I'm curious, what would happen without law?

reply to post by Vidpci


I'm curious, what would happen without law? i was going to say TSWHTF

But then read this

290 million people killed in the past hundred years by Government. Is it really keeping things in order or is it simply an illusion. Why can't humanity be free? Why is the common man not capable of taking justice into his own hands if need be? And why have we always felt the need to to be ruled over by Kings and Queens when, in the long run, they end up historically committing just as much, if not more, vicious and barbaric crime than the people themselves are capable of on their own? I'm sincerely curious, enlighten me.

and i have nothing only a star and a flag for you friend

Without law there would be no crime because one can not exist without the other. However, to look at the question in a different way, although without law there would be nothing illegal - people have been conditioned to accept certain things as wrong and so without formal law, the regular citizen would more than likely right what they see as wrong in the way that they see fit.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


I'll be brief and just say Amen, and thank you.

Originally posted by LuckyBamboo
Without law there would be no crime because one can not exist without the other. However, to look at the question in a different way, although without law there would be nothing illegal - people have been conditioned to accept certain things as wrong and so without formal law, the regular citizen would more than likely right what they see as wrong in the way that they see fit.

I disagree. Morality is universal.

That said, I think it would vary from community to community. It all depends who gets in power. Everything would be on a much smaller scale, and it's harder to corrupt that. There would still be some basic rules, but they may even be unspoken. Makes me think of this:

"Before our white brothers arrived to make us civilized men, we didn't have any kind of prison. Because of this, we had no delinquents.
Without a prison, there can be no delinquents.
We had no locks nor keys and therefore among us there were no thieves.
When someone was so poor that he couldn't afford a horse, a tent or a blanket, he would, in that case, receive it all as a gift.
We were too uncivilized to give great importance to private property.
We didn't know any kind of money and consequently, the value of a human being was not determined by his wealth.
We had no written laws laid down, no lawyers, no politicians, therefore we were not able to cheat and swindle one another.
We were really in bad shape before the white men arrived and I don't know how to explain how we were able to manage without these fundamental things that (so they tell us) are so necessary for a civilized society."

John (Fire) Lame Deer
Sioux Lakota - 1903-1976

Originally posted by pillock

Originally posted by LeLeu
Places like Somalia is what happens.

Spot on mate.
With no law the people with morals will be over run by those who DGAF .

Are they not already?

Explanation: S&F!

I read recently on ATS this great saying ... [kudos to whoever supplied it and sorry that i forget who you are ]

Anarchy doesn't mean No Order! ... it means NO ORDERS!

Personal Disclosure: Oligarchies will always have a default place on the playing field .. it is up to us to smack mother nature back into her wild places and install a Civilized Republic of Principles.

Why???

Civilization isnt natural ... it is imposed!

However ... civilized society should not be enforced on anybody ... it needs to be opt in ... not opt out.

And we don't even have the current option of opting out.

That ^^^ makes this planet a very uncomfortable last resort ... it is not a picnic camp!

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law.

UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS [un.org]

We need rule of law for a simple reason,
There are too many people with the attitude: When the meek inherit the earth, I'm gonna push them down and take it.

Originally posted by Beartracker16
We need rule of law for a simple reason,
There are too many people with the attitude: When the meek inherit the earth, I'm gonna push them down and take it.

Sounds like the attitude Government has had through history.

Originally posted by Shema
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

I'll be brief and just say Amen, and thank you.

Thank you. I turned that into a thread. Click on the link in my signature to read more related topics. I tend to make threads based on where my reasoning takes me on any given day. The last few threads relate.

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Is religion not the same thing as law? As Government? Thou shall not live as a normal animal on this planet. Thou shall worship scripture above even thy self? Where does it end? The same place it started. Quote the good book all you want brother, the fact is, it's a bunch of pagan and ancient stories thrown together by the Roman Empire to give you false hope in a messiah that's never coming.

It would occur in stages

1. Free for all where the physically strong take what they want when they want it from the weaker
2. The weaker form groups to protect against the individually stronger
3. The more charismatic take the lead of the group to employ the power of the mob against the strongest (government is reborn, locally at first).
4. The only element open to debate is whether continuation of step 3 past one lifetime becomes hereditary (royalty) or some other mechanism (elections, selection by trial) etc.

Originally posted by justwokeup
It would occur in stages

1. Free for all where the physically strong take what they want when they want it from the weaker
2. The weaker form groups to protect against the individually stronger
3. The more charismatic take the lead of the group to employ the power of the mob against the strongest (government is reborn, locally at first).
4. The only element open to debate is whether continuation of step 3 past one lifetime becomes hereditary (royalty) or some other mechanism (elections, selection by trial) etc.

Historically speaking, we've gone 200 years and the constitution is still in place. Yes it is under threat because humanity never changes. We constantly revert back to default which is tyranny. But this idea sticks. And it is the natural progression of what our founding fathers put in place - not gun control and going back to government rule. For the people, by the people. Always and FOREVER!

I'm curious, what would happen without law?

reply to post by Vidpci


Human nature compels us to be tribal. We would ban together in smaller groups and make laws within those groups.

Four things guaranteed in life: Birth, taxes, death, and laws.

reply to post by jiggerj


Explanation: St*rred!

Yes indeed ... but civilization [aka civilized society as opposed to just society aka the herd] is imposed and so human nature which ONLY works in the wild is useless to rebuild with.

Must use domestication which goes against human nature.

Personal Disclosure: So no wonder we end up with ...

Four things guaranteed in life: Birth, taxes, death, and laws.

When people use the wrong methodology.

Humans are wild and get law of the jungle.

Citizens are NOT WILD!

Only Citizens RULE by Constitution!

I spent some time in that place. It was called Somalia and it was literaly hell on Earth. Everybody had a gun, nobody was in charge. The only thing cheaper than guns was life,

reply to post by Vidpci


I'm not understanding the relevance of your response.

If you remove laws and governance from society you will get anarchy and the strong dominating the weak until some form of governance re-forms.

It doesn't matter what the society was before you broke it down. It would all go to hell quicker than you can imagine.

reply to post by OmegaLogos

...domestication which goes against human nature.

Apparently, this is not true. Domestication has to have its own standard of evolution. If a people stay in one spot long enough, they become accustomed to their surroundings. They learn when to fish, when to farm, when and where to hunt according to the migrations of other species. This makes them docile, comfortable in their environment, and allows time for thoughts that aren't always focused on immediate needs.

Originally posted by Bedlam

Originally posted by LeLeu
Places like Somalia is what happens.

Why didn't it happen here? Not saying it was all peaches and cream, either, just seemed to come out a bit differently. Same in, say, Australia.

Because the U.S. did have effective law enforcement, prosecution and legal system backed by police and military power which were respected by the majority of inhabitants.

The cultural and administrative tradition derived from the UK which was a fairly legalistic system whereby Parliament could constrain the monarch in some aspects, and effective (and sometimes unjust) law enforcement was expected.