reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
No, that is not my point in the least. My point is that I don't believe the media to be a trustworthy source in cases such as these; since we have
seen in the past that they are prone to not investigate such matters thoroughly. My distrust of media is perfectly justified... Please take some
time to read The Communications Act of 1934, 47 U.S.C. § 151 et seq. Better yet, read how it is being used
today. The media does not
simply print whatever it wants; tho that may be something many believe...
If a matter is deemed as "national security"; or any other matter of governmental secrecy, they are able to directly contravene to stop this
information from reaching the public. If you think that the media would just openly present the truth about a matter such as this; then you are
blissfully unaware of how things work.
Once again, no historical evidence has been shown; just hearsay.
SEAL Team Six Helicopter Crash: Let’s Debunk a Myth…., page 3
reply posted on 3-2-2013 @ 05:33 AM by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by 007Polytoks
I read your source, it does not talk about media censorship and it only applies after June 2012 almost a year after this crash. I am not going to go and read the 1934 act sorry but I just don’t have the time. Furthermore it only applies to American and does not account for the fact that the world media all broadly agree with the narrative of my OP.
As I have said before, according to the press and government only 15 members of DEVGRU were killed on that helicopter and 24 took part in Neptune Spear so why not kill the other 9 guys just isn’t logical to assume there is a conspiracy.
There is no possible way of debunking this any further with out actually being on the ground when the helicopter crashed and having true first hand knowledge.
What I have to say is not hearsay, it can be substantiated by multiple sources and has not been proven to be incorrect as such it is fact not hearsay
I read your source, it does not talk about media censorship and it only applies after June 2012 almost a year after this crash. I am not going to go and read the 1934 act sorry but I just don’t have the time. Furthermore it only applies to American and does not account for the fact that the world media all broadly agree with the narrative of my OP.
As I have said before, according to the press and government only 15 members of DEVGRU were killed on that helicopter and 24 took part in Neptune Spear so why not kill the other 9 guys just isn’t logical to assume there is a conspiracy.
There is no possible way of debunking this any further with out actually being on the ground when the helicopter crashed and having true first hand knowledge.
What I have to say is not hearsay, it can be substantiated by multiple sources and has not been proven to be incorrect as such it is fact not hearsay
reply posted on 5-2-2013 @ 12:35 PM by 007Polytoks
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
If you would have read the article, you would have noticed much of the things he enacted were simply an expansion of old laws. However, this is just one of the systems that is in place to censor the news-media; there is also systems in place such as ECHELON a "signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network". The U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States are all signatory's.
These are only two of the many systems in place; during, and after WW2, U.S. intelligence seized a huge portion of the media sector; including such big name company's as Disney (which was converted into a war-time propaganda center). During the Cold War they modernized, and changed these centers to distribute media in a method that did not illustrate its clear beginning in the U.S. military's hands.
The media is NOT allowed to distribute things which are matters of "national security"; this was readily demonstrated with the Bradly Manning case, who was held without trial for 1,000 days+, and the institution that distributed this material (Wikileaks) was targeted on a massive scale. The U.S. went as far as to try to extradite a private citizen of another country for helping to support this whistle blowing activity. All the while none of this material was even close to truly being a matter of national security... So what do you think they would do to try to prevent something as damaging as knowing whether or not these SEALS where the same one's that killed Bin Laden (which I don't personally believe even happened).
Actually it is hearsay...
If you would have read the article, you would have noticed much of the things he enacted were simply an expansion of old laws. However, this is just one of the systems that is in place to censor the news-media; there is also systems in place such as ECHELON a "signals intelligence (SIGINT) collection and analysis network". The U.K., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and the United States are all signatory's.
These are only two of the many systems in place; during, and after WW2, U.S. intelligence seized a huge portion of the media sector; including such big name company's as Disney (which was converted into a war-time propaganda center). During the Cold War they modernized, and changed these centers to distribute media in a method that did not illustrate its clear beginning in the U.S. military's hands.
The media is NOT allowed to distribute things which are matters of "national security"; this was readily demonstrated with the Bradly Manning case, who was held without trial for 1,000 days+, and the institution that distributed this material (Wikileaks) was targeted on a massive scale. The U.S. went as far as to try to extradite a private citizen of another country for helping to support this whistle blowing activity. All the while none of this material was even close to truly being a matter of national security... So what do you think they would do to try to prevent something as damaging as knowing whether or not these SEALS where the same one's that killed Bin Laden (which I don't personally believe even happened).
Actually it is hearsay...
Hearsay is information gathered by one person from another person concerning some event, condition, or thing of which the first person had no direct experience.
reply posted on 6-2-2013 @ 09:43 AM by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by 007Polytoks
“ECHELON does not exist that is just hearsay on your part and you can’t prove it exists”
You see I can do the exact same with your claims, doesn’t make it true however to say that ECHELON does not exist (I believe it does I read a book on it a while ago) although the critique that you only believe that because someone else told you still stands. The point is that there is enough publically available information for a multitude of different sources that points to ECHELON existing and as such it is possible to say that yes, it does exist and is not just hearsay. As such I can say for a fact that yes ECHELON does exist with an 85-90% certainty.
This helicopter crash is the same thing, sure if there was only say one source that said the SEALs on the helicopter did not take part in Neptune spear then ok you could call it hearsay. However when there are multiple sources all saying the same thing and logic also points to the a different group of Seals being killed in addition to the fact there have not been any sources to claim otherwise we can now say with a similar degree of certainty (about 95%) that the Seals killed on that helicopter did not take part in Neptune Spear.
The media is allowed to write about matters of national security, Wikileaks is a perfect example without it for instance we would never have known about Task Force 373. Wikileaks is a debate for another time but it does prove that if the information does become available the press will publish it particularly if it is in the public domain.
Another crash that is comparable to the crash of “Extortion 17” is one that took place during “Operation Red Wings” were a number of SEALs (not DEVGRU) were killed in a Chinook crash. There was no conspiracy regarding that crash. The only reason Extortion 17 is different is because of the timing and that DEVGRU happened to be in the limelight at the time.
“ECHELON does not exist that is just hearsay on your part and you can’t prove it exists”
You see I can do the exact same with your claims, doesn’t make it true however to say that ECHELON does not exist (I believe it does I read a book on it a while ago) although the critique that you only believe that because someone else told you still stands. The point is that there is enough publically available information for a multitude of different sources that points to ECHELON existing and as such it is possible to say that yes, it does exist and is not just hearsay. As such I can say for a fact that yes ECHELON does exist with an 85-90% certainty.
This helicopter crash is the same thing, sure if there was only say one source that said the SEALs on the helicopter did not take part in Neptune spear then ok you could call it hearsay. However when there are multiple sources all saying the same thing and logic also points to the a different group of Seals being killed in addition to the fact there have not been any sources to claim otherwise we can now say with a similar degree of certainty (about 95%) that the Seals killed on that helicopter did not take part in Neptune Spear.
The media is allowed to write about matters of national security, Wikileaks is a perfect example without it for instance we would never have known about Task Force 373. Wikileaks is a debate for another time but it does prove that if the information does become available the press will publish it particularly if it is in the public domain.
Another crash that is comparable to the crash of “Extortion 17” is one that took place during “Operation Red Wings” were a number of SEALs (not DEVGRU) were killed in a Chinook crash. There was no conspiracy regarding that crash. The only reason Extortion 17 is different is because of the timing and that DEVGRU happened to be in the limelight at the time.
reply posted on 12-2-2013 @ 04:09 PM by 007Polytoks
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Except; unlike your claim which comes from media sources which have been proven to have lied in the past.... Mine comes from the "European Parliament's Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System". Not to mention its backed up by several sources, and none with any reason to lie about this (unlike your sources). My point was entirely that your sources HAVE an agenda to serve; where as the in the case of ECHELON them investigating it directly contradicts any motive, and thereby is a-lot more likely to be authentic.
The difference between the sources used to confirm the existence of ECHELON are numerous, and have not been caught red handed lying in the past; nor have as basis for hiding the truth. If anything these organizations are putting their lives in danger by exposing this spy infrastructure.... Where as the media outlets, and the SEAL who you use as your source; are if anything protecting their lives by not stating the truth.
How is Wikileaks "a perfect example"?????? They had their funding cut by the majority of payment company's, donations were cutoff, one of their leads was arrested on trumped up charges; and they had some of their whistle-blowers arrested, and held without trial for months. Wikileaks is NOT a solely "American" press, and unless you are using them as a source for your claims in this topic, then I fail to see how this is relevent. Unlike the source you used, Wikileaks is independent; its not owned by a fortune 500 company (like ABC news).
Its like comparing the journalistic integrity on reporting the Iraq war of Democracy Now, to Fox News...
ABC news is not even in the same league as Wikileaks as far as real journalism is concerned.
Except; unlike your claim which comes from media sources which have been proven to have lied in the past.... Mine comes from the "European Parliament's Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System". Not to mention its backed up by several sources, and none with any reason to lie about this (unlike your sources). My point was entirely that your sources HAVE an agenda to serve; where as the in the case of ECHELON them investigating it directly contradicts any motive, and thereby is a-lot more likely to be authentic.
The difference between the sources used to confirm the existence of ECHELON are numerous, and have not been caught red handed lying in the past; nor have as basis for hiding the truth. If anything these organizations are putting their lives in danger by exposing this spy infrastructure.... Where as the media outlets, and the SEAL who you use as your source; are if anything protecting their lives by not stating the truth.
How is Wikileaks "a perfect example"?????? They had their funding cut by the majority of payment company's, donations were cutoff, one of their leads was arrested on trumped up charges; and they had some of their whistle-blowers arrested, and held without trial for months. Wikileaks is NOT a solely "American" press, and unless you are using them as a source for your claims in this topic, then I fail to see how this is relevent. Unlike the source you used, Wikileaks is independent; its not owned by a fortune 500 company (like ABC news).
Its like comparing the journalistic integrity on reporting the Iraq war of Democracy Now, to Fox News...
ABC news is not even in the same league as Wikileaks as far as real journalism is concerned.
reply posted on 15-2-2013 @ 03:05 PM by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by 007Polytoks
You and I clearly disagree on the reliability of my sources so perhaps it would be better if I were to try another approach.
Can you tell me what you think is the true story behind that helicopter crash and what evidence you have to support your viewpoint.
You and I clearly disagree on the reliability of my sources so perhaps it would be better if I were to try another approach.
Can you tell me what you think is the true story behind that helicopter crash and what evidence you have to support your viewpoint.
reply posted on 17-2-2013 @ 08:11 PM by LucidDreamer85
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
the only hole in your argument is if they were re-assigned to a different color group after.
or..
Group colors switch....or ect.....
I like that you stick to facts though.
the only hole in your argument is if they were re-assigned to a different color group after.
or..
Group colors switch....or ect.....
I like that you stick to facts though.
reply posted on 22-2-2013 @ 11:29 AM by 007Polytoks
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
Quite frankly I have no clue what happened that day; and neither do you.
That is my point. All this speculation on them being part of the Bin Laden raid or not is senseless, because there is no way we can find out for sure. Your claims of debunking this conspiracy are just as invalid as if I was to claim that this conspiracy was truth. Both of us have no real insight into what happened that day.
The best thing is to push you elected representative for a congressional hearing on the subject, to try to get some true transparency on this matter. However, I know that even that is unlikely to bring about real results, and freedom of information acts have been denied in the past on less sensitive topics.
Quite frankly I have no clue what happened that day; and neither do you.
That is my point. All this speculation on them being part of the Bin Laden raid or not is senseless, because there is no way we can find out for sure. Your claims of debunking this conspiracy are just as invalid as if I was to claim that this conspiracy was truth. Both of us have no real insight into what happened that day.
The best thing is to push you elected representative for a congressional hearing on the subject, to try to get some true transparency on this matter. However, I know that even that is unlikely to bring about real results, and freedom of information acts have been denied in the past on less sensitive topics.
reply posted on 14-5-2013 @ 08:30 PM by callsignextortion
reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
First I'd like to thank you for your post. It's pretty spot on. Over the last few days since the Vaughn family had their press conference, along with some other family members, I sat back in utter disgust with the conspiracy theories that were out there. At first I was angry about the things that were being said, then I just felt sorry for all of them.
Maybe they weren't briefed, or maybe they made themselves forget, but there were five of us flying chalk 2 that night. Call sign Extortion 16, tail #296. I saw the Vaughns on Fox News the other day being interviewed by Megan Kelly. They told America on national tv that we didn't have any cover that night. That simply isn't true. There is truth in the statement they made about us not having an escort. There's a reason we didn't have an escort. Our escort, the two Apaches, were already at the LZ, along with "high flyers" above them. There were plenty of eyes on the LZ. A hadji popped out of a hut and fired off an RPG. It hit the aft rotor system... and well there's no recovering from that.
I will not began to pretend that I know what it is to lose a son or a father. That night the Extortion detachment at FOB Shank lost 31 brothers and an awesome K9 named Bart. I really do feel for the Vaughn family, as well as the other families. This crusade has to stop. I can't stand this president just as much as them, but I won't stain the memory and honor of my brothers to see him fall.
Look I really don't care if anyone believes me or not. I've said my peace.
First I'd like to thank you for your post. It's pretty spot on. Over the last few days since the Vaughn family had their press conference, along with some other family members, I sat back in utter disgust with the conspiracy theories that were out there. At first I was angry about the things that were being said, then I just felt sorry for all of them.
Maybe they weren't briefed, or maybe they made themselves forget, but there were five of us flying chalk 2 that night. Call sign Extortion 16, tail #296. I saw the Vaughns on Fox News the other day being interviewed by Megan Kelly. They told America on national tv that we didn't have any cover that night. That simply isn't true. There is truth in the statement they made about us not having an escort. There's a reason we didn't have an escort. Our escort, the two Apaches, were already at the LZ, along with "high flyers" above them. There were plenty of eyes on the LZ. A hadji popped out of a hut and fired off an RPG. It hit the aft rotor system... and well there's no recovering from that.
I will not began to pretend that I know what it is to lose a son or a father. That night the Extortion detachment at FOB Shank lost 31 brothers and an awesome K9 named Bart. I really do feel for the Vaughn family, as well as the other families. This crusade has to stop. I can't stand this president just as much as them, but I won't stain the memory and honor of my brothers to see him fall.
Look I really don't care if anyone believes me or not. I've said my peace.
edit on 14-5-2013 by callsignextortion because: tag OP
New 9-11 coloring book includes "terrorist" trading cards. Julian Assange is one of them.
Posted 17 days ago with 13 member flags
Posted 17 days ago with 13 member flags
Unconstitutional Abuse of Power - Questioned by Police for Buying Ammo?
Posted 1 days ago with 10 member flags
Posted 1 days ago with 10 member flags
Fox News Outs Navy Seal in Bin Laden Raid - Now Al-Qaeda Websites Vow Revenge
Posted 18 days ago with 9 member flags
Posted 18 days ago with 9 member flags
Afghanistan: Taliban Insurgents Behead 17 Afghans As Punishment For Attending Party, Dancing
Posted 13 days ago with 4 member flags
Posted 13 days ago with 4 member flags
Newest topics, updated in real-time:
Pentagon requests $450 million to maintain and upgrade Guantanamo Bay
US Political Madness: 36 minutes ago
US Political Madness: 36 minutes ago
Amazing Speech from a 9-year-old to Fire Up Protesters Against School Closing.
Education and Media: 1 hours ago
Education and Media: 1 hours ago
Newest topics getting flags, in real-time:
New ObamaGate Scandal; State Department Sold Stingers to Al Queda
Breaking Political News: 11 hours ago, 44 flags
Breaking Political News: 11 hours ago, 44 flags
Officer Threatens To Beat Up Man And Plant Cocaine On Him - Video
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 6 hours ago, 32 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 6 hours ago, 32 flags
Obama: There's no longer time for excuses for black men
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 14 hours ago, 17 flags
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 14 hours ago, 17 flags
Rossi’s E-Cat Cold Fusion Reactor Validated by Third-Party Tests
Science & Technology: 11 hours ago, 13 flags
Science & Technology: 11 hours ago, 13 flags
Newest topics getting replies, in real-time:
May 20, 2013 | Full List of 171 Documented Israeli Cease Fire Violations – Updated
Middle East Issues: 15 hours ago, 121 replies
Middle East Issues: 15 hours ago, 121 replies
New ObamaGate Scandal; State Department Sold Stingers to Al Queda
Breaking Political News: 11 hours ago, 64 replies
Breaking Political News: 11 hours ago, 64 replies
Obama: There's no longer time for excuses for black men
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 14 hours ago, 62 replies
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 14 hours ago, 62 replies
This could be the MOST IMPORTANT thread you have ever read on Ats
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 16 hours ago, 60 replies
Philosophy and Metaphysics: 16 hours ago, 60 replies
Bachmann Once Again Invokes God, Panders To The Religious. Where's The Personal Responsibility?
US Political Madness: 7 hours ago, 56 replies
US Political Madness: 7 hours ago, 56 replies
Preschools (in Australia) may get right to bar unvaccinated children
Medical Issues & Conspiracies: 14 hours ago, 51 replies
Medical Issues & Conspiracies: 14 hours ago, 51 replies
The Above Top Secret Web sites are a
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www2.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.178 seconds
wholly owned social content community of
The Above Network, LLC.
This content community relies on
user-generated content from our member contributors.
The opinions of our members are not those of site ownership
who maintains strict editorial agnosticism and simply provides
a collaborative venue for free expression.
ATS Server: www2.theabovenetwork.com
Header data: 0.002 seconds
Page processed in: 0.178 seconds
