FDA Coverup? Could this be the start of addressing the recent spike in violent outbursts?

Originally posted by Komaratzi11
My 87 year-old grandmother was taking Ambien and had to be taken off of it recently. Apparently, she had been doing normal wakeful activities in her sleep. She freaked out after she woke up one morning and realized she had fried a hamburger and ate it in her sleep that night. Thank goodness she didn't get in her car and try to drive somewhere.

It really makes one stop and think about what kind of things people could do and how we don't know which people are even using these drugs.

Imagine, if you will, these drugs have been found to suppress the bodies natural paralysis to prevent you from acting out your dreams. I know some of my bad dreams would be a disaster to be acting out with no suppression of that internal control system.

Originally posted by Komaratzi11
My 87 year-old grandmother was taking Ambien and had to be taken off of it recently. Apparently, she had been doing normal wakeful activities in her sleep. She freaked out after she woke up one morning and realized she had fried a hamburger and ate it in her sleep that night. Thank goodness she didn't get in her car and try to drive somewhere.

It really makes one stop and think about what kind of things people could do and how we don't know which people are even using these drugs.

Makes me think of the matrix.

Everyone in the world is moving around doing things but they are actually all asleep or something.

Been a while since i watched the movie but you see where i am going with this.

This website below is a website of different people saying what happens to them on ambien

Ambien Expierence

reply to post by Krakatoa


I hear you. That could be a really bad scenario since dreams do have a tendency to be bizarre.

It seems to me that I recall hearing a story about a person near St Louis that did some pretty wild things during sleep while on a sleep drug. I wonder if I can find any info on that?

My grandma is still pretty with it, but she seemed adamant that it was the drug and she had never been this way prior to taking it.

reply to post by Epirus


Ambien is a partial benzo. It affects the same areas of the brain in the same way but in less efficiently.

Originally posted by Komaratzi11
reply to post by Krakatoa

 

I hear you. That could be a really bad scenario since dreams do have a tendency to be bizarre.

It seems to me that I recall hearing a story about a person near St Louis that did some pretty wild things during sleep while on a sleep drug. I wonder if I can find any info on that?

My grandma is still pretty with it, but she seemed adamant that it was the drug and she had never been this way prior to taking it.

If this was possible, I can imagine a scenario where a shooter gets up out of bed, in a dream state thinking he is being chased by zombies (or something), grabs his weapons, gets in the car, drives to a mall or some place where he would know he would be with real people, only to find he is surrounded by them. He opens fire, then wakes up in the middle. Realizing what he's done, he kills himself in punishment or grief.

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by Epirus

 

Ambien is a partial benzo. It affects the same areas of the brain in the same way but in less efficiently.

No it's not

reply to post by Epirus


It effects the BZ1 receptor that makes it what?

reply to post by Krakatoa


That would make a lot more sense than a few unlikely, genius or near-genius young people going lone gunman because of whatever reason we are being told.

I mean, does it really seem like that much more of a stretch.

Originally posted by Epirus

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by Epirus

 

Ambien is a partial benzo. It affects the same areas of the brain in the same way but in less efficiently.

No it's not

1- While I agree that some type of senility can't be ruled out of the equation for a person of that age, Ambien has become increasingly known for causing sleep-walking type activities in people with no history of such.

2- He is correct-- Ambien (and other "z" drugs) absolutely affect the brain similarly to benzos at certain receptor sites. In long term and/or heavy use it also can cause a similar withdrawal syndrome as benzos.

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by Epirus

 

It effects the BZ1 receptor that makes it what?

It's not a benzo. It may have some similar effects but the chemical composition is entirely different which is why it's not in the benzo family and instead in the nonbenzodiazepine family.

I'm not trying to argue semantics with you, the point is it's a different drug and a different situation since the FDA didn't list overdose or abuse as their reason for the dosage reduction. And your original comment was that you abused Xanax for years and you're fine. (unrelated to taking the recommended dose of ambien and the FDA's decision to lower the dose... in which this thread was originally concerned)

Here is a link to some info on the unusually side effects of sleeping pills.www.darksideofsleepingpills.com...

reply to post by Komaratzi11



I haven't followed this thread all the way through, but I was getting bored of all the hype about Ambien, that I've heard from friends, etc.

All I know is this:
I'm an old person and I've seen life, been around the block several times and have had enough of it all, frankly.

My way of saying good-bye to the day, at the end of it, is to make myself a really delicious meal, taking great pleasure in cutting up the veggies, as I surf the TV, then eat my meal; drink lots of red wine, (and I know when to stop); and to top it off, I smoke a bit of spliffy-weed, eat some chocolate; make a cup of herbal sleepy-time tea....then fall into bed in a state of ecstatic wellbeing, between smooth sheets and with herbal essence oils and piped-in birdsong.....I sleep very well, under these conditions.

F*ck the artificial pharmaceuticals!

reply to post by Krakatoa


I don't know about Unisom, but the occasional Benadryl sure works for me. No drowsiness and, it's a great (though short-acting, and with easily built-up resistance) SSRI. So it improves mood the day after, almost as good as sex!

Seriously, though, I do not think the FDA's decision can be taken at face value. Best case scenario, IMO, is they are doing the right thing for a change -- because given their real agenda, they can afford to. In politics as usual, it sometimes pays to be truthful and/or do the right thing, if only because that obfuscates all the lies and malfeasance that predominate.

Let us assume they are doing the right thing -- reducing dosages because of harmful and/or dangerous side effects like drowsiness. That may also further evil agendas in the background such as encouraging off-label usage of antipsychotics (which have a host of harmful side effects like weight gain, diabetes, reduced intelligence etc. etc.) but which, as it happens, do cause most people to sleep more deeply and longer.

Or there may be other, patentable alternatives in the FDA approval pipeline that, similar to antipsychotics, do not have mood-altering or addictive potentials like the benzodiazapenes do, but nonetheless conk you out (never mind other side effects, e.g., suicidal ideation, weight gain, diabetes, etc. etc.) By reducing dosages of existing sleep aids (many of the most popular being benzodiazapenes), the FDA indirectly encourages their side-by-side use with newer (and in some ways, much more dangerous) "alternatives" like those aforementioned.

It is always in BIg Pharma's best interest to promote the use of new medications, no matter how harmful -- because patents, and patents alone, mean big profits for them. The trend nowadays is to promote substances that flatten affect and/or mood generally, but have no compensatory euphoric (i.e., dopamine -pathway) activity and therefore less risk of addiction or abuse. And such substances tend to be highly toxic, even if effective for mood disorders or insomnia.

My rule of thumb, when it comes to pharmaceuticals that depress (or stimulate) the CNS, is the older (and longer-expired) the patent, and the more addictive the substance, the safer (ironically) it tends to be. That is, as long as one is not an addict. The ones that are non-addictive, and that would include some of the new sleep remedies as well as drugs used to treat depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia as well as ADD/ADHD, tend to require higher dosage by weight, are more liver-toxic, and carry higher risk of lethality, not to mention other secondary side effects, known and unknown.

My rules of thumb are, never trust the FDA, and avoid any prescription drug approved by them after 1970 as if it were pus from a Black Plague victim. And as much as possible, avoid prescription drugs altogether!

reply to post by Epirus


If the FDA were concerned about anyone's health and well-being, they would place an outright ban on drugs like Ambien. So please stop supporting your points with things the FDA has said or done, they are worthless.

The sad thing is people are going to continue to take these medications and give them to their children willingly. What people don't realize is that these drugs aren't designed to HELP you or make things better. They're designed to suppress and initially make things worse, causing you to come back for bigger doses and stronger medications.

I feel bad for all the parents who are told their children have depression, add/adhd, autism, asbergers, sleeping disorders, etc.. and are lost because they have no idea how to help their children so they turn to doctors and psychiatrists that just medicate them up so they become shells of who they really are. They become so far from the person that they really are that they lose all sense of moral right or wrong, what's acceptable and what's not. Then those children in turn medicate their children because that's all they know how to do. Society is so disconnected from it's rightful place because we've been kept as slaves and test subjects to play and toy with. It's our lives at the expense of their earnings. If you're not sick, they'll give you something to make you sick and keep coming back.

It's a vicious cycle that people don't know how to pull away from and heal themselves fully. Spiritually and Physically. And if you really, REALLY still believe that the FDA and USDA and the US Govt. in general still has your best interest at heart, you are so far from being able to be helped or help yourself. You are still, and always will be their slave.

I hate to use the words "Wake up" but it's unnecessary. Stop mindlessly doing what they want you to. Stop believing whatever it is your doctor or psychiatrist have to say. Stop believing the government has you in it's interests because they never will.

The best substitute for sleeping aids is hard work.
america has become a service economy where most people work behind a desk or a counter so it`s not surprising that so many americans can`t sleep at night after sitting all day.

Hey interesting thread dude!

I just did a quick info check on 2 of Australia's mass shootings and YES both we're on medication.
However because of my limited contact with drugs I don't know what they are used for.

1. Wade Frankum. Strathfield massacre, 17th August 1991 was on Prozac
en.wikipedia.org...

2. Martin Bryant. Port Arthur massacre, 28th April 1996, was on Serapax.
en.wikipedia.org...

I have tried to find out if Ivan Milat,
en.wikipedia.org...
Australia's most infamous serious killer was on any type of prescribed medication, but could not find anything. This might be because there is a difference between people who do "spur of the moment" shootings, and serial killers whose killings are premeditated.

So as for the link between "sleeping pills" and shooting sprees, I reckon there is a definately link, and I assume your FDA wouldn't make such decisions lightly.

Originally posted by Tardacus
The best substitute for sleeping aids is hard work.
america has become a service economy where most people work behind a desk or a counter so it`s not surprising that so many americans can`t sleep at night after sitting all day.

Yeah, not to mention this new scam called restless leg syndrome. Of course your legs are restless, they haven't been exercised. Ride 20 miles on a bicycle and see how restless your legs are when you're trying to sleep.

reply to post by Komaratzi11


Thank You, for the very informative article on Ambiem. I have been taking them for a long time. It might be time to get off of them. I have never done any strange things such as sleep eating or such. But I am not sleeping even though taking them. It seems after reading your article they can cause a number of other chronic health problems as well some of which I have experienced.

Originally posted by Epirus

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by Epirus

 

Ambien is a partial benzo. It affects the same areas of the brain in the same way but in less efficiently.

No it's not

Yes they are somewhat. Z-drugs are not Benzodiazepines, but they work on the same receptors and are cross tolerent with Benzo's, so may aswell be classed as one. Do some research.

Alcohol works on the same recptors as both these tyoes of drugs aswell. Benzo's and Z-drugs are pretty much concentrated alcohol in pill form.

Both Benzo's and Z-drugs should be treated in the same way when one becomes addicted. A slow crossover to Valium and a slow taper from there.

Z-drugs are even worse than Benzo's when one becomes tolerent, because of the incredibly short half life. You have to pop one every 4-6 hours to stave off tolerence withdrawals. Believe me, i was unforunate to become addicted.

Back on topic.

It's true that these drugs cause a hangover effect in the mornings akin to drinking far too much alcohol the night before. But they stay in the system longer than alcohol. When you get a script, it should state specifically that you should not operate heavy machinary both on the bottle/package and in the insert. This includes cars. It affects you cognitively, through to the next morning, afternoon, or even throuhout the whole day. Would you drive to work in the morning if you were still over the limit from a bender the previous night?

What's really damaging here is that if someone has been on these for a while (sometimes it doesn't even take that long to become dependent), taking them every night.
If your Doctor drops you dramatically you are going to have problems (And many doctors are still in serious denial about the addictive qualities of these medications). Some may just have rebound insomnia and feel incredibly anxious for a few weeks, others will suffer quite nasty withdrawals affecting your CNS quite dramatically aswell as serious psychological issues.

These sleeping tablets, including Benzodiazepines are highly addictive. Some might say "But i'm ok on them, i don't have a problem" You try not taking your usual daily dose for a few nights. Although i would strongly advise you to do some thorough research on the withdrawal effects of these drugs before you do so. It will make you think twice.

Note: Some long term users can suffer seizures if they discontinue these types of drugs after taking them daily for a long period. Just like what happens when severe alcoholics stop drinking. Never discontinue them without discussing it with a Benzo and Z-drug wise Doctor.

Remember when they released Valium into the big wide world? "Mothers little helpers". Everyone was on them. fast forward 10 or more years, the people who were on them found themselves severely addicted, and restrictions were put in place, although most Doctors still to this day are handing Benzo's out like sweets.

Z-drugs were touted as a non addictive alternative to Benzo's when they were released in (I think) sometime in the early 90's. Now a whole bunch of people are addicted, just like what happened with Valium.