Did Jefferson really say that? Bogus quotations in gun debates

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posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 11:25 AM
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This is an important, if long winded and poorly written article. What's important is that some of the most used quotes by the gun lobby may be fake:



The Founding Fathers are frequently quoted in the gun control debate, but many of those quotations turn out to be fake.


www.cnn.com...




posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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I saw that

the idea behind the quotes is usually pretty strong, even if there is no original source material behind it as they point out

I can't wait for all of this drama to be over

nobody is going to ban or confiscate anything

all that's going on now is internet shenanigans



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 11:33 AM
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reply to post by CB328
 


Good lord, CNN wrote itself a long winded article debunking 1 quote from our main man TJ? CNN is really pushing it these days huh? Good news is no one cares about CNN, ratings prove this.

Btw CNN, our Gov't is clearly on the path to TYRANNY, but CNN is just a mouth piece for said TYRANNICAL Gov't.
edit on 13-1-2013 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 12:22 PM
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reply to post by CB328
 


So what if the sources are fake that doesn't mean what is said isn't true. Does it make it more true if Franklin or Jefferson said it? Nope- it's just as true/false however you feel no matter if Thomas Jefferson or Aunt Kathy said it. And how do you know they didn't say it anyway? is every word they said recorded? Nope this nothing more than someone trying to distract us from real issues and push this crap Gun Control /Freedom Control Agenda.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 10:39 PM
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Want to check on Jefferson quotes, there's a thread for that.

Quotes of Thomas Jefferson



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 11:28 PM
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reply to post by Headband7
 


It's important because it shows the ignorance of the american populace in their own history. The "Founding Fathers" have been aforded a mythical status; when historically, it is not so simple and speaks to the naivete of our society.



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 12:18 AM
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Wanted to share this from another thread, since it pertains to the question at hand;


Originally posted by ADVISOR
There is a good way to determine if the case in point, is still relevant.
Despite its debated accuracy, it is the sentiment of those words in essence, that are of value;



"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Status: We have not found any evidence that Thomas Jefferson said or wrote, "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny," or any of its listed variations.

Comments: One source attributes this quotation to Thomas Jefferson in The Federalist.[4] The Federalist, however, was the work of Alexander Hamilton, John Jay, and James Madison; it also does not contain the text of this quotation. This quotation is vaguely similar to Jefferson's comment in an 1825 letter to William Short: "Some are whigs, liberals, democrats, call them what you please. Others are tories, serviles, aristocrats, &c. The latter fear the people, and wish to transfer all power to the higher classes of society; the former consider the people as the safest depository of power in the last resort; they cherish them therefore, and wish to leave in them all the powers to the exercise of which they are competent."



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by ADVISOR
 
What our Founders said or did not say can be found in documents held in the Library Of Congress and other places but for our purposes, here on the Internet, I find "Brainy Quote" to be sufficient.

As for Thomas Jefferson Quotes, these are good enough for me:

I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.
Thomas Jefferson

The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
Thomas Jefferson

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.
Thomas Jefferson

When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.
Thomas Jefferson

It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world.
Thomas Jefferson

I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just; that his justice cannot sleep forever.
Thomas Jefferson

A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference.
Thomas Jefferson

As for quotations about the 2nd Amendment, Jefferson said it well enough in that last quote but for the Closet Geniuses amongst us, let's be even more explicit:

Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and Romans, and must be that of every free state.
Thomas Jefferson

For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.
Thomas Jefferson /b]

Read more at www.brainyquote.com...


edit on 15-1-2013 by MajorKarma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 02:04 PM
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Thanks for the post OP, nice to see the truth on here as well.

As seems many people forget our motto here or simply choose ignorance if it means they don't have to change their opinion. I am completely torn on the issue and see good points on both sides of the fence, but one thing we don't need in this debate are untruths pushed by the lobbies from one side or the other.


Khar



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 02:09 PM
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reply to post by MajorKarma
 


Here is just one of the quotes I looked up out of what you said is "good enough" for you:

monticello.org




Quotation: "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny."

Status: We have not found any evidence that Thomas Jefferson said or wrote, "When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny," or any of its listed variations.


You can look up many others for whether they are true or not, however it is deeply concerning that you will find anything "good enough" as long is it fits your purpose. I guess I would suggest not using Brainy Quote any longer as accuracy obviously isn't their concern.

Thanks for bringing all this up OP.


Khar
edit on 15-1-2013 by Kharron because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 03:09 PM
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It doesn't matter to me if he said them or not. The idea, the crux, of any of these statements, outweigh any modern "reporter" or "academic" attempt to destroy the collective love of our ideals.

Why the hell are you people afraid of Freedom? Small minds cannot fathom that some IDEALS are better than who did or didn't say it.

CNN,


I think we have undergone an I D-Ten-T error.



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 03:38 PM
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reply to post by Kharron

TOS prevent me from responding as I would like to your silliness but I did read what you said and would prefer you go hump on some else's leg Sunshine.As for my use of BrainyQuotes, I welcome you to find a quote from one of the Founders who spoke against our Constitution and Bill of Rights....just one. Meanwhile, go sit on your fence with those who support Obama and the enemies of our way of life here in the USA, you might do them some good.

Speaking of Good Enough For Me, this Sheriff is good enough for me:



edit on 15-1-2013 by MajorKarma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 05:27 PM
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Originally posted by Kharron
Thanks for the post OP, nice to see the truth on here as well.

As seems many people forget our motto here or simply choose ignorance if it means they don't have to change their opinion. I am completely torn on the issue and see good points on both sides of the fence, but one thing we don't need in this debate are untruths pushed by the lobbies from one side or the other.


Khar


Did you read the moderator's post? Why not address that?





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