Real Talk - American Civil War

I hate to imagine it.....coud be like Iraq on STERIODS,
Civil war would spread to Canada, and Mexico.,,,,,perhaps other Central American countries as well.....
Hey maybe we could just make one big counry with freedom and justice for all?
Witn no borders but the North Pole, and the panama Canal?
Think of the boom that would follow.....building houses, water and electricity systems, roads schools and hospitals.....
We would have everything wed need to do it INTERNALLY too!
No need for world trade much....

reply to post by DocHolidaze


I have this weird belief that the Federal government would actually enlist through mandate specific Militias of other jurisdiction to fight Rebel militias. I'm sure they could find a couple they could trick into making them believe they're shooting "terrorists".

Originally posted by Helious

Originally posted by Another_Nut
reply to post by Helious

 

I think that would fall right into "their" hands.

Once you get all the "gun nuts" into the obviously "redneck" states it's easy to see where the battle lines are.

Once people start moving you know the civil war will soon follow.

I think you may be surprised at some of the states that would draw the line in the sand on the assault on the second amendment. They just may not all be "redneck" states. Wyoming is rural but I don't think it's a redneck state and there going to bat. There are other states that have large populations of people that don't live the way the rest of us do, perhaps..... Not so fast and as such still have a better idea about smaller government, constitutional values, living and working from the land and not wanting invasive federal government.

Of course, this is all conjecture but it is educated conjecture based on over 200 years of tradition and knowing that more Americans still believe in the constitution than do not although admittedly, I think the margin grows thinner by the day thanks to the MSM and corporate agenda.

edit on 11-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

That's not the point he was trying to make i don't think. I was about to make the same point.

Once like minded people start moving to states that will support them and those in the state move out that don't want it, then it becomes too easy for the government to kill those who they will then consider their enemies...

Jaden

Originally posted by stirling
Civil war would spread to Canada, and Mexico.,,,,,perhaps other Central American countries as well.....
Hey maybe we could just make one big counry with freedom and justice for all?

If you don't mind, we'll take a pass on your adventures, please. After all, hockey is back, eh?

reply to post by Helious


Maybe we should watch the marijuana-logues for guidance? They have backed off in states that have voted for tolerance.

reply to post by Masterjaden

That's not the point he was trying to make i don't think. I was about to make the same point. Once like minded people start moving to states that will support them and those in the state move out that don't want it, then it becomes too easy for the government to kill those who they will then consider their enemies... Jaden

Unless the current regime wants to lose all legitimacy on a global scale, they would never in a million years start to just kill American citizens because of peaceful non compliance that was asserted through states rights and guaranteed by the 10th amendment. It's not realistic in today's world, ironically because the U.S. government has used humanitarian rights issues and civil atrocities as an excuse to invade, loot and sac so many other nations in recent years, I doubt the international community could stomach the irony of the situation.

Our military would not follow orders to invade a state, to open fire or arrest mass citizens against state rule or have a showdown with local and state authorities. I think our military which is overwhelmingly populated by average Americans can see past the propaganda and can see tyranny taking definitive shape in our culture as of late. I don't think it is the military we have to worry about.

I would worry about DHS agents and various other 3 letter outfits that are loyal to federal power and serve as henchman without conscious to whatever agenda may be at hand. These are the people that kick down doors, shoot dogs and perpetrate crimes against there own citizens and if that is all there is too worry about, I don't think it's anything that we together, as Americans who wan't nothing but liberty and fair justice through our Constitution should fear.

Fear is the key, don't be afraid to do what is right, others will follow your example and if enough of us do exactly that, things will change, winning states, re grouping and even moving could be the answer that can serve to open enough doors so that we can close the one that leads to violence. I am hoping that is the case and I am watching things very closely and should they progress, I will be more pro active outside of ATS even and will try to organize and educate on states rights.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
I just posted this in another thread but you all need to be aware that such discussion could be setting off some serious warning bells out there. Please read this link. You've already been trumped.

Some may advocate "overthrowing" the government, but most Americans simply demand a return to our constitution and to our origins. I dont know in what reality that is seen as a call to overthrow the government.. unless you/they are unfamiliar with our actual domestic and foreign issues. I feel that our government has been overthrown, most of us simpy want a return to what our government was before this coup, and this link you posted should speak to them more than to we the people. If you wish to post law, post it to those who broke federal law and who are proposing to pick and choose which federal law they wish to uphold or disregard.

Originally posted by CosmicEgg
I just posted this in another thread but you all need to be aware that such discussion could be setting off some serious warning bells out there. Please read this link. You've already been trumped.

To Which you refer:

Whoever knowingly or willfully advocates, abets, advises, or teaches the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying the government of the United States or the government of any State, Territory, District or Possession thereof, or the government of any political subdivision therein, by force or violence, or by the assassination of any officer of any such government; or Whoever, with intent to cause the overthrow or destruction of any such government, prints, publishes, edits, issues, circulates, sells, distributes, or publicly displays any written or printed matter advocating, advising, or teaching the duty, necessity, desirability, or propriety of overthrowing or destroying any government in the United States by force or violence, or attempts to do so; or Whoever organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons who teach, advocate, or encourage the overthrow or destruction of any such government by force or violence; or becomes or is a member of, or affiliates with, any such society, group, or assembly of persons, knowing the purposes thereof— Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. If two or more persons conspire to commit any offense named in this section, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both, and shall be ineligible for employment by the United States or any department or agency thereof, for the five years next following his conviction. As used in this section, the terms “organizes” and “organize”, with respect to any society, group, or assembly of persons, include the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.

Um, so that is pretty far reaching and could include just about anyone. It violates the first amendment, those who practice free speech even for political dissent can not be jailed for legal speech.

You could consider any forming of a state militia created for the sole purpose to defend against tyranny as trying to overthrow the government but in reality, it's our second amendment right.

Laws that violate the Constitution and are in direct conflict are invalid and are meant to intimidate. The next time you are stopped in Texas at a roadblock and they tell you to go ahead and pull over into lane 2, tell them.... "no thanks, Ill be on my way." When they ask you for your identification, tell them, "no thanks, Ill be on my way." They will call in a supervisor, make you site there for about 5 minutes then tell you to have a nice day.

Just because somebody threatens you, doesn't mean there going to do it. You can not violate peoples constitutional rights just because you threaten to do so. At least, not yet.

reply to post by Advantage


If only I had more stars to give, they would be yours my friend!

Good thread Helious, SnF... you are starting to grow on me, yet I don't always have the same point of view, and that's perfectly fine

This is a particularly sensitive topic to discuss on a forum like this, because the bottom line in civil war is this: are you willing to KILL your fellow citizens? And this sends off huge red flags for every alphabet agency known to mankind, period. These agencies are all currently involved in (or just staging) a war or terror. Terror is any threat to a government or it populace, but since they are taking the liberal stance on terror it's being construed as anyone with a hostile agenda against anything. These same agencies monitor this site I am sure of.

Having said all the above I will admit as an American citizen I believe in the Constitution, that means all the original amendments including the 2nd. But I want to agree with the OP in that statehood might be a reasonable angle to get a possible nonviolent revolution underway that doesn't involve unnecessary loss of life. Because at the end of the day, whether you are conservative, liberal, american, european, asian, african, you name it, we all share common ancestry and interests and goals: to see our family and friends happy and prosperous, to enjoy good food, health, experiences and company with those we love... and to continue to love those around us that enrich our lives, this is a simple (hippie sounding, yes) but universal concept we share and cannot deny (unless you have bigger issues that need attention before you rejoin the human race).

I also feel slightly like the OP in that this country feels a bit divided (from my limited perspective) and not so in touch with the current government. I am in my 40's in IT (amoungst people half my age) and work for a huge company that every single one of you know of for searching online info (yes, them). I work with the young hip crowd attracted to working for a company like this: the smart next generation in a town known for intelligence. I hear NO talk of politics, even after the election. I see NO political bumper stickers. I hear almost no talk whatsoever of politics other than a murmur about employment. Gun control at work might as well be a non issue since nobody talks about it at the great data mine. My personal group all possesses Nerf Mach-10s with extra styrofoam rounds and uses them often. The younger hip crowd of urban America is emmersed in violent video games and tv shows and wants to FORGET their misery.

Not fearmongering, but do you wonder why alcohol, drugs and gun/ammo sales are up in the US? So many current events feel staged. Even at a huge company the BS is not working anymore and the worker bees seem to be waking up and just starting to ask the right Qs.

I am not ready for drastic measure this exact second even if I might be technically ready for them, there is a huge difference most folks tend to forget. Americans biggest fear for the past 20+ yrs has been their own government and policies.

This is what is hard for us to get ready for, and non-americans slam US citizens for thinking, let alone being PREPARED for it, yet we have history to back it all up. Do we understand how difficult this discussion is yet?

I am here to look at all logical possibilities and options.

reply to post by Aliquandro

Good thread Helious, SnF... you are starting to grow on me, yet I don't always have the same point of view, and that's perfectly fine

Thank you for the kind words. In my estimation, mutual respect is always more important an issue to establishing communication and friendship that being absolutely parallel on every issue so hopefully we have a good base of understanding started.

And this sends off huge red flags for every alphabet agency known to mankind, period

I hear you there and I am in no way trying to send any red flags, I am very simply exercising my right to free speech and speaking how I personally see the current state of affairs. I am advocating nothing except personal thought and inciting no thought but that of adhering to the document that everyone in our government has sworn an oath to uphold.

Should this, in and of itself trigger any "red flags" with 3 letter agencies, I wonder who's problem it is.... Mine, or theirs?

Originally posted by Helious
reply to post by Masterjaden

 

That's not the point he was trying to make i don't think. I was about to make the same point. Once like minded people start moving to states that will support them and those in the state move out that don't want it, then it becomes too easy for the government to kill those who they will then consider their enemies... Jaden

Unless the current regime wants to lose all legitimacy on a global scale, they would never in a million years start to just kill American citizens because of peaceful non compliance that was asserted through states rights and guaranteed by the 10th amendment. It's not realistic in today's world, ironically because the U.S. government has used humanitarian rights issues and civil atrocities as an excuse to invade, loot and sac so many other nations in recent years, I doubt the international community could stomach the irony of the situation.

Our military would not follow orders to invade a state, to open fire or arrest mass citizens against state rule or have a showdown with local and state authorities. I think our military which is overwhelmingly populated by average Americans can see past the propaganda and can see tyranny taking definitive shape in our culture as of late. I don't think it is the military we have to worry about.

I would worry about DHS agents and various other 3 letter outfits that are loyal to federal power and serve as henchman without conscious to whatever agenda may be at hand. These are the people that kick down doors, shoot dogs and perpetrate crimes against there own citizens and if that is all there is too worry about, I don't think it's anything that we together, as Americans who wan't nothing but liberty and fair justice through our Constitution should fear.

Fear is the key, don't be afraid to do what is right, others will follow your example and if enough of us do exactly that, things will change, winning states, re grouping and even moving could be the answer that can serve to open enough doors so that we can close the one that leads to violence. I am hoping that is the case and I am watching things very closely and should they progress, I will be more pro active outside of ATS even and will try to organize and educate on states rights.

edit on 11-1-2013 by Helious because: (no reason given)

How would the international community find out??? All it would take is to continue the lies that the MSM already perpetuates...Which is almost completely in their pocket.

Jaden

reply to post by Masterjaden

How would the international community find out??? All it would take is to continue the lies that the MSM already perpetuates...Which is almost completely in their pocket. Jaden

The international community is not as inept as the American MSM would have you believe. Others are watching just as we are watching them. And world events at this moment in time seem to be a global event, I don't think you can point to any one place right now without seeing unrest and a want or need to return to something better than what it is now.

The only question for us and in large part, the rest of the world is......... How do we get there?

Thank you for the kind words. In my estimation, mutual respect is always more important an issue to establishing communication and friendship that being absolutely parallel on every issue so hopefully we have a good base of understanding started.

You are welcome, I like yer avatar, no offense but it's kinda silly like mine. I think silliness to some degree is required here to be taken seriously, and you may quote me on that if you like.

I hear you there and I am in no way trying to send any red flags, I am very simply exercising my right to free speech and speaking how I personally see the current state of affairs. I am advocating nothing except personal thought and inciting no thought but that of adhering to the document that everyone in our government has sworn an oath to uphold.

Should this, in and of itself trigger any "red flags" with 3 letter agencies, I wonder who's problem it is.... Mine, or theirs?

I know you are not instigating, but merely stating your obvious concern. I would be so bold, but honestly I was more concerned for anyone responding with a strong stance on "domestic policy" so to speak. Lately this overly nutjob gov likes to look at that as plain terrorism. It's like they want to redefine patriotism as terrorism and make anyone who thinks the constitution is a good thing as a "crazy whackjob prepper with guns".

I for one am tired of the shills propagating this myth. I am simply tired of the rights this country instilled into it's doctrines being replaced by corporate policy in the form of new laws and legislation.

Obama will get gun recommendations by Tuesday, Biden says

www.cbsnews.com... -gun-violence-proposals-to-obama-by-tuesday/

reply to post by Helious

All this talk and worrie of another civil war is a big deal for sure. But there is much intell about all this that the net seems to be scrubbed of. Its that fact the goverment already has its own civil fraction in place. I have had a run in with them and they have taken apart my life pice by pice. I have no hope after seeing what i have of having any normale hopefull self controled life if that makes any sense. If self and family defense is a goal you have. So you may have some form of true trust in this game. One must... everyone must learn how not to be hypnotize. And all about its uses ect. That civil arm is being trained in hypno after being hypnoed into complet obedience. They are your friends your wifes. There at your work. They are recruted from all aspects of life. They are also involved in all aspects of life. They focus on schools and churches. And homeless shelters. They try to remake peoples lifes for there own goals. And hypno you into thinking its your goal.
Truth dispels the darkness
Dragon

I would say that the lines have been drawn in the sand, for better or worse. At this juncture in time the ball is not in the people's court. Until we see what steps (if any) are taken there is nothing really anyone can do except try and be prepared for the worst case scenario in the offchance the unthinkable happens. I am hoping cooler heads prevail and people realize the wisdom in the documents that were penned during the birth of the country. I optimistically believe we are not at the point of no return yet, but everyone must realize that the road back to the way things were is not going to be a smooth one. Most people I know have lost faith in government, it is going to take alot of work to regain that trust from the American people.

The divide is there though, the lines are drawn. Hopefully wisdom will prevail and we can work to erase the lines and restore this country and it's reputation to the way it used to be.

reply to post by Darkphoenix77

We are way past the point of no return. The country has already been setup. The ones in the group and the ones not in the group. The ones in basicly have moved up into key positions in basicly all bussnesses. So they controll what happens to the rest get it. Everything eles is just there games. Most are just mind altering shows to prettend they have support. Like gun laws lol they tell everyone that most think a certain way. In fact becasuse a box tells us so most think its true. Most dont even ask the person next to them for a human view. We the seekers of truth. And human honor. Have lost along time ago. Only the users of the black arts rule now. The hypnotist. The lairs. The con men. As a whole our families are divided. Boys no longer turned into men but some form of meekness. All thats left for the strong is hold onto ourselfs fight for what we belive in for surly we will be cast aside for we are not part of the blackness. And when our day comes be happy we did not support the evils of this time.
soon i belive most who stand against will have there lives destroyed like mine. And go out as you chose. The path i now take is one of no form of controll or need for dependancy on there system. I am getting rid of everything i own basicly. They use there system to controll you materialism. If you dont use there credit. Then you only need to work when you need to. Not be as a life long slave. Its crazy but all old teachings warn of this from the old indains. To the old teachings of india. Seems like this happened before. And we all saw how that tured out last time. The evil feeds on itself till it destroys itself. A thief steals from and honest man he gains something. A pack of theives hanging out cant keep there hands on anything leads to more creative ways to own. Self consuming...
truth is a light.
That blinds most
For fear of having to deal with the things they have done
ATONEMENT
Dragon

This country is going downhill at the moment. It is becoming divided and polarized. The question - is anyone trying to stop it, and are they being successful? The answer - no one is trying to stop it, in fact, they seem to be interested in promoting their own agendas to the point where they are accelerating the problem.

Is America's culture improving? Absolutely not. It is a complete mess out there. Decaying families and the fall of healthy values continue. It has nothing to do with religion. Is this improving? No.

What about the police state? What direction is that going? Well, surveillance and invasive procedures are increasing. Is anyone trying to stop that? No.

The last two things I mentioned are going to feed off of each other, and the first one is going to prevent anything positive from being done about it.

For people who understand graphs, it is pretty obvious to see where we are headed.

We need too make a thread of communication with western, central, eastern, northern and southern United States so that every part of our (the Peoples) land is informed and prepared...