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How Soon Will The Rapture Take Place ?

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posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 01:27 AM
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Well i take an Amillenialist POV on this one and agree with what PISKY said on the first page and what flyers fan has said on this page.

Flyers Fan: thank you for bringing up the point that Christ would have to come back twice. Thats exactly what i say to myself everytime someone with a premillenialist viewpoint says that to me
also the thing you mentioned about the angelican rise of this idea. this point of view of premillenialism was never really brought up by theologians and even secularists when they studied any of the "end times" books of the bible for hundreds of years. It wasnt even known to most people or i should say made popular until the late 60's when the evangelical and assembly of God (pentecostal) wave hit america.
So im glad you pointed that stuff out


We really shouldnt be fighting about this especially amongst ourselves because Honestly i think the important thing to remember is that whether you are a pre, A, or post millenialist you are still christian. Anyone that has one of these points of view is awaiting Christs return which in christianity belief in the promise and sacrifice of christ is the most important thing to believe in right?

i hold an Amillenialist point of view because thats what my research has revealed to me. But frankly does it matter whether we are pre, A or post? not really....we shouldnt be focused on when someone is coming but who is coming. he promised that he would and thats really good enough for me. personally i dont need to know if i have 20 years left or a day left until he comes back. if he felt we needed to know that then dont you think he would have made it possible for us to find out?

so in my POV, there is not rapture at least not in the sense that the premillenialists describe it. but thats ok....its their POV.

Kind regards,
DigitalGrl




posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 02:04 AM
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Here's a concept.......

The rapture simply never will happen as for this - all of you self-appointed prophets and doomsday seekers, year after year, tell us when it's going to happen. Since the Bible tells that you WON'T know when, you are dis-allowing it to happen by prophesying when it will.

Catch22 that you've invoked by your own promulgation.

Maybe it would happen ........ if you'de shut the hell up about it, lmao.

So many Christians ...... so few Jesus would sit with
[the latter aimed at ones such as DG, and others with such display of sincere humility and lack of pomposity]

Misfit



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 04:49 AM
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thats actually the return of jesus (who comes as a theif in the night, in an hour u do not expect him). like i said before 2thess2 puts the nail in the coffin of rapture theory. (pre trib). hebrews 12:1-2 explain the saying "in a cloud", in this case it was a cloud of witnesses.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 11:03 AM
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What you guys fail to understand is that Jesus will return to meet the saints in the clouds, that is what is refered to as the rapture, he does not reappear on the earth at that time.


1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


He will return to the earth at what is called the "SecondComing"

Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

The tribes of the earth do not see Christ at the rapture, nor do they mourn, it is only the christians that see him and they are "Translated"



Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, 25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. 26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. 27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

The second coming is "AFTER" the 7 year tribulation period, as seen above.



FLYER, 'Rapture' isn't biblical. For a Rapture to take place, Christ would
have to come back TWICE. He isn't. He is only coming back once.
Christ's own words say that when He comes back EVERYONE will
know it. No secret Rapture when He comes back ... Christ says so.

This statement is false, for he does "APPEAR" twice, once at the rapture where he meets the saints in the clouds, and the second time when he returns to the earth, and all the earth mourns because of their impending judgement.

This is false also.

Christ Himself says that there will be a time of trial for Christians just
before his second coming. He doesn’t say that anyone will be snatched
out of tribulation but the one ‘who endures to the end will be saved”
(Matthew 24:13; see also 10:22) The days of trial are not a time of
escape, but rather a time of sifting, proving, and purging the faithful.

Mat 24:be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

Clearly in those verses we see that "ONE" will be taken(Translated) and "ONE" will be "Left behind"
It also tells us that we could be aware of what watch the thief would come.


29 And he(JESUS) spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; 30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. 31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. 32 Verily I say unto you, "This generation" shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. 33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. 34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. 35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. 36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man. 37 And in the day time he


The last generation before the Lords return would "KNOW" that Jesus is soon to return when we see the predicted "SIGNS".


[edit on 31-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 11:36 AM
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LDP,

Not to instigate anything, but i'm just wondering what your intent/motivation is for making this thread? are you trying to 1. debate theological ideas 2. convert non christians and christians to your theological perspective 3. Go on an ego trip or 4. Simply post your opinon about an idea you find interesting?

Right now i have assumptions and if im going to read any further in this thread i should really straight up ask you why you are posting this instead of assuming that i know you....so if you dont mind.....could you answer that question for me really quick? thanks

Kind Regards,
digitalGrl



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 11:52 AM
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The pupose of the post is to make those that are not aware, that the coming of the Lord is near and we need to repent and be ready, many christians are not ready and may miss the rapture and have to endure the tribulation.

1Pet 4:16 Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf. 17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God? 18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

These verses show that many of the righteous will scarcely make it, so many need to be stirred to step up in the lord.

My intentions are not to debate, for I know for a certainty, the things that are soon coning upon the earth. I warn those that will listen, the others will soon find out the consequences of their error.

The word of God is accurate and those that don't believe or misinterpret it will find themselves left behind.

[edit on 31-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 12:35 PM
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Thanks for replying LDP.

i have 2 more questions for you if that ok. again, not to instigate a fight...just real questions


You said that you know for sure that the end is coming soon....how do you know? aside from what you are interpreting in the bible, do you have any other source...did God give a revelation to you or something?

my other question is that you said you feel alot of christians arent on the right path, what makes you feel like you are so much further on the right path than others to be given the right to look behind you and pass judgement on where they are in their relationship with christ? again, im not trying to fight with you. I'm just wondering if God told you to do this or not.

as far as the tribulation goes, i think that christians that are alive when it happens will have to endure it like everybody else. and of course i get that idea from scripture. im not going to cut and paste...i hate that. and im sure youve read the spots where i get my ideas from so.....if you are curious i can post the chapter and you can look it up.
but aside from that, i dont think that i have any more of a right to be saved from the trib than anyone else. i dont mean to be blunt but...if i am alive when the trib takes place i hope im here. because i have alot of friends and family memebers that arent christian and i want to be there for them. to maybe help them understand, so if they do change they can have someone with them to encourage them. and if they dont change well then its more time for me to spend with them. if your interpretion is right then you know, i have to deal with that, and i will. but if its wrong and im right im ok with that too.

either way, someone alot smarter than you and I is in charge (thank goodness). So whats to there to be afraid of?

Kind Regards,
DigitalGrl



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 03:20 PM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
The pupose of the post is to make those that are not aware, that the coming of the Lord is near and we need to repent and be ready, many christians are not ready and may miss the rapture and have to endure the tribulation.


I respect your desires on this. Your intentions are good.

However, isn't it better to tell Christians that they need to repent
and be ready NO MATTER WHAT? Look at New Orleans. A lot of those
folks you see on TV who are stuck there will be dead in a week or two.
Tens of thousands ... perhaps hundreds of thousands.
Dead from lack of water, the heat ... cholora and typhoid will be
breaking out soon.

Motivation that 'the end' could be much sooner than any Rapture ...
(which I still don't believe in). Everyone will have a personal
'end of the world' and considering what I see on the TV news ...
lots of us will have it sooner rather than later.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 03:33 PM
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What we currently see on TV is only a forshadow of what is to come, the Tribulation will be far worst than what we are seeing now, this is only the "Beginning Of Sorrows" spoken of in Matthews. You don't want to be here when the tribulation period begins. What we are now seeing would be considered "MILD" compared to the Tribulation, it will be a time of trouble like the world has never seen or imagined.


Rev 9:17 And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. 18 By these three was the third part of men ( 1/3 ) killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. 19 For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for their tails were like unto serpents, and had heads, and with them they do hurt.



Rev 8:7The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up.
8 And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood;



Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.



Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire. 9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory. 10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain, 11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.


The Time Of These Things

Mt 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. 5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

And Mark

Mk 13:7 And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet. 8 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows

All these things are currently happening in our world "TODAY"



Digitalgrl, To answer your first question, the verses below show that there will be a "Falling Away" (from sound doctrine,as the second quote shows) proving that many will be decieved.


2Thess 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him (The Rapture), 2that ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.



2Tim 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.
You cannot turn from the truth if you never knew the truth, proving these people once knew the Lord.


To your second question, I do what I am called to do.
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine


Ti 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.


And yes, I have seen visions from God, of the things that are soon coming upon the earth.

Acts 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:


Here are other verses that show that many will be decieved.


Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone


My mission is to help those that would listen, not to be decieved

These are the signs that follow "True Mature Christians" and also why I say many in the Church need to "Step Up", for most don't operate in these things.

How many of you operate in these things ?


Mark 16:15And he(JESUS) said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16He(ANYONE) that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. 17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they [cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
19So then, after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God. 20And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.


Men can make all the excuses they want for not operating in the above annointing, but that will never change what God has said would be the signs that would follow "True Believers"


[edit on 31-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 06:06 PM
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jesus returns once, to earth, at 1thess4:17. it says with a trump. 1cr15:51-2 says its the last trump. 2thess2 says NO GATHERING BACK TO CHRIST occurs until satan appears claiming to be God in the temple of God. What scripture are you using to say jesus has 2 returns? There is no such thing.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 08:08 PM
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NUtroll, jesus returns once, to earth, at 1thess4:17. it says with a trump. 1cr15:51-2 says its the last trump. 2thess2 says NO GATHERING BACK TO CHRIST occurs until satan appears claiming to be God in the temple of God. What scripture are you using to say jesus has 2 returns? There is no such thing.


You are wrong, there are two resurrections, the first is the "Rapture"

Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.



NO GATHERING BACK TO CHRIST occurs until satan appears claiming to be God in the temple of God.

That is your interpretation which is incorrect.

This is the second resurrection.

Rev 20:11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.



Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. 2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,(The Rapture) and some to shame and everlasting contempt.(The second Death) 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever. 4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.


It is this century that many run to and fro, ( planes, cars, ships )
And that knowledge has been increased. (computers, cell phones, television, radio, space shuttles, satellites, stem cell research)
All this has happened since 1900, no other generation has seen the advancement in technology that we see today.

It is clear that in 1 Thess 4:16 that we "Meet The Lord In The Clouds", Jesus does not come down to the earth at this time, proof of this is that it says we shall be "Caught Up"
Why would we be caught up if jesus is coming down to the earth ?

: 1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


Do you understand that a meeting in the Air is different than coming down to the earth ?
How do you explain Mat 24 where it says, "One" shall be taken and the other left behind ?

This is what takes place at the "Second Coming Of Christ" when he "Returns to the earth.


Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.


Here the Lord returns to the earth as King, he destroys the armies of the Beast and cast the Beast and The False Prophet into the Lake of Fire.
This happens after the Mark of The Beast was given and at the end of the Tribulation Period.

The Tribulation Period is "The Wrath Of God"

Clearly meeting the Lord in the air, and the Lord returning with the armies of Heaven are not the same event!


[edit on 31-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 08:32 PM
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you realize that every post that you posted only proves my point. first off the first ressurection takes place for the saints ruling DURING THE THOUSAND YEARS or the LORDS day. and the second takes place after the white throne judgement. rev 19 and 20 are post millenial or at the tail end of the millenium. matt 24 spans the entire trib, with jesus returning at the end, dan 12 is also after the abomination of desolation the little horn evil king (dan 7,8,11) , which is all post trib.

now read again about the word air and clouds. the word air is ruach or spirit. the word cloud is a saying of the greeks as in hebrews 12, (a cloud of witnesses, a cloud of locusts). furthermore 2thess2 was written IN RESPONSE TO 1thess4, and the confusion that resulted from it.
----------First ressurection is in the 1000 years----------
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
------------------Second ressurection is in the end of it during white throne judgement. The saints are ruling during the 1000 years, which is post tribulation.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 08:53 PM
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Forget it NUtroll, Thess 4: clearly states that we meet the Lord in the Air, the Dead will "Rise"
In Revelations, the Lord Returns with the armies of Heaven and they come down to the earth to destroy the Beast, two totally separate events.

The Rapture takes place in the "Middle Of The Week"

The Second Coming is clearly "After" the tribulation period.

Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


[edit on 31-8-2005 by Lastday Prophet]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:00 PM
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double post.

[edit on 2005-8-31 by NuTroll]



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:01 PM
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the dead in christ shall rise first. (because the other dead in thess4:13 are already gone. see 2cr5:8).

also in matt 24, the ones taken from the field are taken by the false christ. not the true. sorry for the doubel post.



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:02 PM
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the rapture doesnt take place in the middle of the week. Im still confused how you can justify that in 1thess4 when paul clearly wrote 2thess2 to EXPLAIN confusion that resulted over it. Its about where teh dead are. also the words air and clouds have both ebeen explained by taking air back to the greek and the word cloud as it is utilzed in hebrews 12. 1



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:11 PM
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You are really trying to "twist" the scripture to mean what you want it to mean, it does not state what you have alledged,

1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God:

and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then "WE" (Christians) which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with "THEM" (Those That Died In The Lord) in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord



posted on Aug, 31 2005 @ 09:16 PM
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and those which are alive and remain cannot prevent those that are asleep. (also look up the word prevent in greek. it means to proceed. get a strongs and check me out of u dont believe me).

now lets look at it with 1cr15:52

1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

LAST TRUMP. the same TRUMP in 1thess4. the 7th trump in revelations. after

*actually I'll just go ahead and do it .
1) cloud of witnesses

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

2) word prevent in greek

G5348
φθάνω
phthanō
fthan'-o
Apparently a primary verb; to be beforehand, that is, anticipate or precede; by extension to have arrived at: - (already) attain, come, prevent.


3) actually i was wrong about the word air. It doesnt matter though, the argument will still hold. Jesus return is described in rev 14. the usage of the word cloud to be in a crowd also still holds.

[edit on 2005-8-31 by NuTroll]



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 08:02 AM
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Originally posted by Lastday Prophet
It is clear that in 1 Thess 4:16 that we "Meet The Lord In The Clouds", Jesus does not come down to the earth at this time, proof of this is that it says we shall be "Caught Up"
Why would we be caught up if jesus is coming down to the earth ?

It was the custom of the day that the people would go out and greet
and escort a dignitary or royal person. They would leave their homes
and their villages and all go out to where he was coming in and they
would greet him and be his 'honor guard' escorts. This is shown all
through scripture. The person who wrote this quoted text was telling
readers that everyone will honor Christ and that they will recognize his
royalty. This is the custom of their time and that's why it's in the bible.
Lots of customs from that time made it into the bible. (like women having
to have their heads covered when they worshipped God. Are women
going to hell because they don't wear veils when they worship God?
It's a custom that is in scripture - just like going out (up) to greet Christ
as he comesfor the second (and only) time.


: 1Thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.


There cannot be a 'secret' rapture ... look at what you typed. The
TRUMPET OF GOD. This is something that everyone will hear. Christ
coming from heaven with a SHOUT. No secret rapture. This is all
describing the second coming and JUDGEMENT.


Do you understand that a meeting in the Air is different than coming down to the earth ?


The greeting of Christ for the second judgement is being described.
They are meeting him and escorting him to his second coming and
judgement (as per the custom of the day).

In your idea it will go like this ... heaven opens up, thunder is heard,
trumpets blare, Christ desends and shouts .... everyone sees and
hears ... the lucky ones get to go with him and get whisked away
and then Christ (whom everyone can clearly see and hear) says
'hey ... just kidding .. this isn't my second coming ... I'm just hanging
out here in the clouds to collect a few buds ... ha ha ha ... my foot
isn't actually touching the earth so techinically this isn't my second
coming.... fooled ya' ha ha ha'

nope. He only comes back once. He isn't having 2 second comings.



posted on Sep, 1 2005 @ 10:22 AM
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Why do people so much want there to be a rapture?

the holy Apostle Paul has said: It is appointed unto men once to die, and after this the judgment (Heb. 9:27).





All who believe in the Rapture are premillennialists, that is, they believe that Jesus will return to earth and set up a 1,000 year earthly king dom followed by a final judgment where all unbelievers will be condemned. This idea of a 1,000 year earthly kingdom is known as chiliasm (from the Greek chiliasmos, a thousand years) and was condemned as a heresy by the Orthodox Church in 381. Formally it is based on a misinterpretation of the twentieth chapter of Revelation which speaks of the souls.. who lived with Christ a thousand years (20:4). Archbishop Averky in commenting on this verse writes:

From this it is clear that these saints who participate in the thousand-year reign of Christ are reigning with Christ and per forming judgment not on earth but in heaven, for it speaks here only concerning their souls which are not yet united with their bodies. From these words it is evident that the Saints take part in the governing of the Church of Christ on earth, and therefore it is natural and proper to appeal to them with prayers, asking their intercession before Christ with Whom they reign.6

Fr. Seraphim Rose forcefully refutes the notion of the Rapture and a millennial kingdom saying:

The Second Coming of Christ will be unmistakable: it will be sudden, from heaven and it will mark the end of this world.There can be no preparation for it save only the Orthodox Christian preparation of repentance, spiritual life, and watchfulness.


WILL YOU MEET THE LORD
IN THE "RAPTURE" OR IN REALITY?
here






The Apostle Paul maintains the same thing. Reproaching the Christians for turning to worldly tribunals to solve their various affairs, he says: "Do you not know that the saints will judge the world?” (1 Cor. 6, 2). But how is this judgement known by the saints?

St. Symeon answers this point as well. He says that every man, finding himself faced with eternal life and that unutterable light, will see "one who is like him and will be judged by him". All men who have lived on earth in different ways of life will be judged by other men who have lived with them in the same conditions of life. And the ones lived in accord with the will of God, the others rejected His commandments. This means that there can be no excuse that the conditions of life were difficult and that therefore they could not live according to God's ordinances.

EXCELLENT article onTHE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST

ON SAINTS.....and those that doubt them///
quote/
When Christians depart this life, they remain a vital part of the Church, the body of Christ. They are alive in the Lord and "registered in heaven" (Hebrews 12:23).
They worship God (Revelation 4:10) and inhabit His heavenly dwelling places (John 14:2).
In the Eucharist we come "to the city of the living God" and join in communion with the saints in our worship of God (Hebrews 12:22).
They are that "great cloud of witnesses" which surrounds us, and we seek to imitate them in running "the race set before us" (Hebrews 12:1).




FlyersFan gave a perfect example in ....
Post Number: 1648328 (post id: 1670221)

'Rapture' isn't biblical. For a Rapture to take place, Christ would
have to come back TWICE. He isn't. He is only coming back once.
Christ's own words say that when He comes back EVERYONE will
know it. No secret Rapture when He comes back ... Christ says so.



Christ came first time as a MAN....The Son of Man.....became a servant of man.
Christ in His second Coming will REVEAL HIS FULL GLORY.
He comes as King and as a JUDGE.........Judgement proceeds .


St. Paul teaches that we are raised up with Christ in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), "fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God" (Ephesians 2:19). At the end of the age, a new heaven and a new earth will be revealed (Revelation 21:1).

"God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved" (John 3:17)




The Lord will descend in all His glory surrounded by innumerable angels: "Then they will see the Son of Man, coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory, and all His angels with Him … Then He will sit on the throne of His glory…" (Mt. 24:30, 25:31, Mk. 13:26).
From these words we should conclude that the Second Coming of Christ will look substantially different from the first one, during which He willingly humbled Himself and came in the semblance of an ordinary man.
Then He lived in poverty and voluntarily suffered all kinds of humiliations.
His Second Coming will also differ in purpose.
First He came to give His soul for the salvation of many; then He will come to judge the world and recompense everyone according to his deeds. (Acts 17:31; Mt. 24:27).


second coming

IX
helen



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