LiveJournal User Turned over to Secret Service for Blog Post

The Security Guys for the most part are no different to you or me

No better or no worse than you or I here...........Hmmmmmm maybe I should rephrase that.....

No better or worse than most people out in the world.

For instance.

I've found if you dont go assuming most cops are pigs they will be happy to treat you properly.......Came in handy the day I got pulled over for forgetting to turn my headlights on after dusk. Had a civilised talk with the officer in charge, called his partner off who was having a discussion with my brother in law and his girlfreind in back and wished me a happy good day.........Much to the releif of my IL who informed me he had put a small bag of grass in the boot without my knowledge......whew!

Originally posted by SHADOW266
Was she jailed? Convicted? Charged with a crime? I think not. You need to wake up and realize there is a difference in talking to someone and making blind assumptions about comparing this situation with Orwellian conspiracies.

What Psychoses is trying to say is that the "FBI told her that what she said *possibly* could be *construed* as a threat", not that it was a threat. If he wants to talk about orwellian conspiriacies that is his right.

The fact of the matter is, we do not know what she actually said. But I will also say that this administration is overly paranoid and would not put it past them to do something like what people on this thread are explaining. Just take a look at the "free speech zones" at the DNC and "little guantanamo" at the RNC. Both sides are paranoid. This Orwellian society might not be to far off.

This woman may not be able to get on an airplane because her name will come up on a security check. The FBI now has a file on her, which will impact her life in a variety of ways. She will never land any job that requires a security clearance.

This is heavy long term punishment for a thought crime. It is obviously unwarranted political intimidation. It is clearly heavy handed bullying - intimidation intended to stop people from speaking up, speaking out or criticizing Bush or his administration. ...The message is clear. Complain and you pay.

Dare I say it? WAKE UP YOU FOOLS!

You might be next. Even if you're on the payroll.

I wasnt going to post anything here but I don't think there is anything else that will get through some of your blunt heads.

When I was in college I remember a student was paid a visit by the Secret Service UNDER THE CLINTON administration for this particular phrase "I hope the acid raid KILLS the grass on your lawn".

Stop blaming bush. He's not no saint but at least get it straight. This has happened way before him and it will happen way after him. They didnt arrest her now did they?!

Originally posted by soficrow
There is a difference between threats, possibly construed threats and thought crimes. The difference however, is not respected by this administration. If you don't support Bush, look out.

Since we don't know exactly what was posted all of this is moot.


There is a point, however, where expressing your dislike for someone can be construed as a threat.

My gues is is that she made some stupid a$$ comment involving her desire to inflict bodily harm on the president. Whether she meant it is besides the point.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by HowardRoark]

This avowed weenie got exactly what he deserved. As Roark states, it has been the policy of the Secret Service to follow up on every single threat against the President for a very long time and there are roughly one hundred such threats each year.

This individual has no one to blame but himself and an FBI record is not the worst of burdens to bear, considering that millions of us have one for a variety of benign reasons.

As the individual states, this should be a word to the wise. If anything we should applaud the Secret Service for taking their jobs seriously and protecting our President.

Can I play devil's advocate here:


All of you who feel this is Bush turning the country fascist:
How would you feel if the tables were turned. Pretend the person turning in the blogger was pro-Clinton. The blogger makes remarks that might be construed as a threat to Clinton. The Secret Service investigates this anti-Clinton person.
Would you still be as outraged.

the more of their resources are squandered pursuing bogus "threats" the more likely it is a real assasin will fall through the cracks and pull something crazy.

i really think this zero tolerance policy ITSELF is the biggest security problem the secret service faces....

people have posted threatening things to ME on the internet, and i'm still here

Originally posted by DontTreadOnMe
The blogger makes remarks that might be construed as a threat to Clinton. The Secret Service investigates this anti-Clinton person.
Would you still be as outraged.

Please reference my post above because this HAS happened under the Clinton administration in an e-mail to him in regards to environmental policy.

Bush is an idiot. He is a traitor and should be brought up on war crimes. He is bad for the country and many innocent people have died because of him. He is quite simply a bad person. Frankly I don't care what the SS.... hmmm... SS... Secret Service... SS. Coincidence? Last I checked my right to free speech was protected. If they don't like it then they can go to the hills of Afghanistan and provide security for bin Laden.

Actually, part of the problem depends on how it was 'presented' to the SS (I mean Secret Service).

If the person calling the SS tells them you are a threat, and they have seen multiple posts from you saying how you would like to 'butcher' the president, etc. I'm pretty sure the SS shows up at your door.

If the person says, "This blogger ranted and raved about the president. Then said how it would be cool to kill him." The SS considers the 'source' and figures it some irate individual that just wants to get you into trouble.

Please remember, everybody here probably knows that 'scoping' the president is now illegal. Primarily because when FDR would go hunting, other hunters would 'scope' him 'just to get a look'.

In any event, it says a great deal to the public. "Don't threathen the most power man in the world, or the SS will show up at your door and give you a reason to reconsider your words.

Scarey thought when it comes right down to it. I guess that is what the First Amendment has come to. You have free speech as long as it's what we say is good for you. And as long as other people think it's alright and don't turn you into the SS.

[edit on 27-10-2004 by kuilor2k]

I think that threatening the President with physical violence is such an easy thing to avoid that no one's First Amendment rights are infringed at all. If you don't have that much self restraint then you deserve exactly what you get.

And George W Bush remains human scum, unfit for office.

Possibly most Secret Service personnel would agree, but they do not have the freedom of speech to express such things about a criminal and inept "president".

A screencap of the post in question can be found here:
www.thethirteenthstep.com...

Does the fact that it's worded as a prayer make this a crossover into "Freedom of Religion" territory?

Had to move this over.

Freedom of Speach and Threats.

Hey, this lady on LJ does have the freedom of speach. She used it, posted it and whatever it said got a visit from the USSS. You can say or print whatever you want. Just remember that there may be repercussions, good or bad. Her choice words put her at the top of the list. Feel free say whatever you want to. It just shows you what you say may not be legal. Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Tell the judge you didn't know what the law was and see how quickly that gets you out of court.

I just love how some people want to scream freedom of speach until something negative happens then they whine because their privacy is invaded. It seems to me most ofthose same people while loving the First Ammendment want to take away MY Second Ammendment right to keep and bear arms. Yes I concealed weapon permit and I always have it with me.

Finally, if you do something to earn a visit, what is the big deal? Unless of course you have something to hide.

I read the post and NOWHERE can I see anything that should give the SS reason to investigate this person, nor to waste time, money and resources to go and actually visit this person. The poster asks God to kill Bush and hopes that God will cause bad things to happen to him. Not ONCE does the poster allude to herself actually wanting to hurt Bush directly. Think of it logically, if you were an SS officer, would YOU think that this person was a threat to the President? If then you say, "well, the SS are just doing what they're told", then you have to think about who's doing the telling...

I've lived in Communist China before and even the communist government won't go to the extent of sending investigators/bullies around to your house. You can be sure this unfortunate persons name is now on a blacklist somewhere and she would never be able to get a job in the government sector. If ID cards come in, will the words "Potential Terrorist" be placed in her details.

This is a message, a lesson and an example being made to the rest of us: Don't mess with the government. And it will probably only get worse. Like the frog in the pot experiment, if the temperature is increased a little at a time, we won't realize and before we know it, we're already cooked. Time to wake up and hop out of the pot, folks.

I'm gonna do a little experiment here and see if the SS comes knocking at my door. So here goes:

God? Are you there? If you're listening, please do me a favor and come down and squoosh with your Godly wrath, ANY President, including George W. Bush, who turns what was once a great country like the US into a warmongering, oil-grabbing tyrannical oaf derided by the rest of the sane world. God, can you please take any President that starts wars for his own personal gain and drown him in a bucket of three-weeks-old dog's vomit? Oh yeah, and if any President, in the name of freedom tries to take away people's freedoms and introduce a police state with things like the Patriot(sic) Act, The Patriot Act II, or any sequels thereof, then please make it so that he/she accidentally falls into a big vat at a food factory and gets turned into a Twinkie. Thanks. Much appreciated. Have a good new millenium and maybe we'll see ya soon.

I read the post too and yes it did warrant a visit by the secret service.
1 unlike in your post above it named presdent Bush as the target he/she would like to see killed specifically.
Second the graphic nature of how he/she wanted the president killed indcated strong passions as well forethough
When ever someone in any form of media couples a stated desire to see a president dead with a passionate and vehement tone which indicates strong emotional responses the Secret Service is required to assume its a true threat. Afterall there is a chance that if god does not awnser his/her prayers then he/she may attempt to do it themselves.
Keeep in mind that under Secret Service regulations anyone using more than 3 exclamation marks in a letter/e-mail to the president automatically gets a file created on them.

Hmm, I didn't know about the "!!!!" rule. An interesting indicator of the sensitiveness of the SS to these issues.

However I still disagree that her post would qualify according to the criteria that you quoted, if those are indeed the criteria that are used by the SS for judging a potential threat. I found the post to be passionate, yes, but not vehement, nor carrying what could be characterised a strong emotional response. In fact, there was a very tangible flippant, tongue-in-cheek note to the post.

This is not a personal attack, but to quote your own signature: "Freedom of speech means people have the right to be as*holes."
This woman just lost that right.

Well since that person used God shouldn't that have been ok since there is that seperation of church and state thing going for them?

Bottomline if you threaten the presiden'ts life ie.. 'I wish I could take a gun"... etc... then expect to be paid a visit. Many people have said similar things on this forum. People don't understand that these forums are spidered with key phrases and YOU WILL GET CAUGHT posting inuendos that have to deal with any perceived threats.

Use your brain when conversing and you won't have a problem.