Hollow Point Ammo Political/Legal Issues and Hollow Victories!

Explanation: In these uncertain social and financial upheavalled times and climate the potential for political revolution and or civil war any where in the world is indeed higher than has been in recent decades!

And so I bring to everyones attention the FACT that to use hollow point ammunition if such horror occurs is a WAR CRIME and anybody who does use it regardless of which side they are on ... should face the maximum penalties for those actions ... i.e. the death penalty.

There is no point winning a war if you loose the moral high ground by breaking the laws of war ok!





Expanding bullet: Law [wiki]

The Hague Convention of 1899, Declaration III, prohibits the use in international warfare of bullets which easily expand or flatten in the body, giving as example a bullet with a jacket with incisions or one that does not fully cover the core. This is often incorrectly believed to be prohibited in the Geneva Conventions, but it significantly predates those conventions, and is in fact a continuance of the Declaration of St Petersburg in 1868, which banned exploding projectiles of less than 400 grams.

Until relatively recently, the prohibition on the use of expanding bullets was only applicable to international armed conflicts. The International Committee of the Red Cross's customary international law study contends that customary law now prohibits their use in armed conflicts not of an international character. The adoption of an amendment to Article 8 at the Review Conference of the Rome Statute in Kampala makes the use of expanding bullets in non-international armed conflict a war crime.

Because the Hague convention applies only to the use of expanding bullets in war, the use of expanding rounds remains legal, or even required, in some circumstances. Examples of this are use of appropriately expanding bullets in hunting, where it is desirable to stop the animal quickly either to prevent loss of a game animal, or ensure a humane death of vermin, and in law enforcement or self defence, where quickly neutralizing an aggressor may be needed to prevent further loss of life, or where the bullet must remain inside the target to prevent collateral damage e.g. on an aircraft.

Personal Disclosure: So please ensure you have enough FMJ rounds to combat your own Government forces LEGALLY OK!

Stay legal comrades ok!

Laws of War [wiki]

I did not sign on at the Hague or Geneva Conventions.

I am not held to that agreement.

ETA: I believe if I was forced to battle my own government's representatives, it would not be 'International Warfare' as covered by the Conventions, it would be a civil war, fought inside the borders of my country.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


As the poster above said ....I agree with them.....
Besides LEO's use not only hollow points but, fragmentary rounds to keep from having through and through shots, keeping the guy behind the assailent safe, and innocent bystanders....
If you shoot someone you mean to kill, does that "shot" person care if it was hollow point???
I see where your coming from....but wow...LEO's can't use FMJ's....why should we..

reply to post by butcherguy


Explanation: St*rred!

Thanks for your reply!

Generally I'd agree with what you stated!

But here is the specific thing ... if you have ever voted in a representative democracy, then unfortunatley you have unknowingly signed such things by PROXY!

And you will be held to account!

As should everybody!

Personal Disclosure: The ideal of Law is that it applies to everybody ... no excuses and no exemptions ok!

So please stop squirming about and trying to get away with as much as one can ... the issue isn't about living or dying ... it is about principles ok!

Just be legal and lawful ok!

Here is why ...

During the Hague Convention of 1899, the British delegation attempted to justify the use of the dumdum bullet by pointing to its utility when putting down colonial unrest. Barbara Tuchman writes that, "Developed by the British to stop the rush of fanatical tribesman, the bullets were vigorously defended by Sir John Ardagh against the heated attack of all except the American military delegate, Captain Crozier, whose country was about to make use of them in the Philippines. In warfare against savages, Ardagh explained to an absorbed audience, "men penetrated through and through several times by our latest pattern of small calibre projectiles, which make small clean holes," were nevertheless able to rush on and come to close quarters. Some means had to be found to stop them. "The civilized soldier when shot recognizes that he is wounded and knows that the sooner he is attended to the sooner he will recover. He lies down on his stretcher and is taken off the field to his ambulance, where he is dressed or bandaged. Your fanatical barbarian, similarly wounded, continues to rush on, spear or sword in hand; and before you have the time to represent to him that his conduct is in flagrant violation of the understanding relative to the proper course for the wounded man to follow - he may have cut off your head." However, the rest of the delegates at the Hague Convention 1899 did not accept this justification and voted 22-2 to prohibit the future use of the dumdum bullet.

Theoretically if one shoots someone in war they are SUPPOSED to give up/surrender immediately ... and likewise the same goes for everybody else ... including you and me!

If anybody breaks that convention also then yes they are also criminals IMO.

People come and go ... POLICY is forever!

reply to post by Doc Holiday


Explanation: St*rred!

Thanks for your reply!

Please reread the text I quoted directly from the wiki link ok.

Personal Disclosure: This law applies to the police as well.

No exemptions and no excuses ... in time of WAR, including but not limited to civil war!

However outside times of war they are legal to use in some hunting and for civil law enforcement purposes.

I hope that helps clarify the issue for you!

If not then this link may help you on your way to getting a better understanding of what war means ...

Miltary necessity [wiki]

reply to post by OmegaLogos
Plenty of US government agencies that seemingly would have very little/no need for ammunition have requisitioned millions of rounds of hollowpoint ammunition. If it is good enough for them to use on us, I will happily reciprocate.

I still am not sure what agencies like the USDA, FDA and NOAA need with millions and millions of rounds of hollowpoint ammo.

I will also be happy to put a shotgun (also not allowed by the international conventions) to work if needs be.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

However outside times of war they are legal to use in some hunting and for civil law enforcement purposes.

How about enforcing the Constitution?

Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by Doc Holiday

 

Explanation: St*rred!

Thanks for your reply!

Please reread the text I quoted directly from the wiki link ok.

Personal Disclosure: This law applies to the police as well.

No exemptions and no excuses ... in time of WAR, including but not limited to civil war!

However outside times of war they are legal to use in some hunting and for civil law enforcement purposes.

I hope that helps clarify the issue for you!

If not then this link may help you on your way to getting a better understanding of what war means ...

Miltary necessity [wiki]

And guess what? The USA IS AT WAR right at this time! So go tell all cops that what they are doing is illegal.

reply to post by butcherguy


Explanation: St*rred!

[Note: OL is an Australian ok ... however I see my country as annexed by the USA and I have been told by americans that my attitude is american and it doesn't matter where I was born ...so I too am not exempt from what I am about to iterate ok!]

I agree ... that everyone has their 2nd Amendment Rights!

Please utilize those 2nd Amendment Rights after invoking ones 1st Amendment Rights to declare WAR on the US (corporation) of A. Federal Government since they are illegitimate!



When TPTB say one thing and do another ... well hypocrits can sux on hot molten ...

Personal Disclosure: Poetic justice ...

Ladybird, ladybird, / Fly away home, / Your house is on fire / And your children all gone;



HOWEVER in time of war expanding bullets are still illegal.

This means all those recently bought hollow point rounds can't be used by the cops on you once you have declared open warfare.

If they do ... then they are war criminals! And being cops the must uphold ALL LAWS!

They are trapped worse than we are!

Here is why ... if they show that they are willing to break that International Law ... then that allows other countries to butt in as they see fit.

Such as China and Russia etc.

Remember the Arab Spring!

Good for the Goose is Good for the Gander!

So what TIME is it? ...

It Is Time To Fly The American Flag PROUDLY OK!



@TPTB ... REGARDING The Constitution of The USA ... NO!
YOU JUST LEAVE IT LIKE THAT OK!

Here is why ... YOU HAVE BROUGHT US ALL TO THE EVE OF DESTRUCTION!



@Everybody else ....

Be well armed comrades and ground your rounds into that which is unconstitutional!

reply to post by greenovni


Explanation: St*rred!

I just did as you asked in my above post!

Personal Disclosure: I hope that satisfies you!

So jacketed hollow point rounds are a war crime in international war and civil war. Didn't know that. So you can shoot someone with a 120mm tank round but a 9mm hollow point is a no no, how stupid.

Don't hollow point rounds get stopped by most bullet proof vests and high velocity full metal jacket rounds go straight through? Anyway if you get double tapped by a 9 mil pistol JHP or FMJ you're probably going down, doesn't really matter.

I bet special forces use all kinds of ammo including JHP if they want to. Who is going to prosecute them? No one. They will just deny everything.

reply to post by OmegaLogos


There is no point winning a war if you loose the moral high ground by breaking the laws of war ok!


War..? Moral high ground..? What a mess...


I just purchased a box of Winchester 40 cal 155 grain silver tipped hollow points at Walmart for $45...


Not only do I feel comfortable loading my magazine with them, I can take out a werewolf...

reply to post by facelift


Silver tipped hollow points! LOL. What else can you buy at Walmart, an M240 machine gun? Can you buy a 5.56mm high velocity semi-auto rifle with a 30 round clip there?

reply to post by facelift


Explanation: St*rred!

Good for you!

Personal Disclosure: Just don't claim to be ignorant of the facts if you are charged with being a war criminal ok!

A small and possibly off-topic point. When I was carrying for a US agency domestically, we always used wad-cutters for our range practice. No idea why they'd want to buy so many hollow points.

There is no point winning a war if you loose the moral high ground by breaking the laws of war ok!

DHS and other agencies ordered a boat load of hollow points and you don't practice with those. If someone is shooting at me, I'm a lot more worried about surviving than morality. A moral victory is pretty hollow [no pun intended] when you're dead.

You can buy some seriously heavy duty sh*t at Walmart. Amazing. The one stop shop for the Montana Militia.

Colt LE6920 Carbine Semi-Auto
www.walmart.com...

Sig Sauer M400 with Prismatic Scope
www.walmart.com...

Federal Cartridge 5.56mmx45mm 62gr FMJ Ball-Clipped Ammo Can, 420 Rounds
www.walmart.com...

Remington .22 Rimfire Hollow Point, 225ct
www.walmart.com...

That is some serious firepower. You could take out a swat team with those no trouble at all, 5.56 FMJ straight through body armour. You can buy this military spec sh*t at Walmart that is pretty f*cking scary. Not too many other countries in the world where you can walk in to a department store and buy a military assault rifle.
Only in America. The right to bear arms. From my cold dead hands.

reply to post by charles1952


Explanation: St*rred!

It is not off topic at all IMO! I gratefully accept your reply to this thread!

It is quite obvious that such rounds can only be used for legally/lawfully for minor law enforcement issues ... such as when a small number of individuals are acting illegally/unlawfully.

However, when larges riots start, such ammunition would be considered, under interantional law, to be illegal.

When TPTB are forced by mass riots to declare martial law ... thats them declaring war on their own populace!

I.E ... ON YOU AND ME AND EVERYONE ELSE! (If need be we the people can force their hand)

Personal Disclosure: So I too seriously question the need for such a huge amount of hollow point ammunition!

Are they expecting a huge increase in individuals criminal activity???

Seems most likely to me as they have pushed us all to the eve of destruction!

However ... the reasons for them puchasing such large numbers of hollow point ammo is quite clear to me ... that they want to win and rewrite history in their favour!

And hollow points make it easy to kill and maim large numbers of un-armoured if but armed rioters.

They don't intend on taking any prisoners when shtf at that level ok!

It is about population control and fema death camps would cost them too much money.

There is nothing we can do about that ... till after the war is over and the winners start up WAR CRIMES TRIALS!

Stay sober my comrades!

reply to post by DAVID64


Explanation: St*rred!

Yes indeed, but at such a point you loose your humanity and become a wild ape! :shk:

Once you become a monster there is no turning back or one is a spineless gutless heartless hypocrit!

Also if one is mortal, and until further notice I am going to assume that we all are, then death is inevidable and unavoidable!!!

Personal Disclosure: So why not die for a principle instead of dying as a monsterous hypocritical coward?

Stay Solid Comrades!

reply to post by JimTSpock


Explanation: St*rred!

You can buy some seriously heavy duty sh*t at Walmart. Amazing. The one stop shop for the Montana Militia.

Only in America. The right to bear arms. From my cold dead hands.

[note: picture is also an external link ok.]

Indeed ... here is why ...

Text of the Second Amendment [wikiqoute]

The Second Amendment, as passed by the House and Senate and later ratified by the States, reads:

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

The hand-written copy of the Bill of Rights which hangs in the National Archives had slightly different capitalization and punctuation inserted by William Lambert, the scribe who prepared it. This copy reads:

A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

Both versions are commonly used by "official" Government publications.

And backed up by ...

Tree of Liberty (by President Thomas Jefferson)

What country ever existed a century and a half without a rebellion?

And what country can preserve it's liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?

Let them take arms.

The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them.

What signify a few lives lost in a century or two?

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.

It is it's natural manure.

Personal Disclosure: So Comrades ... listen to the President who KNOWS ... and Take Up Arms OK!

And water that Tree of Liberty ok!



IT IS Y/OUR FREEDOM AT STAKE!