyandi

President Obama just said in a Press Conference that he will use his "executive" powers to introduce gun control measures... well Hitler did the same thing in 1938 and we all know how that ended.

Where to start? Bush and the Patriot Act? Searches and wiretaps without warrants. People being held at Guantanamo Bay for an indefinite amount of time without trials or legal representation.

When a president is handed a pile of dung to sort out, it's kind of hard to blame him for the pile of dung's origins

Here's a Yahoo Answer that outlines cons of the Patriot Act quite well, if unreferenced. (And Bush shredded several constitutional amendements.)

answers.yahoo.com...

Glossing over the Bush legacy and blaming Obama for all of the woes with society seems short-sighted and insulated.

I wouldn't worry too much about this administration. if it gets too far out of hand, i'm sure a single artillery response will silence the matter indefinitely. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if some old retired naval gunners haven't been sited in on that target for 30 years, just waiting for the day, for when We The People are called to defend

You don't seem to understand, I cannot fault you for it because you were not born here, but try to understand. Guns don't make people more free or more happy. Seeing one's children happy and playing and not being mowed down by a machine gun wielding nut makes you happy. Obama is a servant of the people. 53% of us voted him in. About that many right now are begging him to do something about this horrible gun violence. We are begging him or someone to prevent people from having military grade weaponry. That's all. And by the way, Hitler did not take anyone's guns. He actually relaxed the gun laws for Germans. And by the end of the war all Germans were bearing arms and many, including children (Like the recent Pope, who was in the Hitler Youth), were shooting at Americans and Russians with their guns. It still did not save them. Hitler prevented the Jews from owning guns, and stores, and bicycles, and jewelry, and everything else. And we stood by and watched him do it, and we refused to allow refugee Jews into our country when he tried to ship them here. We Americans did not like Jews either. So we remained blind to the problem until we stumbled on the camps.

No one here is going to get on a cattle car now and ride to a "new place where you can have a job." That's what the Germans told to the Jews. It was all lies. Now we know the lies, we won't fall for it. Now we know that machine guns will not save us from "tyranny" and are instead being used to hurt children and adults, we need to become a little more civilized and make sure no one has access to these guns. If Obama has to make that call that is why we hired him. There is nothing to be afraid of. You just won't be able to buy your next Bushmaster or thirty round clip at Walmart.

There's way too much paranoia coming from the NRA and gun nuts. They are talking revolution and war against their own nation. They didn't do that when the Thompson Sub Machine gun was outlawed. Nor did they do that when regular folks couldn't buy a Gattling gun, or a water cooled .50 caliber machine gun. The NRA supported the law which kept anyone from carrying weapons openly, when it was the Black Panthers and other Radical Leftists carrying the guns. They wanted a revolution too. And they were hurting innocent people as well. The government has ALWAYS made certain weapons illegal to own, purchase or smuggle, etc. Now it's a free for all with a lot of freaks buying real .50 caliber jeep mounted machine guns, rocket launchers, grenade launchers, etc. And in my opinion, it is time we stopped allowing them to do that unless they are a well regimented and disciplined STATE militia.

So no, no one should be scared. This is NOT Europe. But I for one will NOT see another one of these mass shootings and sit around telling the devastated parents that it was the shooter's right to own those lethal weapons of mass destruction.