What was Adam thinking?

reply to post by DrunkYogi


If the leanings of 90% of the population are any indicator, and if you take the bible at it's word that Eve convinced him to do the one thing they were not allowed to do, than Adam was one dumb individual.

Originally posted by JBA2848
I would say he was a experiment of the first person chosen to be sheltered and groomed into a elite. He was chosen to learn the farming and seasons. He was to be trained to be one of the first farmers in a land that was full of hunter gatherers. And they found just by simply removing a person from society does not mean he will be pure and innocent of evil or sin. Yes people learn to do things from others. But they also learn to do things all on there own. That is why it is important to teach them the right way. And it is important to teach them there are consequences for doing something wrong.

No farming until after the fall.
Before that, everything they needed, food included was given freely, they worked for nothing and lived in total harmony with God and everything around them.

Once Adam and Eve were separated from God because they chose rebellion, the Watchers were sent to teach and guide them as mediators for God. Otherwise, He would have just continued to do it Himself.
Only then did they have to "eat bread by the sweat of their brow".
You can't have love if you don't have choice.
You can't have choice if you don't have option.
The option for the first two prototypes of human beings was life or death, trust and humility or rebellion and pride.
It wasn't an apple, it was an action of free will based on a choice-- to love themselves, and become slaves to creation or to love God, and be free for eternity.

Originally posted by windword

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Logarock

 

So, do you disagree with Noturtyical, when he said that Adam was not deceived, but chose to eat the fruit because he loved Eve sooooooo much?

By they way, you can't separate Eve from Adam, because was made from Adam, was drawn out from within him, and placed in front of him as his companion. Eve was not a sovereign self determined person, she was Adam's inner feminine aspect.

These Abrahamic religions continually deny the feminine aspect of spirituality,yin and yang, as demonstrated in their tenets of the oppression of women.

What does 1 Timothy 2:14 say?

Who cares? We're talking about Genesis, and what Adam thought.

Well, the Christian position is that every book is the inspired Word of God, including 1 Timothy.

The first language is called language of the birds. This is what Adam supposedly used to communicate with animals and his environment. Solomon is the next individual that is given this power, to communicate with nature itself. It is also called angelic language, green language, and many other names. Almost every culture carries stories and myths about this magical language that allows humans to communicate and interact with creation.
What Adam was thinking is an interesting question to ask.



There is no apple mentioned in the Genesis, it is detailed as fruit of the tree of Knowledge. The term good and evil are used in ancient languages to denote entirety, this would translate today into knowledge of everything. It was not moral or sexual knowledge that the fruit represented, but knowledge of all things. This also meshes with panicky reaction God(s) have when they do eat the fruit and drive them out lest they eat from tree of life and become Gods themselves. This myth abounds in many cultures and in many forms, in the end it is Humanity's split from Nature

This story in Genesis is allegorical on many levels, and unfortunately used to justify actions for thousands of years and create irrational notion of original sin, subjegation of women, structure of the organized church, etc.

if you look at it another way.....2 people 1 male 1 female naked in a beautiful garden .....watched by who?

someone was kindda kinky

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Okay. If this is so important : 1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Then my argument, which you have yet to address, is a valid argument.

If Adam knew that Eve had been deceived by the "most clever beast" in the garden, and knew that she was under a nefarious influence and yet joined her, eyes wide open, as he willing made the decision to disobey God's command not to eat the fruit, then he was the greater transgressor. He should have been the one to bear the pain of childbirth and be subservient to the woman.

"Once bit twice shy." The woman, Eve, learned her lesson, after being tricked. But Adam, took part in that trick, aiding and abetting the snake by sharing in the fruit, knowing full well that the woman was under a spell. Man can't be trusted to care for woman and not to lead woman astray, as Adam has demonstrated. Yet man is exalted above woman, due to her deception, according to the Bible. And the Bible's laws, demanding the suppression and oppression of woman is proof that men can't be trusted to lead women their rightful place in society.

Paul, as a Roman citizen, was well aware of the "Goddess" presence in Roman and Greek society and worship, and was in conflict with the elevation of the female aspect of God, by these societies. Paul, in his letters to Timothy, obviously takes the Garden of Eden story literally, while many Christians see the story as allegory. Paul uses the story as an attempt to promote the duality and separation theme from the Old Testament Torah, undermining female influence and alienating the natural voice of woman in society.

So, while Christians believe that they are dead to the law, under the New Covenant that "Christ's" supposedly represents, Paul cherry picks which laws he wants to keep and promote as commandments in his new religion, having a special penchant for the laws that support suppression of women and homosexuality, which was also embraced in Roman and Greek society.

the snake was a mistake, especially one that talks.

Also the snakes punishment was " you shall slither on your belly all your days"

Pretty poor punishment for a snake.

Even God isn't infallible....

I don't think a character in ancient myth that represents the natural condition of human consciousness and curiosity in a vast and mysterious universe, is "thinking" anything. Adam isn't real, he's just symbol in story to make a point.

-TheGhoster

Well, we know that Adam was lonely since it was recorded in Genesis. So God created Eve. Then even though it isn't specifically mentioned in Genesis I believe they had many children and populated the earth. A few indicators of this is that one of the repercussions from their sin is that childbirth would now be painful. Another indicator is that when Adam's post-Eden descendants traveled around earth they encountered cities and tribes. Cain and Abel were the first post-Eden children, and Seth also gets some attention although I'm sure in their 900 years of cursed life they had many children.

check the first 2 verses about the creation of man. the word there is adam, not man. it's important to realize what that implies in the backdrop of the verses.

if adam (a plural word) is created in the image of the elohim (a plural word) and some are male and some are female, this means the adamic race contained males and females. they weren't procreative (no reproduction) because new adam were created in the image of the elohim.

then the story of eve. eve is called eve in the text, BEFORE adam actually calls her that, so it's foreshadowing.

when we first see eve, she's just another member of the adamic race. what differentiates her and the male adam she partners with, is the ability to know: (adam knew his wife and she begat) to procreate, to create new copies of the adamic race like the elohim did, but without assistance or direction of the elohim. knowing good and evil is referring to creating good and evil, but in the case of the procreative adam, it meant procreating good and evil.

they were not hermaphrodites when the story begins. the text is trying to tell you that new adam would no longer be made in the image of the elohim but in the image of the adam -- thus the new eve is made from the dna of the adam. there were male adams and female adams created in the image of the elohim initially.

to me, it sounds like it's saying the entire thing was a 3 step process:
1) the copying/duplicating/cloning of new adam (males and females) from the elohim templates
2) the change to copying/duplicating new adam via copying of adam dna rather than elohim dna (?)
3) the decision to accept and engage in, procreation. (the fall narrative)

i think the writer (moses) is telling the data, from both the egyptian and mesopotamian tradition because, if you recall, noah's descendants via ham (chem/egypt), would've taken the original mesopotamian story to egypt after the black sea flood. and moses would've learned it while in the pharaoh's household, albeit after many generations, and his mother, who was his nanny in pharaoh's household, would've taught him the original mesopotamian story as well, albeit many generations after the black sea flood. i can imagine him at that point, praying for guidance over which parts were legit. lol

reply to post by undo


Did you come up with that theory on your own? Or did you find it somewhere? If so, where did it come from? It's an interesting theory. I haven't seen it before.

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by undo

 

Did you come up with that theory on your own? Or did you find it somewhere? If so, where did it come from? It's an interesting theory. I haven't seen it before.

it's actually in the text, here: (the numbers are the strongs concordance numbers so the reader could look up the original hebrew words used)

Gen 1:26 And God 430 said 559, Let us make 6213 man 120 in our image 6754, after our likeness 1823: and let them have dominion 7287 over the fish 1710 of the sea 3220, and over the fowl 5775 of the air 8064, and over the cattle 929, and over all the earth 776, and over every creeping thing 7431 that creepeth 7430 upon the earth 776.

Gen 1:27 So God 430 created 1254 man 120 in his [own] image 6754, in the image 6754 of God 430 created 1254 he him; male 2145 and female 5347 created 1254 he them.

the first verse there says, And Elohim said, Let us make adam in our image, after our likeness and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea (etc etc)

the second verse there ways, So Elohim created adam in his own image, in the image of Elohim created he him, male and female created he them.

so yeah, the information is right in the text.
she's really not eve, till she's a mother (that's what eve means) and shes not mother till the fall narrative. in addition, the word for eve, when she's simply called woman, is not a variant of adam, even though it should be if she's being made from adam dna. so moses is foreshadowing how the woman is different from the other adam, not because of her gender but because of her soon to come procreative ability. it's foreshadowing of a future event. approach the story like a logic puzzle written in a timeline that is not unfolding in real time -- it's jumping backwards and forewards and in the moment of the events its describing, as well .

here's the concordance listing so you can check it out for yourself
www.blueletterbible.org...

see above

p.s. just check the meaning of "wife" in the text, in the original hebrew it is: "ishshah"
and so is the word "woman". to consummate her wife-hood, she must know adam.
to know adam, she must procreate, to procreate, she becomes mother. to become mother
she is called eve. so eve=ishshah=woman=wife. all the same description using
different words that differentiate the previously made female adam, who didn't procreate and
was created in the image of elohim, from the female adam who can procreate and is created
in the image of adam.

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Okay. If this is so important : 1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Then my argument, which you have yet to address, is a valid argument.

If Adam knew that Eve had been deceived by the "most clever beast" in the garden, and knew that she was under a nefarious influence and yet joined her, eyes wide open, as he willing made the decision to disobey God's command not to eat the fruit, then he was the greater transgressor. He should have been the one to bear the pain of childbirth and be subservient to the woman.

"Once bit twice shy." The woman, Eve, learned her lesson, after being tricked. But Adam, took part in that trick, aiding and abetting the snake by sharing in the fruit, knowing full well that the woman was under a spell. Man can't be trusted to care for woman and not to lead woman astray, as Adam has demonstrated. Yet man is exalted above woman, due to her deception, according to the Bible. And the Bible's laws, demanding the suppression and oppression of woman is proof that men can't be trusted to lead women their rightful place in society.

Paul, as a Roman citizen, was well aware of the "Goddess" presence in Roman and Greek society and worship, and was in conflict with the elevation of the female aspect of God, by these societies. Paul, in his letters to Timothy, obviously takes the Garden of Eden story literally, while many Christians see the story as allegory. Paul uses the story as an attempt to promote the duality and separation theme from the Old Testament Torah, undermining female influence and alienating the natural voice of woman in society.

So, while Christians believe that they are dead to the law, under the New Covenant that "Christ's" supposedly represents, Paul cherry picks which laws he wants to keep and promote as commandments in his new religion, having a special penchant for the laws that support suppression of women and homosexuality, which was also embraced in Roman and Greek society.

Your good and handy at warping the story there. The story doesnt back the conclusion.

oh and one more thing: if the male and female were created in the image of elohim, why does it say the woman was created from adam? there's only 2 possible answers to that question:

1) female adam existed before the "woman" (et.al before the procreative female adam)

or

2) elohim and adam are the same thing.


there's no other option, at least, that would be consistent.

Originally posted by undo
oh and one more thing: if the male and female were created in the image of elohim, why does it say the woman was created from adam? there's only 2 possible answers to that question:

1) female adam existed before the "woman" (et.al before the procreative female adam)

or

2) elohim and adam are the same thing.


there's no other option, at least, that would be consistent.

edit on 14-1-2013 by undo because: (no reason given)

Then before the fall Adam was like the good elohim and after like the fallen elohim.

There is inscripture a mention that the Almighty wanted to teach the angles, the elohim.....having them watch man on some sort of the theatre earth would help them learn many things.

reply to post by undo


Its my opinion that Adam and Eve is a story made to understand how the male and female came to be but its not an exact truth, so to speak.

Without gender is where the story in my opinion begins and when they split they became both male and female. Dual souls if you will.

On the other side, or heaven we probably more than likely do not have a gender or body type, more of an energy whereas thought creates. Nothing like here in this realm.... at all.

We try and try to understand what its like but our minds build throughout our life time and ones revelation does not make for another and so on. Each of us experience a reality separate from another but each of us having an effect in their space time as well.

Consciousness is where "God" can be found. The creator is found in all of its creations and there is nothing but love given to create. Here we experience negative feelings but the negative is needed to understand and learn while here.

Adam to me is simply an expression and story of mankind as a whole. An atom can be split the same. Quantum Mechanics show us the dual nature as well.

also consider that the old testament is the story of one, read ONE, family tree out of countless family trees. the entire purpose of the old testament is to show lineage of that single family tree that culminates in the new testament with the birth of jesus. so the question where cain's wife came from is easy to answer. there was more than one adam, both male and female adam were called adam till the advent of procreation. and by then the story focuses only on that one family tree. it doesn't mean there were no other adam, male or female, before the adam and eve story. it's just not focusing on the rest of the planet's inhabitants

Originally posted by xXxinfidelxXx
reply to post by DrunkYogi

 

If the leanings of 90% of the population are any indicator, and if you take the bible at it's word that Eve convinced him to do the one thing they were not allowed to do, than Adam was one dumb individual.

Before and during the writing of the Bible many stories could have been embellished and most likely probably where. I think we obviously don't repeat what we here word for word. i.e. Chinese Whispers.

He was just like us, ignorant and full of curiosity. I would venture to guess that his thinking mind wasn't as LOUD and full of religious and spiritual garbage like ours. And he didn't have religious books hanging off his neck, nor any ignorant, unawakened idiots pushing concepts of God and Creation on him.

Come to think about it, Adam probably had more clarity in life, then your average brain sponge today.

BTW, The concept of enlightenment exists only in the minds of people who are asleep.