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What will happen if there is a civil war in America?

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posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 08:08 PM
reply to post by dave_welch

You're not describing a civil war, you are describing a revolutionary war. You pose an interesting scenario, however you assume that DHS has the man power and resources to go door to door, house to house... in all 50 states. Local, county and state law enforcement would have to be used. How many county sheriffs would go along with that? I would like to think that not too many would comply. How many Governors would allow it? The FedGov will not be able to enforce any type of gun confiscation without the states backing them up. Further more, If Obama tries to do it via executive order that will be very easy to defeat through state nullification, as well as in the US House of Reps provided the Speaker grows a spine for once.
edit on 14-1-2013 by OptimusSubprime because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 08:45 PM
If the US were to (attempt) to ban all guns from private ownership I think that the most likely scenario would be the following:

However the ban is instituted, and after it is, at least, publicly ratified (can't do anything you can't at least pretend to be supported by the majority of the public), a "grace period" would be established: turn them in now, now harm, no foul, and maybe a small reward.

Following the grace period, the registration files would be "acquired", likely under the auspices of the PATRIOT Act. The Feds would "compare notes": who on the registration files has recieved his "compensation" for turning in which of his guns.

If you "forgot about" that old .45 in the hall closet, you'd get a letter from the Feds "reminding" you that it is you "duty" to comply with the Law and hand it over...Or Else!

So now, any private citizen still holding on to a gun, is by defintion, a criminal, subject to the full force of the law.

But the government isn't stupid, nor does it have infinite resources.

And pitched gun-fights in the streets between your gun-loving neighbors and the Federales who are intent on ridding the nation of dangerous "2nd-ers", might not be the kind of PR the government wants on the 6-o'clock news; at least not every night!

So, how will it work?

Just remember, the Feds have a vast arsenel at their disposal, and they have a lot of experience in taking down armed "Scofflaws".

And for this, the Pen is often mightier than the Sword, or Gun.

Remember Al Capone!

Crazy Old Al thought he ruled the roost in Chicago. Not even the Cops could take him down; heck, he Owned a fair share of the Chicago Blues!

Nope, 'twas the long arm of the IRS that, supposedly knee-capped the Capo.

Yes, I think the Ultimate weapon that the Federal Government will wield against those who continue to grip their Pistolas with "cold, dead hands" will find that their homes and property are suddenly under liens. Their wages suddenly garnished, their bank and retirement funds siezed under IRS Orders to Withhold.,

The government can (and if forced, likely will) leave all those Die-Hard gunners with nothing to eat But their guns!

Can't happen?

Talk to someone behind on their child support!

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 08:59 PM
reply to post by sitchin

not sure what you mean with the whole special relationship comment about the UK which i happen to be a citizen of. If i am reading it right, you seem to be suggesting that we are only claiming to have a special relationship with America so that we have the biggest dog in the fight, well it wasn't us who came running to get help to start an illegal war when they couldn't get any backup from other countries, it wasn't us who waited until the final few moments of the second world war waiting to see which side won, to come into it and then wave their own flag claiming that they won the war for us.

the whole point of the special relationship is something that yes i find stupid and just another way for them to both claim that we are good friendly nations who come to each others aid but to be honest, i could do without this claim, as i said America seems to only come to us when they need something that no one else comes to. the whole thing about China becoming an alley to the UK replacing America would be something that i am open to right now for the simple fact is that they tend not to deny the way they treat their prisoners of war, they dont change the name and call them Enemy combatants so they can use torture, and most of all the government is more than honest about not giving two pieces of rat sh1t about the poor.

On the other hand if you meant no offence then ignore the above ramble. but i still stick by my thoughts on America.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:07 PM
Greetings, Thunder heart woman

... I just don't believe our military will stand behind us.
To turn the armed forces against Americans will require commanders to violate the posse comitatus law for which those commanders may be imprisoned for up to 2 years. As has already pointed out, for hussein soetoro to order the armed forces to attack, constrain, arrest or subdue fellow citizens will amount to an illegal order.

That said, hussein is probably planning to order the armed forced to stay in garrison, and out of the way while his Americorp National Police force and the TSA do the dirty work.

hussein has greater numbers of gun confiscation enforcers at his disposal than the armed forces could possible provide.

-- The Americorp National Police Force
-- The TSA
-- ACORN and other Communist front organizations
-- The "Occupy Movement"
-- Street Gangs
-- Drug Cartels
-- Pardoned federal convicts (they get "presidential" pardons in exchange for service to soetoro).
-- Illegal aliens / border jumpers from Mexico (Amnesty is their reward from soetoro).
-- The Muslim Brotherhood
-- The News Media (Huh?) They'll do what they do - conduct psyops against Americans.

Coming up next - hussein will re-start his Neighbor Against Neighbor program. Rewards await those who report their neighbors who fail to turn in their fire-arms.

Look to how it's done in Communist nK. Forced labor camps will await those who oppose the the will of hussein soetoro saebarkah (alias obama, alias Harrison J. Bounell).

Can't happen? Really? People thought we would never have a Communist as "president."

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:40 PM
reply to post by dave_welch

the worst that happens is they ban the future sale of semi-auto rifles that are assualt style.

They won't collect them. They dont have the resources or logistics to do so.

There's no database, and no way to prove who really has what. You can hide the guns, it would take the government years to do a thorough search of every home that they think has a gun.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:43 PM
I think it is now time to wait and see how New York State responds to the new laws that are passed on them, it just might be the match that lights the fuse.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:52 PM
reply to post by OptimusSubprime

Well, it doesn't have to be all DHS, I was just using it as a be all for the alphabet agencies.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 09:58 PM
reply to post by Miraj

I understand and agree with what you're saying. That wasn't the point of this thread. We were just playing out a hypothetical situation which seems to be a hot topic lately.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 10:01 PM
When Constitutional freedoms are on the line this really hits close to home for all Americans.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 10:06 PM
So here how I see it going down:
Several States get fed up with the Fed, lock down their borders. Fed wants all it's toys back and says " give em back or else". " Come and take 'em" says the States. The Fed then blockades all navigable waterways, interstate highways,throws up no fly zones, shuts down the power grid and starves them out. All the crazy people that bought ARs and AKs and other high capacity semi automatic rifles that have no idea how to use them or how to fight and defend against an organized force proceed to whittle away at the general population.
People from those states that leave are detained, institutionalized, imprisoned and is some cases outright murdered set as examples to the others. Basically a war of attrition, and unless there is overwhelming sympathy, or intervention from a 3rd party (another country) those states will wither and die and be retaken in by the Fed. There will be victories and there will be heroes, but in the end the peoples' own selfishness and greed will destroy any chance of winning the war. I read everyday how preppers and survivalists are preparing for TSHTF
rarely do I read of them helping their communities. Bugging out (tuning out) a whole bunch of "I told you so's"
TPTB know you don't care about other Americans because they taught you that and they are confident that when TSHTF you will rat out your neighbors for a pound of cheese or a gallon of water, and eventually you will. That will debase any revolution you want to try and at the cost of many, many lives.
TPTB will not send masses of troops into the streets because as an offensive force American soldiers WOULD be sympathetic and likewise more morally bound to not murder citizens. Now you take those same soldiers and place them in a defensive position, say securing vital resources and the like. Now as a soldier my level or stress and anxiety would bump up 1000 X because now I play a part in protecting my Battle Buddies from all the baddies, and Lord knows the military implants and reinforces fidelity into every service member's fiber so now the soldiers are 1) providing security for the greater good by protecting this vital resource or what have you, preventing the perceived enemy from taking it away from people that need it to survive/deserve it 2) now they are not killing civilians, they are preventing themselves and their fellow soldiers from getting killed which is less morally reprehensible and easier to justify.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 10:12 PM
I see what you are pushing for now, battle tactics in that event. Well all I can say is just hide and watch, because people are much more resiliant then you can even know, and much smarter then being taken for.
edit on 14-1-2013 by candlelight because: (no reason given)

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 10:25 PM
Well, good night all, it has been fun, playing imaginary war. Peace to all.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 10:36 PM
reply to post by dave_welch

Purty well thought out. If I ever meet you on the lam, I will yell out, I was an "ATS member". Hopefully, you'll not put buckshot in my butt.

In fact, if tshtf because of the supposed EOs, and we have to give up our guns, and it goes crazy, "ATS member" would be a good enough password to state for me. I'll spare a round meant for any zombie that has the presence of mind to say "ATS member" before they identity themselves. Better say it loud, a few times.

The only way you would know to say that password is by reading it here, right now. Spread the word. The post-SHTF password is "ATS MEMBER".

OMG, I'm not paranoid. Lol.

I just like to plan. Just like the OP.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 11:04 PM
Believe it or not I look for the good in people and I work within my extended community to help people learn how to help people. I do see compassion and caring everyday, but I have to seek it out and promote it and surround myself with like minded people. What this country has done is instill fear, fear of our fellow Americans. I see/help people everyday that I have to convince that my intentions are honest. I see racism and prejudice blind people to the detriment of themselves. Sure we all pull together in a emergency and once the danger has past we move on. We never sustain, we kick the can down the road as it were. Once the media hype is over and we all have texted our ten dollar donation we are well contented to let someone else deal with it. A country full of I, me, mine and my so easily divided and conquered. We are in a civil war, one that created against our own communities and our own country. We the people are the problem, not the government.

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 11:41 PM
There won't be any large scale gun-seizures for at least 2 years. Obama will order limits on production, will demand paperwork trails, and he will TAX the guns, the bullets, and the owners.

His people would have to be complete idiots to allow anything that looked like a pretext for an uprising.

Seizing guns in 2 wards of New Orleans is one thing, when you have the rest of the military providing logistical support for it. Doing the whole nation, at once with the entire population in place, would be a ruinous and bloody fiasco. In the video that was posted of the events after Katrina, one "sniper" with a deer rifle could have reduced the whole unit to a crawl while the sniper flees. Three could have pinned the soldiers down, requiring more squads to deploy for rescue. Any return fire the soldiers provide will just draw more snipers to the general area. Just like Afghanistan.

From the government's point of view, you never want to oppress people to the point where they have "nothing left to lose." Middle Class people don't host uprisings. But folks who have lost their homes or jobs sure might.

From the insurgent standpoint, you don't attack the enemy's strength; you attack his weakness.

Just look at any US military base. In most of them, there isn't even a defensible perimeter. And since the US military is the world's largest consumer of petroleum, the trucks come and go through multiple entrances. Every morning, there are long lines of cars waiting to come onto base, completely vulnerable.... And without the thousands of civilian off-base employees, the ability to project force would be critically reduced.

Without the bases and the ground crews, the drones are useless And without useful intel, they can't find worthwhile targets. What are they going to do, shoot 3 million American, using bombs that cost a million a piece?

It's one thing to fight a war when your wife and kids are safe, halfway around the world. It's another thing to fight, while your wife is drawing fire if she goes to the grocery....

posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 11:55 PM
I'm not trying to rain on your hypothetical here, but I don't see the cities turning towards the freedom fighters.

Point blank: 10,000 skilled hunters, working in coordinated shifts, couldn't feed Los Angeles, or NYC. The people may be sheeple, but they know which side of the bread their butter is on. 99% are going to get up the very next Monday and go to work. They have to pay their mortgage, and they have to buy their food.

Their labor is going to keep the economic engine of the country moving forward. Rural areas who don't quickly get back in line will be cut off from fuel, heat and electricity until they do. Outliers are easy to target and neutralize.

Where the major cities go, 80% of the countries economy goes to. The lesson of the first civil war is simple: Those who have the manufacturing capacity win. Those who don't are driven to ground, and lose to attrition.

Your scenario assumes too much. There is no way the cities follow the country side into open revolt over guns. They can't afford to. Inevitably the whole thing becomes a long and brutal culling of a group history will label as terrorists. If it takes 30 years to reign in, that's 30 years of job security for Big Daddy.

I can't even imagine a different way this goes down if the money wants to hold on to the goose that lays golden eggs.

posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 12:33 AM
reply to post by 0zzymand0s

What are you going to feed all those millions in the cities? Powdered concrete? Cities may process food, but they don't make it appear out of nothingness.

Grain and veggies follow a precarious supply pipeline that wends its way for hundreds, even thousands of miles on its way to your fridge.

If the Govt cuts off fuel to the countryside, it is also cutting its own food supply.

Any way you slice it, crop yields are going to collapse during prolonged civil unrest. And with every US farm-worker feeding 100 other people, just a slight disruption means abject misery in the cities...just like the great depression.

In that case, the rebels will be tempted to cut the supply lines themselves, and deprive the feds of their wealth. A government that cannot feed its subjects or keep them warm doesn't get to stay in power very long.

The more hunger in the cities, the more people will flee to the countryside, and the less power the Emperor has. It's what happened when the vandals couldn't conquer Rome. Alaric cut the water supply, and the Empire ceased to exist...

posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 04:55 AM
reply to post by dave_welch

I would ask him what he thinks a terrorist is

posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 06:27 AM
reply to post by superman2012

Any smart hunter will carry a handgun. Wild boars will charge you in a heartbeat if you run up on one, Swinging a rifle around to aim at a close target is difficult.

posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 06:45 AM
reply to post by superman2012

When ordered to hand in their gold by executive order, Americans did, with no uprising. You can't provide for your children with a handgun.

ridiculous statement..........we did it for hundreds of years.............

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