Birmingham stabbings: Stab victims were Big Issue sellers, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times

Topic started on 12-1-2013 @ 02:16 PM by bates

www.bbc.co.uk...

The two men stabbed to death in front of shoppers in Birmingham city centre were Big Issue sellers, the publication has confirmed.

Officers said hundreds of people may have witnessed the stabbings in Union Street at about 17:50 GMT on Friday.

The first man was stabbed outside Sainsbury's and the second was found slumped outside Boots side entrance.

Minutes later, a 23-year-old man was arrested in New Street near to Odeon cinema. He remains in custody.

Just to give a quick bit of background for non UK based members.

The big issue is a uk charity magazine that homeless people sell to give themselves a bit of cash, I think it's around £2.

The Big Issue

This crime has caused a bit of shock in my home city of Birmingham, which is quite a violent place at times with its fair share of stabbings and even the odd shooting (we do still get them in the uk despite guns being largely illegal).

It seems the two victims were targeted either for being homeless (the fact they sell the magazine being the giveaway) or by an ex Big Issue seller with a grudge against the magazine. The guy they have arrested obviously didn't care about getting caught, the amount of cctv and witnesses about in is ridiculous in that part of the city. It's also very 'deep' in so you've got a good 10 minute walk in all directions before you can even think of any sort of getaway as it's all pedestrianised.

Not sure what else to add at this time.

Shocking stuff.

edit on 12-1-2013 by bates because: (no reason given)

edit on Sat Jan 12 2013 by DontTreadOnMe because: ex tags IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:22 PM by IvanAstikov

Big Issue sellers on the whole are pretty street-smart, after all that's where they spend a lot of their time. That this man was able to get near enough to them to do what he did, indicates he either knew them or he didn't look like a likely threat. I'm more inclined towards the former.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:29 PM by jimmiec

You guys should get yourselves a copy of the Second Amendment. It affords you the right to protect yourselves against people like that. Somehow i don't think you can ban bad people or mentally ill people, which leaves you easy prey for the deranged killers among us all.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:32 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by jimmiec

We can defend ourselves, It is just a pity people got killed.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:36 PM by jimmiec

reply to post by boymonkey74

You probably can, what about older people,elderly people,disabled people,whimpy people? YOU, does not encompass the whole of the society you live in.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:37 PM by darknewt

reply to post by jimmiec

do homeless people walk around with guns then ?

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:43 PM by TheDoctor46

Yea its a shocker. Not much released on who did this,. But 10-1. Hes a fruitcake.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:48 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by jimmiec

No you missed my point, by law we have the right to defend ourselves.
We choose not to use a firearm to do it (Just stating the facts not looking for a fight dude)

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:48 PM by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by jimmiec
You guys should get yourselves a copy of the Second Amendment. It affords you the right to protect yourselves against people like that. Somehow i don't think you can ban bad people or mentally ill people, which leaves you easy prey for the deranged killers among us all.

Put your self in their position and imagine someone has come up to you and your friend and asked for a copy of the magazine you sell. As you hold out the mag ready to exchange it for some money, he instead pulls out a knife and plunges it into your throat, turns to your friend and stabs them in the chest, and as you both fall to the ground losing blood rapidly, continues to slash and stab your bodies. How would having a concealed weapon have protected those two people?

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 02:57 PM by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by jimmiec
reply to post by boymonkey74

You probably can, what about older people,elderly people,disabled people,whimpy people? YOU, does not encompass the whole of the society you live in.

Those who can should look out for them. Or do you want to start giving guns to people with Parkinson's Disease now?

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:42 PM by mykingdomforthetruth

Originally posted by jimmiec
You guys should get yourselves a copy of the Second Amendment. It affords you the right to protect yourselves against people like that. Somehow i don't think you can ban bad people or mentally ill people, which leaves you easy prey for the deranged killers among us all.

Not in britian it dont

for example if a theif broke in your home and you were in if you hit the theif with anything and call the police the police will come take the theif for burgulary and you for assault .

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:47 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by mykingdomforthetruth

Wrong the law states you can use reasonable force to defend yourself.
I was investigated by the police for defending another person in my work environment and I got a bravery award

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:47 PM by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Big Issue sellers on the whole are pretty street-smart, after all that's where they spend a lot of their time. That this man was able to get near enough to them to do what he did, indicates he either knew them or he didn't look like a likely threat. I'm more inclined towards the former.

Given that reasoning, I'd actually be inclined towards the latter. I know a lot of homeless people, and they tend to be more suspicious of people that they do know, than of strangers or 'regular', homed, people. There is a huge amount of competition between those living on the streets in the UK, they seldom stick together.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:49 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

Tank Girl avatar !!!! I love her

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:51 PM by KilgoreTrout

reply to post by boymonkey74

You should see the 100cm by 50cm framed poster on my living room wall. Me love her too. And the glorious Jamie Hewlett for creating her. Plus, she and I have a love of tanks in common

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 03:57 PM by mykingdomforthetruth

reply to post by boymonkey74

reasonable force has a very narrow definition look it up

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 04:00 PM by boymonkey74

reply to post by mykingdomforthetruth

Yes and it is upto a jury to decide, I have no problem with that.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 04:04 PM by Kandinsky

reply to post by jimmiec

Big Issue sellers are homeless. The Big Issue is a charity that helps the homeless to raise money by selling their magazines and keeping a large part of the sales price. The income goes towards paying for a bed for the night and whatever else they can afford.

My point here is that even in the USA (2nd Amendment and all), there aren't many States that would allow someone to carry a gun on the streets when they don't have an address. Likewise, if you were ever as down on your luck as many Big Issue sellers, you'd be selling that gun for more important things like clothes and food.

The two victims were stabbed to death at close quarters. The killer would have been close enough to feel the fabric of the clothes they were wearing and heard their last breath. It's a nice idea that guns are a prophylactic against violent death, but they can't protect everyone in every situation.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 04:27 PM by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
Big Issue sellers on the whole are pretty street-smart, after all that's where they spend a lot of their time. That this man was able to get near enough to them to do what he did, indicates he either knew them or he didn't look like a likely threat. I'm more inclined towards the former.

Given that reasoning, I'd actually be inclined towards the latter. I know a lot of homeless people, and they tend to be more suspicious of people that they do know, than of strangers or 'regular', homed, people.

In my experience, they tend to surround themselves with alcoholics and drug addicts, so it doesn't totally surprise me that this happened finally.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
There is a huge amount of competition between those living on the streets in the UK, they seldom stick together.

I've seen Big Issue sellers in little groups many times. Based on the sparse details available, I'm going to guess it was a dispute that spiralled out of control in second, rather than someone who'd never had any previous contact with them killing them for being Big Issue sellers or being homeless.

reply posted on 12-1-2013 @ 04:32 PM by KilgoreTrout

reply to post by IvanAstikov

When they attack each other it tends to be at night, when all the 'normal' people have gone away and the witnesses are minimal, from what they tell me. Unless it is a territory dispute, and the attacker is themselves a Big Issues seller, which is plausible, that happens a lot, though not usually to this extreme.

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