Humans Are Evil, And We Should Exterminate Ourselves!

reply to post by Klassified

I spent decades of my life believing we were all evil, and there was no hope or redemption for us as a species left unto ourselves.

So, what made you change your mind?

Is good and evil set in stone or created by man in which case it boils down to a "Point of View". One must ask several questions to determine what is good and evil to an individual. Much like many arguments there is no absolute in good and evil unless one believes there is in which case there will also be those that do not. One can treat good and evil like a democracy and go with the vote of a majority. Do you believe in God or gods and if so is what they say good because they say it or do they say it because it is good. If they say it because it is good then where did they get their point of view? If you believe in fate then choices really should not matter because the future is already determined. Or some follow the end result and whether or not the actions leading to it justify it.

We know right and wrong yet we still do wrong.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by brookster18

 

I spent decades of my life believing we were all evil, and there was no hope or redemption for us as a species left unto ourselves. So I do understand what you're saying overrall, even if I may not understand some of your finer points.

Here's my point. No one could have convinced me to look at it with a fresh pair of eyes, though many tried. I couldn't see the "forest for the trees", and worse, I wasn't really trying to. All I wanted was confirmation of what I already believed was true. And I got it. Because if you look for something hard enough, you'll probably find it.

Thanks for sharing your views on this topic. I genuinely appreciate the input you've given.

edit on 1/12/2013 by Klassified because: formatting

edit on 1/12/2013 by Klassified because: clarity

OK

I see your the Opening Poster which makes you king of this thread, so respect for that, and apologies if I didnt follow your argument too clearly. I think you pussy footed around the opening in a way that anyone would, ie you gently introduced the notion instead of diving straight in and calling humans as evil as a hoard of locusses.

I dont think evil is as clear cut as religion would have us believe.

But, you reffer to one of your premises, we are able to adapt our environment. We can build homes, store food, create tools to make it easier to survive and flourish. This sets us apart from animals. But instead of helping them we enprison them in fields and murder them to eat. Even when were not hungary. and far worse.

As such, I would say we are different, and have to be looked at differently, and unlike the locust which is traditionally identified as evil and the harbinger of doom and worthy of only slaying, we can change, but we dont.

If you are looking at concepts of good and eveil, I think its safe to say our species are not good. If we were good we would ride around on unicorns and birds would sit on our shoulders. As such, by reasoning that we are not good, we must be evil. But that doesnt mean we go around eating babies and inflicting pain.

I think what i was saying before should be taken as ideas, not 'facts'. I dont know if we are evil, its a bizarre concept, but I see us as evil. Personally, I see men as evil, mainly for the reasons mentioned before.

As you say, we can adapt our environment, that means we have a greater responsibility, but with that we go to war and destroy the earth.

We havnt done much good. Creating national parks is just taking what nature hand and then giving it back at $40 a go.

Man has not invaded countries and aggressivly built water treatment systems and farms and gaurded them with their lives to ensure that other people wont suffer pain. We havnt done that. We have killed people on a humanitarian pretence for oil and political gain.

Where have we sacrificed beyond reason for animals or wildlife? Even for our own kind?

I think its a hard one to take. People find it hard o see themselves as evil.

Its the basis, I beleive for Lutherian christianity which was a major revolution from Catholicism. It described us all as sinners without scope for redemption. Nothing we could do would redeem ourselves, nothing, only god could bless us and he was as likely to bless the wicked as readily as the good. They fought wards over that ideal in Europe.

Im not religious, but it shows accepting ourselves as inherently evil is not new.

Personally, its not a major issue but I do reflect on the fact when I kille a biting insect or a cocroach. Mainly I cant kill anything. How much aggrevation do i need before im allowed to kill? (insects that is).

I was on the beach, and I always talk to the seagulls and other beach birds. I was lying there the other day and a teenager went past, maybe 19 years old with a stick, and then he threw it directly at the seagulls. He clearly with intention wanted to strike one for his own pleasure. I stared at him intensley and he flailed about a bit and then wondered off before finding a sea crab thing which was dead but which he could stab repeatably with his stick. EVIL.

Oh, only evil in a little way, so its OK. ut thats evil. Its not good.

In fact I describe the British Governemnt as evil all the time so thats a better point of reference. My reasoning there is that good and evil must be equally balanced, therefore 50% of us are by default evil. We cant all be good, like looks, its all relative. If I do 10 good things and you only do 5 good things, you are more evil than me. So by rationale, some of us must be evil. And evil can be slight. But evil is only the opposite or absence of good. For example, Landlords are evil as they take other peoples homes and rent them back to them for money. Its not slavery, but its not charity either.

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Klassified

 

I spent decades of my life believing we were all evil, and there was no hope or redemption for us as a species left unto ourselves.

So, what made you change your mind?

I became an atheist, and realized redemption wasn't necessary. What was necessary was to look at the roots of long held common beliefs, that are persistently perpetuated by those who would like us to believe we are innately evil.

ETA: Sorry. Hit the post button too soon.

reply to post by Klassified


I know that, but why?

Originally posted by TheGreazel
Greetings ATS

I Can only say i agree with this most of this , its not that easy though , you become evil i dont believe you are born evil.
But people can Change and become evil or something similiar .
But evil comes with being lost also , having lost your lust in Life.
All my life i have tried to be a good person , with the ultimate goal that when i would be on my deathbed i could look back on a life that existed of service to others.
This has gotten me no where , it only brought me pain tears and low self esteem.
All my life i have strived to do good , yet i had to disband my dream , a dream that for most people will be part of their all day life , yet for me it is something compared to winning a lottery.

Just hours ago it all came clear , no matter how hard i want it , its just never gonna happen ....i guess im Cursed
Every where i come i am getting Ignored , even here on ATS , and i feel this is eating me away , the last year i sadly became increasingly agressive and angry , cause i have to face that besides my friends and family no one will accept my existence ,

its hard to after a decade of service to find out you are left behind , this radicalized me more then i could believe , not against the innocent but against the people that do harm and are anti social.
The only things that keeps me going is my honor code i have taken on ,to give my life for others who cant defend themself ,and the love for my parents.

I gave up my dreams long ago and have no expectations of life anymore at the age of 26, not even my dream of once have a Wife and kids , most people want to be biljonairs or Astronauts , i want to be a Father some day , thats my dream ... it would be the greatest thing ever to come home after a hard day at the job and Hug your loved ones , that is succes , not money , gold , fame or God , i would be more then happy with this ,but with my view of this world will never allow it.

This world has just become.... insane , it's a Gorilla habitat where the word of the strongest is law and the weaker will take the fall.

I hope Nobody takes my rant personal , it is not in any way directed to any one Personally , This is my personal view , i know its not a healthy vision , The last months i am really struggling with the fact there is little i can do or change to benefit this world, nor can i find the Confidence to face my true fear.
It is hard to see yourself fearless and full of energy in most area's While lacking Guts in the only area you actually want.
I just....have to write this off , i cant hold back feelings because then the lid will blow off , i have very little people i share personal feelings with and i never told anyone the "full story"

But maybe now you understand why i Share the OP Title, lets say 60 % of the days i wake up.

TheGreazel.

Man.....I wish I was 26 again. You are still young dude, The right person will come along by just being yourself and being social. The important thing is to always remember to be true to ones self. Don't lose faith

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
Is good and evil set in stone or created by man in which case it boils down to a "Point of View". One must ask several questions to determine what is good and evil to an individual. Much like many arguments there is no absolute in good and evil unless one believes there is in which case there will also be those that do not. One can treat good and evil like a democracy and go with the vote of a majority. Do you believe in God or gods and if so is what they say good because they say it or do they say it because it is good. If they say it because it is good then where did they get their point of view? If you believe in fate then choices really should not matter because the future is already determined. Or some follow the end result and whether or not the actions leading to it justify it.

Exactly. This is a great religious divide in Christianity from the 1500's. Calvanism, Lutherianism etc. I cant remember it all, but s its very interesting.

But more to the point, you have to understand the concept to be it. Cats can be evil as they dont understand the principles or notions, they act upon animal instincts. I have cats outside and if i feed the family (mum and 2 young cats) them dry food or tinned meet the mum watches while the young cats eat, but I just put out chicken bones and i have never seen her so protective of her food, she was running about like something was trying to take it away and growling at her young cats. Was that evil? Ordinarily she would share, but now she growls when given chicken bones. I dont think thats evil, but in humans it might be as we can understand concepts such as greed. We can accept that we are greedy, and understand that our impulses want something and understand that even though it might pain us, we can do a good thing and abstain so someone else can share.

As such, humans are capable of evil and animals not. As such only humans can be evil, and I think by extension that we are.

We all have the choice. Mankind is like the chernobyl reactor and we are seeing how many people we can breed before we run out of oxygen or food or ozone. Our evil complacency is arrogant and contrived. We know what we are doing and yet we continue to breed. We have the choice, to be humble and stop breeding. To observe, unlike cats, that we are capable of evil things and to do a do act and to breed ourselves out.

You can imagine the story, an old legend, about a species that lived on a planet, and when they found out they were evil they, like odiphus, couldnt take it, and they plucked out their own eyes and threw themselves into a volcano so that the walrus and lions could live happily and the earth could continue in harmony and balance.

However, like a bad boy that you know is going to drink drive, man will not do that, man will breed and destroy the earth, engage in wars and pollute the soil with radiation and poison.

Man is the only pestilence capable of such destruction. If we were gods looking on earth like a surgeon would a diseased patient we could prescribe a drug to get rid of the man virus that was acting as a cancer on the planet eating up all the healthy cells.

reply to post by TheGreazel


Hey Greazel,
Greetings back to you. Sounds like you've come upon hard times. I also sense you are a decent guy who expresses respect for others and a code of honor, as you expressed.

This may or may not mean a thing to you. But, you have a lot, I say, A LOT of life to live ahead of you. So many possibilities. Your dream of having a wife and child is a beautiful dream to have. To be a wonderful family.

Ok, so, now here's the hard part. You have got to stop beating yourself up. Make a plan to change your lot in life. You can. Start with some new personal growth. Attraction attracts Attraction. Make yourself more attractive than what you are now. Perhaps you've had your heart broken recently, if that's the case, join the club. Part of life is experiencing loss and pain. That's how we are able to distinguish the beautiful, the love, the joy. It's all not bad.

I'm not going to get on the soap box and preach to you, simply asking you to consider that you have a potentially long and great life ahead of you. You can still make things happen. Small steps. Search out the positive, the goodness, put yourself in positions, events, social gatherings with like-minded people and you will begin to grow and perhaps find that special someone, nothing to lose, and all to gain, including a lot of nice new friends.

Consider that my friend. Love is all you need. All you need is love!!

Peace!! ID

Hitler didn't think he was evil either; we have defense mechanisms and are often rendered oblivious to our faults for a reason. We justify our behaviors and think of ourselves as in the right.

The truth of the matter, however, is that humans, more specifically those living in industrialized nations, are wasteful, lethargic, and harmful to other life on this planet. What other species actively rapes its planet of her resources or dumps all of its waste into her oceans?

reply to post by brookster18


Interesting analogy at the end there. If you are comparing us to cancer needing to be removed, well then the fact that we remain and spread is just success in our function and not evil . The cat is not being evil, I do not think evil exists outside of the mind that perceives it. We defined various forms of what good and evil is and is not for us to understand so it can only apply to us. Sort of like rights, animals themselves do not have them because they can not comprehend them, animals only get rights indirectly through the people that fight for them. The rights in themselves are for the people not the animals. Just as good and evil is for us to describe the duality we battle internally.

Originally posted by TheGreazel
Greetings ATS

I gave up my dreams long ago and have no expectations of life anymore at the age of 26, not even my dream of once have a Wife and kids , most people want to be biljonairs or Astronauts , i want to be a Father some day , thats my dream ... it would be the greatest thing ever to come home after a hard day at the job and Hug your loved ones , that is succes , not money , gold , fame or God , i would be more then happy with this ,but with my view of this world will never allow it.

Whoa, at 26 you have ages to go.

Everything can change.

You need to understand that that place your at where it all made sense is just a place, and like anyplace in far of space and time, the laws of reality are differnet. You'll return from there sooner or later an wont understand why it all made sense.

The sad thing is, it mostly wont ever get better. But you will change your perspective.

Im 42 and i have feril cats outsid emy house and i love it, they are much better than people for many reasons because they dont take nonesense and dont like anyone, not even me. But if I tell you to cheer up as when your old you can stare at cats out your window it wont make you feel much better.

ASs far as evil is concerned. Embrace it and learn humility. Humility is a good one to play with. Once you understand evil will with learn good to a higher level and you'll spot evil in other people more readily too. Maybe. Or maybe not. But at 26 theres a lot that can change.

Obviously i dont know who you are otherwise id offer a talyor made coctail to cure all your whoes.

It is really hard to keep the bad things in perspective.

Only yesterday I was like "that is it, blow the entire world up' because of all the depravity and cruelty but it isn't all bad and there are good people who do not behave like that. (a child was raped and murdered and I just lost my # over it)

but yeah, you are right. Can;t let a few rotten people wreck it for everyone.

I just wish the media would stop focusing on all of the bad. It really does my head in.

I keep looking at the world map to try and keep it all in perspective. Yanno, like there are billions of people on the planet and we only get to hear about the bad things, bad things do happen but not everyone are rapists and murderors.

Originally posted by g0dhims3lf
reply to post by brookster18

 

Interesting analogy at the end there. If you are comparing us to cancer needing to be removed, well then the fact that we remain and spread is just success in our function and not evil

. The cat is not being evil, I do not think evil exists outside of the mind that perceives it. We defined various forms of what good and evil is and is not for us to understand so it can only apply to us. Sort of like rights, animals themselves do not have them because they can not comprehend them, animals only get rights indirectly through the people that fight for them. The rights in themselves are for the people not the animals. Just as good and evil is for us to describe the duality we battle internally.

edit on 12-1-2013 by g0dhims3lf because: (no reason given)

Exactly.

Theres not much more to add, were on the same page. However, if we assume that all beings from micrombes to wales has an assumed perspective on good and evil then we might assume that from the perspective of most animals and planet surgeons, we are an evil in the same way as cancer is an evil.

I dont expect that a polar bear will vist me at 3.30 in the morning and beat me to death with a baseball bat for destroying its habitat, but if we could eveolve is cognitive functionality to the extent that is could graps the issues, understand them and reason a responce, im sure the polar bear will be fairly annoyed at man, and maybe even blame us for not trying harder to repair the damage by maybe building super huge underwater freezing units.

What would a dodo say if it could express an opinion?

Originally posted by Thurisaz
It is really hard to keep the bad things in perspective.

Only yesterday I was like "that is it, blow the entire world up' because of all the depravity and cruelty but it isn't all bad and there are good people who do not behave like that. (a child was raped and murdered and I just lost my # over it)

but yeah, you are right. Can;t let a few rotten people wreck it for everyone.

I just wish the media would stop focusing on all of the bad. It really does my head in.

I keep looking at the world map to try and keep it all in perspective. Yanno, like there are billions of people on the planet and we only get to hear about the bad things, bad things do happen but not everyone are rapists and murderors.

Hey Thurisaz,
I understand exactly what you are saying. For sure, the Mass Media seems to mostly report the negatives a ton more than the good and wonderful stories. We can't hide our heads in the sand, we need to get out there and live life. But we can manage or at least balance out some of that negativity by seeking out things that are meaningful to us.

Just an example, I love nature from all around the world. So I have a bookmark on my internet that brings me right to sites and pictures of the most magnificent scenes of natural beauty.....so I know its out there, and it makes me feel good. I have a bunch of other type of 'positive' sites I have interest in, so but you get my point I think anyway.

You're so right, we can't let those few dumbarses that do such dispicable things, disgusting things such as rape, murder, abuse to distort the other reality that there are tremendously wonderful people, places and things happening in this world. There are people dedicated to helping others, there is kindness, there is compassion, there is charity and love.

We all have bad days, sometimes even bad years.....but I can tell you from personal experience that you can still pick yourself up, and find those all inspiring things that are happening too. Don't give up faith on us yet!!

I sense you already feel this way, and just don't let that bad stuff, cloud an otherwise sunny day!

Peace!! ID

reply to post by brookster18


I would be more worried of a race of superior intelligence coming down to earth. If the previous mentioned animals gained awareness I think they would be tortured and studied, killed off or contained and controlled to prevent growth in numbers.

Extraterrestrials who had only read humanity's corpus of moral philosophy would be forgiven for thinking that human beings base their values on rational reflection and argument. Were they to actually land on Earth however they would be in for a great shock...... taken from book "The Ethics Toolkit"

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
Hitler didn't think he was evil either; we have defense mechanisms and are often rendered oblivious to our faults for a reason. We justify our behaviors and think of ourselves as in the right.

The truth of the matter, however, is that humans, more specifically those living in industrialized nations, are wasteful, lethargic, and harmful to other life on this planet. What other species actively rapes its planet of her resources or dumps all of its waste into her oceans?

edit on 12-1-2013 by DestroyDestroyDestroy because: (no reason given)

You're blaming a whole species for what a handful are doing, and most people don't approve of. Don't place the "sins" of the few on the shoulders of a whole species.

Originally posted by Klassified

Originally posted by Deetermined
reply to post by Klassified

 

I spent decades of my life believing we were all evil, and there was no hope or redemption for us as a species left unto ourselves.

So, what made you change your mind?

I became an atheist, and realized redemption wasn't necessary. What was necessary was to look at the roots of long held common beliefs, that are persistently perpetuated by those who would like us to believe we are innately evil.

ETA: Sorry. Hit the post button too soon.

edit on 1/12/2013 by Klassified because: eta

Apologies for my posting spree but something else I consider evil, religion.

You finally got unhooked. But really. Whatever religion you had, they wanted you didnt they. If they could have had it their way, you'd still be there, praying. Praying to what? What subliminal voice in your head/ What scripture?

I think religion takes peoples personal responsibility away which leaves them prone to manipulation by others and the state. Billions have fallen for it. You through off the chains of religious tyranny and saw what? An apolcylpse Now boat journy to the end or the river? To a grandstand view of hell? Or are you now in the open pastures of a free world? I dont know.

But on the subject of evil etc, I thik religion is evil as its inhernetly wrong (you have a right to choose to beleive if you want, im not saying you dont, but its a free choice) and religion causes a lot of wars itself.

I thoink religion is an age old system for controllin gpeople. Nothing else.

reply to post by Klassified


Well go on then be the first to kill yourself, no one truly cares what you think.

reply to post by Klassified


Humans as a whole is a destructive entity and thus evil. Individually, we are good. Simple as that. There's no evidence to the contrary.