The Necessity of Divine Diversity (Trinity) Within the Godhead: A Short Treatise

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posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:02 AM
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Infinity is defined as being without limitations in time or space. Eternity means without beginning or end.

In order for an eternal infinite Being to interact with finite beings - a divine diversity is necessary within such a Being - for by definition infinity/eternity and finiteness cannot simultaneously co-exist. Our Creator, by necessity, would have to enter creation in such a way that was not entire in ability or form ... as Paul writes that Christ emptied Himself for the sake of bodily incarnation. Indeed it was not just for the sake of our reconciliation to the Almighty that He came, but the incarnation itself was/is necessary for the purpose of a direct interface between the Creator and His created. He could not directly communicate with His creation *in His entirety* without extinguishing time/space itself because our Creator Himself assumes the absence of time/space.

Of course a sovereign Creator has the option of creating beings who can traverse between His estate and ours (as I believe He has done) - but in order to interact with us personally, directly, in the first person there *must* be a divine diversity (the Trinity according to the Christianity ethos) within the Godhead. The distinction I am appealing to is the ability of God to relay His message to His creation (angels) and personally interact with his creation (Christ). Mind you I am not calling into question His omnipotent knowledge of His creation nor His ability to communicate with us itself - but His ability to personally communicate with us while also allowing for our continued existence ... for if He were to, in His fullness, immerse Himself in space/time - space/time would cease to exist along with all creatures within it.

My point whole point is to show that an eternal Being *must* contain elements of divine diversity in order to interact with finite beings. I'm Christian and so I believe this requirement was satisfied by the trinity. Of course if there is a sovereign and personal Creator who is NOT the Creator revealed by Scripture, this creator would still need to contain elements of divine diversity.

Thus, Christ was and remains necessary for more than one reason. This is consistent with the Scripture that states, "I am the same yesterday, today, and forever" because as time is the measure of changes in matter ... it only makes sense that, in His realm, there is no change as there is no time. There are yet more reasons still for His visitation. If Christ really is who He says He is, God cannot be accused of living a sheltered life, impervious to pain, fear, temptation, sorrow, loss, etc. If there is a God and He hasn't taken it upon Himself to incarnate as one of His created ... then I fear a higher act of love was devised by the minds of men than by this alleged creator.

Of course all of this is merely one girl's understanding, and crude at that - but the logic is consistent in my estimation.

TLDR; Until we are conformed to His image (the rebirth according to Christianity), with the ability to exist eternally - coexistence is impossible in His presence, in Its entirety, because His presence demands the absence of time.

Regards,

FTE

P.S. This is what I do. I muse, I opine. Sometimes I write my thoughts down. This is no way an attempt to proselytize or coerce as I've seen some Christians accused of here on ATS. Please be friendly and civil. I welcome your thoughts
edit on 11-1-2013 by followtheevidence because: (no reason given)




posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 05:36 AM
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reply to post by followtheevidence
 


Those are deep thoughts. I love this sort of logic and you have made a great case for why God produced us this way. Another aspect of this is the personal nature of God and the necessity of an image being made of God for there to be fellowship. Here is my version:

The text below comes from this thread that I did January 12th last year:



The real question here would be, "Is God personal? To be personal, he would need to be entangled with the whole, yet single unto himself. In other words, does God possess a self separate from others? The answer comes from involution. The answer is, yes we are. Do we have a relationship to the Godhead? Yes, by reaching back to unity from multiplicity. The answer to the separate self of God is then reflected back by the whole outside of the temporal and embodied by the eternal. For anything to be lost, something else must be looking for it. Does the unchanging eternal and unmoved draw us back to the unchanging personal autonomous God? Yes. Because we are a reflected image that moves away and then back as autonomous individuals that are perfected back to the eternal, yet never possessing that eternal perfection. We become one with God, yet never alone. If God were not a unique self, then neither could we be. All that is moved must be anchored against what is unmoved or God simply looks at himself. We know the difference because we only see on way. Those who separate themselves willingly keep those who return unique, otherwise, we are all one. Good and evil is the dividing line. Christ keeps us separate, but able to see and know we are unique. He is the only way for the image to exist.

For those who say we are all one, I say, "only if we are in Christ.". Love is the mechanism of unified faith. Only good and Love can be one with God. Christ Is that perfected single image against the opposite reflection. We could never do this ourselves. This is what the crucified Christ is. Our sin was His burden to bear in the image of imperfection. God sees us through Christ and we do the same looking at God.



Another thread that relates is this one: Involution and Evolution



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:25 PM
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Checking out those threads now. Thank you so much for your contribution!



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 07:13 PM
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To take your thought deeper what is the reason or necessity of the trinity? Personally I believe that it had to be because of the conditions placed upon man and witness of guilt or innocence. If God was singular there would be no witness to Himself. Here are a few example of this thought.
Matthew 18:16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

2nd Corinthians 13:1 This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

Prior to the incarnation we only had two witnesses of God, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit. It took the incarnation of Christ to form that third witness there for establishing that in the mouth of two or three He shall be established.

John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by followtheevidence
 



If Christ really is who He says He is, God cannot be accused of living a sheltered life, impervious to pain, fear, temptation, sorrow, loss, etc. If there is a God and He hasn't taken it upon Himself to incarnate as one of His created ... then I fear a higher act of love was devised by the minds of men than by this alleged creator.


What makes you believe God doesn't feel everything we go through in this life?

How do you know he doesn't share the pain of our everyday life with us?

And if this is the case, imagine the pain and sorrow he goes through every single day because we just won't learn... we continue to kill and steal and destroy for our own selfish wants.

Mans love can not compare with God's




posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 07:51 PM
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Originally posted by followtheevidence


TLDR; Until we are conformed to His image (the rebirth according to Christianity), with the ability to exist eternally - coexistence is impossible in His presence, in Its entirety, because His presence demands the absence of time.

edit on 11-1-2013 by followtheevidence because: (no reason given)


How does this prove the necessity of Divine Diversity (trinity) within the Godhead?



posted on Jan, 14 2013 @ 11:52 PM
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reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 



How does this prove the necessity of Divine Diversity (trinity) within the Godhead?


Because He assumes the absence of time. If God were to just submerge His entire being into physical reality - space/time would be obliterated.

He would then have to visit us in part, in a way that was not entire - shed the mantle of immortality and don the cloak of mortality - for a time. As long as it took to complete His mission.

I am trying to find a different way to explain this but it escapes me. I hope this helps.



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 03:44 PM
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Originally posted by followtheevidence
reply to post by DelayedChristmas
 



How does this prove the necessity of Divine Diversity (trinity) within the Godhead?


Because He assumes the absence of time. If God were to just submerge His entire being into physical reality - space/time would be obliterated.

He would then have to visit us in part, in a way that was not entire - shed the mantle of immortality and don the cloak of mortality - for a time. As long as it took to complete His mission.

I am trying to find a different way to explain this but it escapes me. I hope this helps.


And why would space and time be obliterated? Because He is eternal and infinite?



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 04:13 PM
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reply to post by followtheevidence
 

Makes sense.


And in his love there is an eternity from life to life to explore it in ever greater glory whatever that might mean, but to exist it must manifest at some point, so it's like a threshold, and a foretaste. Then again, the whole thing presented itself in human form, so it's the whole cit and caboodle as the cake that we get to have and enjoy as well.

Christ is our spiritual food as God processed for our enjoyment, and our satisfaction, that's the deep hidden mystery of the triune Godhead where it's no longer eat or be eaten but "here, eat of me" instead.

It's whole and integral, the invitation presented to participate as children of God and co-inheritors with Christ.

The highest framework is a family framework.

We were not left orphaned in our ignorance and folly and in our fall from grace, so it's a love willing to go the distance and take on anything, no matter the cost to retrieve than one lost sheep. That's real love where love to BE love must also be a love of action, a manifest love made known i.e.: communicated.

To be love it must also be a love between a beloved and beloved other, so right there is the beginning of multiplicity in unity.

"... love them, as you loved me from before the foundation of the world."

edit on 15-1-2013 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 15 2013 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by followtheevidence
P.S. This is what I do. I muse, I opine. Sometimes I write my thoughts down. This is no way an attempt to proselytize or coerce as I've seen some Christians accused of here on ATS. Please be friendly and civil. I welcome your thoughts

Don't worry, that 's the function of this sub-forum; "Discuss all things spiritual and share your own faith experiences".

On the "diversity within God", it comes down to the fact that he is a Creator God who also communicates.
If he was just a Creator, but did not communicate, then the Deist solution or the "God is the universe" solution would do.
If we just wanted someone to talk to, then lesser gods than a Creator would do.
But the kind of God who can do both is more complex than that.



posted on Feb, 14 2013 @ 08:03 PM
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Originally posted by guitarplayer
Prior to the incarnation we only had two witnesses of God, Jehovah and the Holy Spirit. It took the incarnation of Christ to form that third witness there for establishing that in the mouth of two or three He shall be established.

John 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
John 1:8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

The KJV declares that Christ (the Lamb) existed from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 13
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 01:59 AM
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reply to post by followtheevidence
 


Oh my God, you cant be serious. Why are the posts on this site so sure of themselves. Your trying to sound so
devine but your quoting out of a book written ages ago that does not apply to living in todays world. The Bible was written by man.Its Flawed and edited to death. Do the faithful just dismiss that? These people claimed to talk to God and its strange how God only spoke to them ,at that time, never again. Why? Because it was made up to control you through blind faith, and its working. Do yourself a favor and grow past it. God isnt going anywhere, but religion is slowly being abolished.Religion is for the weak that refuse to cut the chord. My God, Think for yourself and you will grow closer to god



posted on Feb, 15 2013 @ 07:48 AM
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Originally posted by amestang
reply to post by followtheevidence
 


Oh my God, you cant be serious. Why are the posts on this site so sure of themselves. Your trying to sound so
devine but your quoting out of a book written ages ago that does not apply to living in todays world. The Bible was written by man.Its Flawed and edited to death. Do the faithful just dismiss that? These people claimed to talk to God and its strange how God only spoke to them ,at that time, never again. Why? Because it was made up to control you through blind faith, and its working. Do yourself a favor and grow past it. God isnt going anywhere, but religion is slowly being abolished.Religion is for the weak that refuse to cut the chord. My God, Think for yourself and you will grow closer to god

That book that was written so long ago still applies today and it is the Word of God who by the way never changes.





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