French secret service agent 'Denis Allex' among dead in failed raid to free hostage

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posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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French secret service agent 'Denis Allex' among dead in failed raid to free hostage


www.n ews.com.au

TWO French soldiers and 17 militants have been killed in a failed bid to free a French hostage held by Islamists in southern Somalia since 2009, French's defence minister says.

The overnight operation was launched by France's elite DGSE secret service, Defence Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in a statement.
(visit the link for the full news article)


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posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:26 PM
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WOW! What a story! A french secret service ajent was captured in 2009 and has been a hostage ever since. French secret service failed to recover him on a raid which left many dead and a wounded French soldier in the hands of thier enemy. I sincerely hope the captured soldier will be okay. The French believe the hostage is dead but the millitants claim he is safe and alive.

www.n ews.com.au
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 11:47 PM
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Great, they went in to save one hostage and now they have two.. I can only see this getting worse also.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 05:56 AM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 09:55 AM
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post removed because the user has no concept of manners

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posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 10:00 AM
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Their going to torture and kill the hostages anyways, use them as collateral..

France should just drop a 10ton bomb on the whole place...

Get rid of the terrorist and free the agents from all the agony...

I wouldn't let my people be subjected to all that pain..



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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They should have subcontracted this to XE or asked the US for help.

As a retired SF Officer, I have seen/trained the French's most elite forces - I'd rate them right up there with say an American Ranger Platoon or some marine infantry in training level. Their Senior NCOs are about as good as one of our senior E4's who has been to Ranger School.

I understand national pride and all but they simply are not good enough to pull something like this off.

Sad... Now they look even more laughable.

Having said that the Para Battalion from the Legion is a bunch of hard core bad asses – at least they were late 80’s early 90’s, they were staffed with a ton of former eastern bloc ex-special forces types.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 12:51 PM
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reply to post by Golf66
 


British aid worker/hostage Linda Norgrove was killed in Afghanistan during a botched rescue attempt by a grenade thrown by a US serviceman from the United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group ... I guess they were the best of the best.

Mistakes happen despite the best training, the best equipment, the best intelligence ... and the best men.

Sometimes you just need luck.



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 01:00 PM
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I thought this was breaking alternative news?

This news is like 2 day old lol...



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 02:42 PM
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Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
British aid worker/hostage Linda Norgrove was killed in Afghanistan during a botched rescue attempt by a grenade thrown by a US serviceman from the United States Naval Special Warfare Development Group


While I am sure you think this observation makes you seem sly and witty. I don't get your point – I fail to see any parallel. The two missions are not even remotely similar in their outcome.

In the situation you reference the hostage was at the location. In the French raid the hostage was elsewhere not even there which indicates that US intelligence at least had the location of the hostage correct.

In the situation you reference none of the operators were killed. All of the captors were killed the hostage rescued while still alive (she died in route to a hospital) and the location secured and searched for intelligence information which lead to additional successful raids. While the death of the hostage was tragic it was a known possible outcome. the French mission the hostage was not even at the location… Several of the operators died, they killed 3 innocent bystanders. The raid was a complete failure even had the hostage been there they failed to secure the location. Oh and they had another operator taken hostage...

The two are not even remotely close and while the US can claim numerous successful hostage rescues with zero collateral damage, all hostages recovered completely uninjured and returned and no operators killed or injured – the French I don’t think have ever pulled off such a mission in recent memory.

In a hostage rescue the risk to the hostage is great. In effect it is the decision point for the execution of the mission. To conclude that the risk of death or injury of the hostage by the team or the captors during its execution is actually less than taking no action at all. Often the whereabouts of a hostage are known for long periods of time with the team on call and rehearsing – the mission is not launched until there is information that indicates that the balance has tipped in favor of action over inaction. I did do this for a living for nearly 24 years.

I am not excusing the actions of the Sailors who conducted the rescue attempt – there is really no reason to ever throw a grenade when there are hostages about; however, I can say that the hostage should not have run around the compound. She should (as should anyone during a rescue lay face down with your hands behind your head. She left the room they knew her to be in and ran out into the gully. She panicked the SEALS screwed up and then lied about it which is why they were disciplined.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity
... I guess they were the best of the best.


Yes…


Originally posted by LeBombDiggity Mistakes happen despite the best training, the best equipment, the best intelligence ... and the best men.


Too bad the French evidently have none of these… They failed to locate the right facility (intelligence fail), they killed several bystanders (poor fire discipline), lost several operators (poor security) and got another one captured (just pathetic apathy)... Doesn’t sound like they were all that high speed to me. The whole unit would have had to been lost before one of my men would have been captured as we do not leave the wounded behind for the enemy to take.


Originally posted by LeBombDiggitySometimes you just need luck.


They didn’t seem to have any of that either – they did have hope; however, hope is not a plan.
edit on 13/1/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)
edit on 13/1/2013 by Golf66 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 03:26 PM
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Originally posted by Golf66
She panicked the SEALS screwed up and then lied about it which is why they were disciplined.


Exactly. The SEALs screwed up in that situation, and you agree. Therefore, the other poster was right that with all the planing and intelligence done...the mission can still screw up horribly.

Everyone makes mistakes, whether they be American, French or any other country.

Why do you enjoy ragging on the French? They may not be up to the same standards as the likes of the US, Britain or Australia, but they still do a damn good job.
edit on 13-1-2013 by daaskapital because: sp



posted on Jan, 13 2013 @ 04:07 PM
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Originally posted by daaskapital
Exactly. The SEALs screwed up in that situation, and you agree. Therefore, the other poster was right that with all the planing and intelligence done...the mission can still screw up horribly.


The difference is there is a long track record of success to offset the mistakes. France attempting a hostage rescue when they have never successfully pulled one off is completely different. The Afghan Army has an SF unit now but that doesn't mean we let them do hostage rescues. They don't have the experaince and base for it.
.

Originally posted by daaskapital
Everyone makes mistakes, whether they be American, French or any other country


No one is arguing this.


Originally posted by daaskapital
Why do you enjoy ragging on the French? They may not be up to the same standards as the likes of the US, Britain or Australia, but they still do a damn good job.


I don't enjoy "ragging" on the French I was merely pointing out that in my opinion they don't have the forces capable of pulling it off based on my experiances with them.

If you think that is "ragging" you are welcome to that opinion. I was making an obeservation about one thing to which another poster had to refute with a counter of - well but so in so also makes mistakes.

I can find lists of cock-ups a mile long for any force from every country the point is why conduct a mission that you know your forces lack the expertice to pull off? Is there one example of the French corrdinating and pulling off a sucessful hostage rescue on foreign soil - ever? Not in modern history that I know of.

If I said that X happened because they were unprepared and inexperianced the counter is well so, everyone makes mistakes? That is assinine IMO. True everyone makes mistakes but one also doesn't send the Bad News Bears to play the Yankies in the World Series and expect them to win. I'm sure the coach of the Bears thinks them the best team ever but objectively they just won't make it.

All they had to do was ask for help and we'd have done it for them I am sure - we are allies after all.

I would have opined the same about any number of countries if they tried to pull something off with "SF" that I felt based on my personal experaince should not have tried it. It's not about the French. I like french fries and quiche...

Chill





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