Imorovised methods for taking out light armor

I know full well that my area is an exception, and that what I'm about to say is by no means a reflection of average America, but I know three people in my local area who own 20 mm weapons. Two Lhaitis in one guys collection, one made by anzio iron works, and an odd south african bolt action. AP rounds are only $17.50 each.
And, looking at the reconditioned BTR- 60 the fed gave the local s.o. a few years ago, I'm pretty sure my .300 win mag could, at close enough range, render it, umm, 'ineffective'.
Light armour indeed.

reply to post by DC434L2A


20mm is of course designed for light armor. They are few but good for you that you happen to live in an area that has some of these. If your area ever comes under attack by such vehicle mounted attackers at least you are prepared and able to at least put up a fight. It sure beats dropping to your knees and begging them not to kill you while they are raping your wives and daughters.

UN troops are famous for this type of behavior and are the most likely ones to be in charge of mass gun confiscation since the president already is under UN control working for the globalist. I am afraid we will see this in the very near future. If the president can order a drone strike on an American in Yemen and his 16 year old son you can bet that he will and can do it in the United States. Drones will take out the heavily armed patriots and leadership of the Militia while the UN armor works with DHS and confiscates the weapons in the hand of the rest of the population. It was not that many years ago that anyone who said something like this would be called nuts. It sure shows how fast things change that you have congressmen and judges and sheriffs saying things like this now days.

Originally posted by DC434L2A
And, looking at the reconditioned BTR- 60 the fed gave the local s.o. a few years ago, I'm pretty sure my .300 win mag could, at close enough range, render it, umm, 'ineffective'.

Light armour indeed.

It is simply a matter of knowing where to shoot on the BTR - it's hardly formidable challenge armor wise. I think a well placed 7.62 or even an abundance of 7.62 into the right area will incapacitate the BTR. Least as I remember it - it has a serious soft spot right over the engine block. Could be wrong there. One can easily check Janes for the weak spots on all existing military equipment.

The US primary main armor (Brads and Abrams) is neato and almost invulnerable to all but the main guns or the latest AT weapons; attacking the armor itself is not the way to go.

Attack the fuel and resupply chain and they become really neat, expensive coffins...

Good predictive intelligence work by some ex-soldiers who know their doctrine will enable them to attack the unarmored refulers, ammo carriers and the log pacs at key points that are necessary to keep an armored force in the field.

A few well placed teams using METT-T can take out a whole armored BN's log pac with a few well placed charges. Hell even a sniper team with some incendiary ammo can devastate a refuel operation from a mile or more away considering the target is the 40x8 feet.

Please, may I ask, "Why is this even a question?"?!


Because if you really want to know, just study Iraq 2007, or any other period during the surge. And that information will be the virtual library of Alexandria.

Not that, that is a good thing, but, because you asked, and I personally feel this is perhaps gone on longer than it reasonably should, considering.

I'm not against the conversation continuing, but at this point, for me it is a bit personal. So, I would rather just help you, and answer all your questions, and kill the thread if possible.

Otherwise, I'm going to keep reading this in the current threads and wonder why I hadn't sooner.

reply to post by ADVISOR


I am not following you here. Are you saying that our first amendment protected free speech right is not allowed here on ATS if we are discussing a subject matter you don't personally not approve of? Are you familiar with the East German Stazi? They employed such tactics. This totalitarian regime here at ATS is becoming very bold coming out against the 1st and 2nd amendment right of the people here on ATS lately. Is there a purge "Red Scare" type of thing underway?

Basically the Molotov cocktail is the best defense against these things. They are usually dropped from on top of a building. But anything that blinds them makes the whole thing more or less useless.

Explanation: S&F!

I shall attempt to detail an off the top of my head 'first few steps' of making a DIY makeshift RPG!

Firstly to safety and legal issues.

DISCLAIMER: This information is to only be used in the most extreme STFH circumstances and it will probably KILL YOU and or GET YOU KILLED OK!

So you use this information completely at you own risk!

I accept aboslutely no liability for anybody using this information in the real world for any reasons what so ever!

Now to DIY accessable parts and basic technical information freely available to access on the internet.

Note: There will be no links provided at all by me for the purpose of the of this reply!

An RPG's primary important structural part is the metal cone that gets turned into a penetratingly white hot blistering molten metal plasma that is projected at the surface of what ever is to be 'dealt with'.

So I looked online looking for 'cheap small silver metal perfume bottle funnels' and they will do the job nicely.

Now that needs to be seated with a gap for the 'substance'* tightly surrounding it, inside a bigger metal funnel made of a far stonger metal with a higher melting point and its obvious steel funnels will suit this purpose.

*Then I thought about what kind of 'substance' I could use thats generally available that would substitute for the plastic explosives used in real RPG's and I came up with simple and cheap firework sparklers that can be stripped for this 'substance'.

And from here on in you are on your own in working out any further construction methods etc. for the RPG 'package'.

However as to the mechanism that could be employed to deliver the 'package' is a simple PVC pipe spud gun powered by butane lighter gas and triggered by a long nosed BBQ firestarter and video and webpages details for such devices can also be found online at your own discreation and at your own risk.

Personal Disclosure: Information is Power and Safety is of PREMIUM IMPORTANCE!

Go reread my Disclaimer above ok!

Be informed and safe comrades!

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Please, may I ask, "Why is this even a question?"?!

Not the OP but I will opine that the question is posed because someone wanted to know the answer. This is the weapons and tactics forum is it not?

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Not that, that is a good thing, but, because you asked, and I personally feel this is perhaps gone on longer than it reasonably should, considering.

I'm not against the conversation continuing, but at this point, for me it is a bit personal. So, I would rather just help you, and answer all your questions, and kill the thread if possible.

I see that you put "personal opinion" so I am going to ask are you are commenting here with mod hat on or off? Is it just something you personally find distasteful.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
Otherwise, I'm going to keep reading this in the current threads and wonder why I hadn't sooner.

Again, my question is this a threat to terminate the thread as a moderator because of some personal issue?

I am confused as to whether I should report it as an issue to the other staff for review. I don't really see anything that violates the T&C; however, I am no expert on such matters. I am giving you the benefit of a doubt that your intent was simply not clearly communicated.

Why pierce armor to incapacitate when you can just set off an EMP blast using a solid steel cylinder wrapped in copper wire with some old TV capacitors hooked up in series?

Take out the electronics, take out the vehicle. Oh, that's right...they're illegal to make or own. The question at this point is, who makes the laws telling us what is or isn't legal? The people we are talking about theoretically protecting ourselves against with force? So why does it have to be deemed 'legal' by our newly dubbed enemies? Circular logic is a hell of a thing.

reply to post by exitusstatuquo




No, not at all.

What I was trying to imply, is that I am willing to let you guys pick my brain, as a former active duty Army armored cavalry scout. Hence, There is very little I do not know about armor and how to protect it, or destroy it.

What I said, but in less words, if you want to know some thing, ask me. ( I just do not like the topic, because of the memories it brings up...alright... )

reply to post by Golf66


When I post in a tread in a fashion like this, where I am trying to contribute. The hat is never on.

If I am dictating T&C, that is probably 99.999% on.

.

Would not a hand full of DU rounds and a S/A .50 be the best possible defense against armor ?

.

no way to improvise this though ..im pretty sure .

.

Originally posted by ADVISOR
reply to post by Golf66

 

When I post in a tread in a fashion like this, where I am trying to contribute. The hat is never on.

If I am dictating T&C, that is probably 99.999% on.

Fair enough - like I said It was just a little confusing to me. I did say I was giving the benifit of a doubt.

Cheers....

I wasn't trying to be snarky.

Forget about it.

Actually said it years ago.
I prefer a good challenging head on confrontation, that is why I'm here at ATS. Now the key to maintaining composure, is to have a true appreciation for such, a challenge that is. I want to be confronted with your perspectives and opinions.

In return, I'm hoping whom ever that may be, is as open minded as I. This is what I like to call mutual ground.




So, back on topic and away from harassing the intrusive super.

Because every one harasses us, so hey we don't care.
lol

Du rounds are mainly anti material or anti armor. But it is not likely a civilian will have access to those, let alone know how to load them in a dual feed 25mm bushmaster cannon, such as one on a Bradley.

Tungsten is good for light armor too, cheaper and more accessible than DU, plus they can be hand molded for reloading ammo.

EFPs, are the preferred method of defeating armor, both light and heavy. They can do what a 500 to 800 pound AT mine or HME can, with a fraction of the explosives.

As for the Molotov or fuel mixtures, if it is an NBC rated vehicle, don't wast your resources.
Thermite can be probably the most versatile of the mentioned incendiaries. Enough of its base components are readily available, that it would be a loss not to use it.

But I have a bias, so for me thermite is my 100mph tape in those situations.


The best way to know how to defeat any vehicle though is to learn is soft points.

If this is that interesting of a subject, perhaps some academic time would be of use.

his manual provides technical information, training techniques, and combat techniques of light anitarmor weapons. Intended users include leaders and designated soldiers who will use this information to successfully integrate light antiarmor weapons into combat operations. This manual discusses gunnery training and train-the-trainer.

FM 23-25 - Light Antiarmor Weapons

reply to post by R0CR13


Probably not. As you said, it would be hard to improvise, where as a more explosive approach is easily improvised and available.

reply to post by 59demon


If it is not a military vehicle, sure. Otherwise, military vehicles are EMP resistant, especially Navy and Airforce. It could be useful for disrupting other electronics as well, not just vehicles, but commo.

So, don't dismiss EMP, just becareful it will work on its target. But I'm a huge fan of EMP and find that it should have its own FM, like smoke operations.

On NATO light armour, I suppose we could just pull the halon-handles and run.
Might not dead line it per se, but the interior of the vehicle would be a suddenly confusing place...

reply to post by DC434L2A


That would be useful, for those who know where to find the halon handles. Any one not familiar though it would be useless info.

Here is an interesting article, it reminded me of this thread, and for its improvised uses, I think you all will find it, as I did. Useful...

(U//FOUO) Central California Intelligence Center Exploding Gun Targets Report

January 17, 2013 in California, Intelligence Fusion Centers

The Central California Intelligence Center (CCIC)/Sacramento Regional Threat Assessment Center (RTAC) has prepared the following Situational Information Report on exploding targets, a commercially available binary explosive agent, to provide law enforcement and public safety officials with a better understanding of the potential public safety risks involving its use. While exploding targets are legally permissible depending on state and local regulations, the CCIC is concerned that the mixture may be more dangerous than what is stated on the manufacturer’s website especially if mishandled by individuals with novice experience in handling explosive components or when used in large quantities to detonate bigger targets and, in essence, creating an explosives or incendiary device.

After reading through the replies to this post, I have joined upjust to make a response to it.

Frankly, I am surprised at how so little "thinking-out-of-the-box" has been shown when the post is calling for an improvised manner in which to address the advancement of light armored vehicles.

The first response which I would advocate is a variation on the "molitov cocktail", but rather than gas or kerosine, I would harken back to my grade school science class.

Why not fill a few glass bottles with battery acid? Does anyone remember what effects it has on steel, even when painted; and how about those aluminium strips you used in high school chemistry. I am sure, with a little thought along these lines, other substances can be devised. I would think a few bottles broken over the engine air intakes or any other openings, and maybe on the drive train housings, will get the occupants attention.

I am not saying this is the only way to respond to these vehicles, but it would beat the heck out doing the same things for which they have trained.

reply to post by teamcommander


Just how does one train for an entire areas gas main being detonated at once, turning an entire district into a smoking hole in the ground?

So how do you deal with the AIR support be it drones or gunships that seem to hover about when ground forces are on the ground??

I think we have all seen the videos of insurgents getting lit up in neighborhoods as ground troops in light armor patrol.

Stopping resupply will halt any push with armor. Attacking head on is suicidal in most cases. Thermite will halt any light armor. Pick your battles control the terrain those are all tried and proven concepts.