The Aether Reality

reply to post by buddhasystem


Then when you say,

A field does not need a medium to propagate through.

You are then saying that "An elf does not need a medium to propagate through", because if you have no idea what a field is, you might as well call it an elf.

The theory you believe in is no better than claiming that elfin magic holds everything together.

Being that you have no idea whatsoever what the nature of a field is.

However, but the very terminology, the word "field", a medium of existence is expressed, soil from which plants grow; It is just another example of the limits of your understanding of science.

reply to post by DenyObfuscation


What can I say, I am too busy laughing when I post some of this stuff to concentrate on getting the finer points straight.

I originally meant to say 80 miles, and then I read the wrong column in the table I referenced.

Either way, you would need a much superior vacuum to approach the kind of nothingness you claim exists in space.

Strange that such strong structures must be created to hold such vacuums, being that atmospheric pressure is only about 14.5 PSI.

Originally posted by poet1b

Point on the equator speed at noon - Point on the equator speed at midnight = change in velocity.

That would have been the next general science class, after you had the trig you missed. The one where they covered rotary motion.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by Bedlam

 

Actually about 30 millitorre, which is about as good as you can get with a rough pump, and you would need a pretty darn good rough pump, a heavy duty chamber, with a proper o'ring of the right material, and vacuum grease.

Not at 80,000 feet.

Why don't you explain to us how heat radiates through a vacuum, if that vacuum is devoid of matter.

Photons don't require a medium to propagate through, like we're discussing.

reply to post by poet1b


You've missed my point of the bell jar experiment completely. It's not about the quality of the vacuum, it's about showing that any level of vacuum is created at all. That is evidenced by the lack of sufficient air to transfer sound.The entire volume of the jar does not need to be emptied to show that empty space exists, no matter the volume of that space. 1Ag contends that NO space can be empty but the experiment shows that it can.

If matter can not move through empty space, void of other matter, then it can only move through space occupied by other matter. Is that what you say happens?

reply to post by Bedlam


The formula I provided is plenty adequate to prove my point. I stepped up, now its your turn, lets see you use the formula I created and come up with the numbers.

Come on big boy, lets see that acceleration chart. Hint, it will look more like a chopped wave.

My bet is that you didn't understand trig, let alone the purpose of a derivative. Funny how many people I have met who passed these classes, but are completely unable to apply the concepts to real world applications.

While they didn't teach you this stuff back in physics school, it is dog simple stuff.

Other factors also change the velocity the Earth is moving through space, as in the next bigger system. Can you figure it out?

I did make a mistake in another post on the subject, the change of speed at the equator from noon to midnight is greater than 100 MPH on average.

reply to post by poet1b


Aight. See you in a couple of days, I've got two 16s back to back.

reply to post by Bedlam


I hope you're getting paid OT.

Those sound like aerospace testing hours to me.

Oh, and um, don't drink too much of that aether. To stay on subject.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by buddhasystem

 

Then when you say,

A field does not need a medium to propagate through.

You are then saying that "An elf does not need a medium to propagate through", because if you have no idea what a field is, you might as well call it an elf.

The theory you believe in is no better than claiming that elfin magic holds everything together.

I don't believe anything. There are experiments that show how things work. In these experiments, we don't see a substance filling the void in such a way as to still allow fields to propagate - sorry, but it doesn't matter that you want it badly because it doesn't fit in your head - fact is fact, and not a matter of belief. On the contrary, you believe that there has to be a medium in the void, and this is NOT supported by facts. This would be typical of a person married to the mechanical, primitive view of the world. Remember the Phlogiston? Same thing.

Joseph Black's student Daniel Rutherford discovered nitrogen in 1772 and the pair used the theory to explain his results. The residue of air left after burning, in fact a mixture of nitrogen and carbon dioxide, was sometimes referred to as "phlogisticated air", having taken up all of the phlogiston. Conversely, when oxygen was first discovered it was thought to be "dephlogisticated air", capable of combining with more phlogiston and thus supporting combustion for longer than ordinary air

Striking similarities. If it burns, there MUST be an element released, they said. If the field propagates, there MUST be an element present, you say. Convulsions of a simple mind when observing the majesty of Nature.

reply to post by buddhasystem

you believe that there has to be a medium in the void, and this is NOT supported by facts.

Not exactly, but I'll bite. The evidence that light is believed to move in waves does in fact demonstrate that it travels through some sort of medium. The very existence of a field points towards the existence of some sort of medium. This has nothing to do with a void, unless you are talking about the void in the understanding of the nature of the these things in science.

Like I pointed out earlier, Einstein suggested a warping of the fabric of space and time, and that is just using different terms to try and describe a re-invented aether.

Science came from humble beginnings, that often developed into fairly accurate observations, too bad many scientists haven't succeeded in hanging on to those humble beginnings.

If the field propagates, there MUST be an element present, you say.

Nope, not what I said, not even close.

Originally posted by 1Agnostic1

1. Photons ARE NOT waves. This is bull. They are particles (QT can accept that much) that CREATE a wave travelling through the Ether (space). There is a causal effect at play here.
Yet, QT makes the absurd claim that a photon is a particle AND a wave.
If you don't know, those states are mutually exclusive. THAT is the reason why the claim is so ridiculous.

QT, you mean quantum field theory?

Quantum field theory, and in particular the theory of quantum optics, makes claims about the physics of electromagnetic fields. These claims have been validated by extraordinary experiments.

Whether or not they are "absurd" to you or anybody is not relevant to their usefulness and predictive accuracy.

The relationship between photons and waves is more subtle than commonly supposed. In a rough sense each photons is the smallest possible excitation of the electromagnetic fields when viewed in quantum physics commutator instead of the classical commutator. Roughly, like the very smallest possible 'mode', though in classical physics there is no connection between the spatial mode (wavelength) and the minimum energy, though in QM there is.

A photon is a 'thing' sort of because it is a state which is a pure state of the 'number operator', the quantum mechanical thing which 'counts' the number of photons in a field, sort of like the angular momentum operator on classical particles 'counts' how many multiples of hbar/2 of angular momentum the particle has.

Now, the more complicated thing is that a pure "wave", like a classical sine wave is *not* an eigenstate of photon number, meaning that the "number of photons" in a wave is not precisely defined. It is a mixed state.

The most particle like state/basis is called a "Fock" state.

en.wikipedia.org...

You could have your field-version of the wavefunction in a Fock state, and in that state say "I have z_1 photons of energy h*f_1, z_2 photons of energy h*f_2, etc. You can count them.

The most classical wave like basis is called the 'coherent state':

en.wikipedia.org...

You can't count individual photons in this state, but it does look like a large classical electromagnetic wave.

So remembering that in quantum mechanics, you can have 'mixed states' which are linear combinations of various pure states, and what is pure in one basis for the vector space is mixed in another basis.

The wave-particle duality comes down to the notion that some bases you can measure are "particley" and some are "wavey" that you can have quantum mechanical states which are mixtures and therefore have properties of some and other simultaneously. Remember elementary QM of particles (simpler than that of fields), the same thing is true.

So in quantum mechanics, the "wave" and "particle" properties are not mutually exclusive contrary to your assertion. The nature of QM is essential in these 'mixed' states and interference properties which distinguish QM from classical physics. These fundamental properties of quantum mechanics have been validated by extensive experimentation with quantitatively matching predictions. Not just "yeah there is interference" but prediction of exactly how the patterns would play out.

2. You just implied that any wave needs a medium to propagate into... That's my point. That's why of the reason the Ether must exist.

You are trying to do physics like Aristotle, thinking about how something "should" work.

By the way the 19th century idea of the electromagnetic 'ether' was much more concrete with experimental consequences than this vague ideas of wordplay. The experimental evidence invalidated this type of theory.

Originally posted by poet1b
reply to post by -PLB-

 

The speed of the surface of the Earth at the equator is over 1,000 MPH, after accounting for the angle of the tilt of the axis in relation to Earths orbit around the sun, there is still a change of speed greater than 50 MPH from noon until midnight.

This is hardly insignificant.

100 mph is a lot. How could this be insignificant?

It would take an absolutely huge amount of force to do such a thing. I guess it would be possible to calculate exactly how much force, but it is definately more proof of -

"enormous changing forces all around us, that mainstream science primarily ignores"

So in quantum mechanics, the "wave" and "particle" properties are not mutually exclusive contrary to your assertion. The nature of QM is essential in these 'mixed' states and interference properties which distinguish QM from classical physics. These fundamental properties of quantum mechanics have been validated by extensive experimentation with quantitatively matching predictions. Not just "yeah there is interference" but prediction of exactly how the patterns would play out.

Nevertheless the non exclusive wave properties of the photon wave packet still need some sort of medium to propergate in. You cant have a wave in nothing, it implies a medium of some sort to propergate in any way.

That there is "patterns to play out" also denotes underlying stucture.

Originally posted by primalfractal
Nevertheless the non exclusive wave properties of the photon wave packet still need some sort of medium to propergate in.

Dude, I smell revolutionary science here. Propergate? Never heard of such mode of "wave packets". But it must be cutting edge, right?

You cant have a wave in nothing, it implies a medium of some sort to propergate in any way.

I'm sorry I missed the "propergate" concept while I was studying physics, most of my life. This must be Nobel material, either that, or you are an uneducated specimen who dares to talk about quantum mechanics. I'm not sure which is the case, but so far, good going!

And of course others would say that "can't have waves in nothing" is a telling element of the story of a simpleton, but I discern a deep, deep level of comprehension here. After all, it's "proper-gate", as opposed to "improper-gate".

Originally posted by Bedlam
Dr Podkletnov's discovery doesn't require aether to explain.

He ought to talk more with Dr Li, they did at first. Oh, yeah, she's in China now.

Oh, and same question. What sort of wave would EM have to be to propagate in a luminiferous aether? Qualitatively.

Evgeny was on about impulse gravity generator that coild bend thick
mtal plates and cut holes in concrete

reply to post by buddhasystem


Haha, does my not bein a good spella offend ya? Is that all ya got?

That and a photon that is also a mathematical wave waving in maths. Well that makes sense, not. No wonder you resort to childish name calling all the time.

All this talk about alternate realities...

We seem a bit impatient...

I doubt we'll really know where we are or what we're doing here until we pass away.

People will attempt to make an intellectual argument out of it, but...

Almost all visions come through the filter of the Ego, which is controlled by a certain being some may call Satan or Samael.

What these visions actually are, we may never know. They might well be illusions of darkness and false light.

We exist in a sort of pit, anyway.... and we're accosted by all sorts of things that really have no substance.... ghosts, if you will.

The "aetherical" dimensions are very dicey to place any reliability on, expressly because of where we actually are.

We can know only glimpses of reality... because to know much more is a danger to the whole reason why we are here in the first place.

Mainstream science sees the wave itself as mathematical, yes thats right, they dont like to mention it because its so silly.

To admit the wave exists physically is admitting something is waving, obviously. How is this even an arguement?

Its in no way possible for a real photon to also be a "maths" when you dont look at it.

To be stuck on the "how am I here" is to negate the "why am I here", and in turn... remain stuck in the underworld.

A never-ending loop reality, or an "eternity in Hell".

reply to post by PnezakYahakotima


Thanks for the warning about the visions, we are surrounded by a beast of our own creation, I think.

Not completely insurmountable though, as you mentioned, and what guarantee of any resolution/information/understanding upon death? The bardos are also samsara.

This is why I love ats, where else could we get such diverse infomation to confluence.