Guns on Campus: You wont shoot your rapist because you'll know him

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posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:33 AM
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In arguing against guns on campus that's what this expert says about it:


The premise is that armed students could better protect themselves from aggressors, including sexual abusers. But IU Sexual Assault Services Center counselor Debbie Melloan says a gun might offer less protection against rape than it would seem to.

“Most sexual assaults happen between people who know one another. You’re going to be in a close, kind of private setting…are you going to be willing to shoot the person that is your friend?”
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Really? You wont stop a horrible thing from happening to you because your attacker might be a friend? You'll just let yourself be raped to save hurt feelings?




posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:48 AM
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Lots of college rapes happen when the girl is passed out drunk. Not sure where a gun will help there. To be honest I REALLY REALLY hate to say this but ALOT of rapes could have been prevented by the female. I'm not saying that taking advantage of a drunk person isn't bad, it's terrible and rape. But women nowadays have lost touch with reality. If I pass out on the street with my wallet hanging out I know It will be gone by the time I wake up. Now if I had a SOBER friend watch my wallet I will wake up with it. Women are using "I was drunk" as an excuse. If you were drunk how do you know you DIDN'T consent and can't remember. How many of us woke up next to a person and barely Rememeber the night? All it takes for someoe to say rape and aww hell. Personally I say ban alcohol on school grounds and school housing and rape will fall like the Berlin wall.

Giving a bunch of irresponsible drunk kids a gun to keep drunk kids from raping and beating other drunk kids is a bad idea.
edit on 12-1-2013 by marbles87 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:49 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


I don't agree with his ultimate conclusion as I think women should be able to protect themselves. Lord knows there is a lot of raping going on in this country. I'm rather militant about this, I think the government should actually give women guns when they hit a certain age and teach them how to use them with the operating principal being "Please delete your rapist from the gene pool".

Now, all this being said, this person does have a point. How likely are you to blast someone if you know them and are friendly with them? If you consider them a close friend? I think it's poor reasoning to keep guns off campus, but I do think this person is correct to say it would be more difficult to shoot someone you knew.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:52 AM
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reply to post by marbles87
 


The theory is that if you're a permit holder and you're carrying a gun you arent the type of person to go out and party and get drunk. And if you were to go out and party and drink you would have the sense about you to leave your gun at home.

Messing up with a gun is a lot of trouble, lawsuits and jail time.

The people I know who carry dont risk their permits, their rights, their freedoms doing stupid things.

No one is saying arm all the idiots. They're saying if your are already armed there's no reason why your rights should suddenly stop because you crossed an imaginary line onto campus.

Being surrounded by drunken idiots is even more of a reason for the responsible adult not to be denied that right.

But that all seems besides the point since this sexual assault expert seems to think you'll just lay back and take it from a "friend."
edit on 12-1-2013 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:55 AM
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Originally posted by antonia

Now, all this being said, this person does have a point. How likely are you to blast someone if you know them and are friendly with them? If you consider them a close friend? I think it's poor reasoning to keep guns off campus, but I do think this person is correct to say it would be more difficult to shoot someone you knew.


Cant the victim see that "friendship" status eroding as the conversation on the couch turns to rape?

It's not like "oops, I raped you."

Or is it? I've never been raped nor have I raped so I'll admit ignorance and lack of experience on this one.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 08:59 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Well, you are looking at it simply from your point of view. You are not the only person on this planet and many people aren't like you. Many women would probably go into shock at such a development. It's not to say it would be treated light by any means, but to pretend all people would know exactly what to do at that given moment is a little presumptuous.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:07 AM
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Bad idea all around.
A woman in either situation is not going to benefit from carrying a weapon, gun or otherwise.
In an intimate, house party setting, a sexual assault will as previously stated, probably occur while she is too drunk to protest, or has had a date rape drugged slipped into her drink and by no means will she be able to use a gun.
Secondly, consider the typical scenario of a lone female student walking on campus at night (what we all picture)...
A potential attacker grabs her from behind.
Does she know how to break free? Have enough time to find her gun in her purse? Can she keep from being overpowered to use it? What if it STILL is someone she knows? Does she still fire? Shoot to maim or shoot to kill?
What does the justice system do if she shoots to maim and the attacker claims SHE was the one who attacked him with a gun?Her word against his.
Mind boggles with scenarios.
IMHO, there is no good reason to put a weapon in anyone hands for any reason. Violence begets violence.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:12 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Very true there are the majority who use weapons as they should be used... A deterant first, a threat second, and a life ender on third strike. Sometimes all three steps happen in a split instant and sometimes all that is needed is the first. But to tell girls "if you have a gun you won't get raped" which is what people are trying to say. Just like if I carry I'm safe from robbers which is not true look at my steps. If the robber wants a gun I am now a target. Now how is a gun going to stop Mary Ann From being raped if her rapist knows she has a gun and won't have access to it.

Smart gun owners never show their gun unless their sights are on a presumed enemy we know who we are. If these college girls gets guns left and right they will show them off and make them worthless. My bro and I were walking to our car behind a group of females. They (girls) were drunk I was sober and my bro and friend drunk. As we walked to the car they started accusing us of following them and threatened to shoot us unless we stopped and she claimed she had a concealed weapon. We were walking to our car. What if we were following a little too close she could have opened up on us for no reason because she was drunk and scared. Now arm a bunch of scared college girls and they will be shooting at shadows.

Guns can help out in a lot of places but a college campus is not where I want to be advocating "buy one if you don't have one" mentality. You don't need a permit to keep it in your dresser drawer which i assume where most real rapes and false rapes occure. Eh bedroom that is which is where the dress is you get my point.
edit on 12-1-2013 by marbles87 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:20 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


Explanation: Uhmmm???



Well, you are looking at it simply from your point of view. You are not the only person on this planet and many people aren't like you. Many women would probably go into shock at such a development. It's not to say it would be treated light by any means, but to pretend all people would know exactly what to do at that given moment is a little presumptuous.


Utter BS and Codswllop :shk:


STOP PLAYING THE VICTIM MENTALITY CARD!


Here is why ...

From the Book of The Samuria ... aka The Hagakure [.pdf] [note Caution PDF file ok.]


Among the maxims on Lord Naoshige’s wall there was this one: ”Matters of’ great concern should be treated lightly.”

Master lttei commented, “Matters of small concern should be treated seriously.”

Among one’s affairs there should not be more than two or three matters of what one could call great concern.

If these are deliberated upon during ordinary times, they can be understood.

Thinking about things previously and then handling them lightly when the time comes is what this is all about.

To face an event anew solve it lightly is difficult if you are not resolved beforehand, and there will always be uncertainty in hitting your mark.


However, if the foundation is laid previously, you can think of the saying, “Matters of great concern should be treated lightly,” as your own basis for action.


The guy who dictated that book was indeed a samuria and he personally cut the heads off of criminals ok! [That detail is also in the same book.]

So ... He is not mucking about at all when he says what he says ... HE MEANS IT! Because HE KNOWS!

Personal Disclosure: So .. ladies and gentlemen ... DO WHAT HE
SAYS OK!


Anything less is indeed foolish and very unwise.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:23 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


Excuse me, but that's not what I said. I am not telling anyone to lay back and take it. If you can't understand that not everyone on this planet will know what to do at any given moment then we are at an impasse here. Some people will not be able to pull the trigger if they know the person, that's just reality.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:40 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


Explanation: I can see that and I am saying education is key to preventing a victim mentality!

If one thinks about who they can and can't shoot before going off on some wild party whilst concealed carrying etc., then one will know who one can and can't associate with due to security reasons.

It is that simple ok!


Personal Disclosure: The ones that don't know or can't make their minds up should maybe not go out and party at all!

To do so would INVITE danger and if you do that then your placing your own life and others in danger and thats completely irresponsible.

Do you concur?



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:47 AM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos


Personal Disclosure: The ones that don't know or can't make their minds up should maybe not go out and party at all!

To do so would INVITE danger and if you do that then your placing your own life and others in danger and thats completely irresponsible.

Do you concur?



No, I don't. The whole "party" angle is false anyway. Most rapes occur during the day and in the victims home. I'm not dealing in what people should do, I'm dealing with what they generally do. I think that's the difference here. I am quite willing to just discuss the way things are as opposed to how I think they should be.

Reality is , educated or not a lot of women would not be able to shoot someone they know. There are men who can't do that.
edit on 12-1-2013 by antonia because: opps
edit on 12-1-2013 by antonia because: added a thought


Either way, rape is a life-threatening situation and whatever the person does to stay alive is the right action be that "taking it" or shooting the person.
edit on 12-1-2013 by antonia because: added a thought



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 09:52 AM
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reply to post by marbles87
 


My thoughts exactly. Guns on campus would just give drunk guys something else to pull out, besides a ruler, when they have their "whos tougher than who" pissing contests. Better to ban housing and alcioholic beverages like you said. "The two biggest problems we face on college campuses today, are alcohol and a**holes."~ Me.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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Are these opinions coming from experience or from watching college movies?

It wasnt that long ago that I was at college and living on campus and yeah, there were some drunks around, but for the most part it wasnt unlike living anywhere else.

Every little commune or town has their irresponsible element.

The way colleges impose blanket bans means that we are supposed to conclude that everyone at that school is irresponsible. And if they are then why are we dumping tens of thousands of dollars into their laps entrusting they will learn anything?

If your town was run like a college it would be dry, a black market of smuggled goods would rule every street corner, your home would be open to random searches, every neighborhood would have an RA making the rules.

What's so different about a bunch of 21 year olds in school trying not to waste 30 grand that makes them so irresponsible?

To add, would the opinions be different if we were talking about commuting students? You dont want somebody who carries all day to just leave their gun in their car in the commuter lot during their night classes after all, right?
edit on 12-1-2013 by thisguyrighthere because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


Explanation: The party is just a metaphor for any moment in anybody's life.

If you can't shoot 'them' then simply don't associate with them ... ever!

Discussing the way things are is fine ... it changes nothing!

Discussing how things logically should be shows the way forward.

Personal Disclosure: As a victim of a gang rape I fully concur that what anybody does to survive is indeed the right actions for themselves, there and then.

However ... I am talking about taking actions that are right for everybody in all places and at all times!

If one doesn't walk blindly into danger then the likelyhood for disaster is seriously diminished.

Do you concur?



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 


I can't shoot my father, so by your reasoning I shouldn't ever speak to him? That's not reality and we both know that. It's fine to tell people they should protect themselves, it's not ok to blame people when they were unable to rise to your expectations in an extreme situation. We are all different people with different personalities. I'm not going to turn it around on a victim, they were the victim full-stop.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:12 AM
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Originally posted by marbles87
Lots of college rapes happen when the girl is passed out drunk. Not sure where a gun will help there. To be honest I REALLY REALLY hate to say this but ALOT of rapes could have been prevented by the female. I'm not saying that taking advantage of a drunk person isn't bad, it's terrible and rape. But women nowadays have lost touch with reality. If I pass out on the street with my wallet hanging out I know It will be gone by the time I wake up. Now if I had a SOBER friend watch my wallet I will wake up with it. Women are using "I was drunk" as an excuse. If you were drunk how do you know you DIDN'T consent and can't remember. How many of us woke up next to a person and barely Rememeber the night? All it takes for someoe to say rape and aww hell. Personally I say ban alcohol on school grounds and school housing and rape will fall like the Berlin wall.

Giving a bunch of irresponsible drunk kids a gun to keep drunk kids from raping and beating other drunk kids is a bad idea.
edit on 12-1-2013 by marbles87 because: (no reason given)


One person is responsible for rape. The rapist. Period.

Yes, women need to be aware and use common sense. But the person responsible....the rapist.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:26 AM
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reply to post by antonia
 


Explanation: Can't .... OR Won't?


The difference is capacity.

If one does not have the capacity [mentally, physically or emotionally] then I agree that one can't do what is required. [example ... the kids at the sandy hook school massacre did not have the capacity to defend themselves for whatever reasons.]

However if one does have the capacity [mentally, physically or emotionally] and then chooses to not act then that is indeed their own fault and they have no one to blame but themselves for their OWN ACTIONS.

Personal Disclosure: Why can't you shoot your father if he is raping you?


[Edited to add] Note: The above is a hypothetical only and I am in no way trying to imply that that members father is anything but a good man ok!
edit on 12-1-2013 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to add the edit.



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:30 AM
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reply to post by thisguyrighthere
 


Yes, unfortunately that is coming from personal experience, however, i should add that my exoerience is from a campus in, kets just say a "questionable area" to put it lightly.

When i say "questionable", i dont mean the area had gangs and people roamng the streets at night, just referring to the general student body and their need to flaunt themselves when intoxicated, to the point of physical violence
edit on 12-1-2013 by dothedew because: added note



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 10:47 AM
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Originally posted by OmegaLogos
reply to post by antonia
 



Personal Disclosure: Why can't you shoot your father if he is raping you?


[Edited to add] Note: The above is a hypothetical only and I am in no way trying to imply that that members father is anything but a good man ok!
edit on 12-1-2013 by OmegaLogos because: Edited to add the edit.


Well, it's purely emotional in the end. He's my father and I've known him as a good man all my life. If that actually happened I'd probably be in shock for quite some time. How could I kill someone I love so much?

The problem is you are judging people from your point of view. I accept that not everyone is like me. Not everyone is mentally able to pull the trigger on someone they know. I don't fault people for that. Telling them what they "should" do is pointless in that regard as emotional reasons are much more powerful than logic for most people.





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