South Carolina teacher suspended for stomping on an American flag

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

there are laws covering the flag actually. He should have checked. He didn't do his homework and he now faces the consequences. Seems like an appropriate lesson.

Care to quote said "laws"?

As far as the SCOTUS is concerned it is perfectly legal and constitutional. Show me I'm wrong.....

Originally posted by HandyDandy
But a non-US citizen gets to have freedom of speech?

Piers Morgan if you haven't been made aware yet.

Freedom of speech is a human right, not an American one.

Disgraceful behaviour that the teacher was suspended for trampling on a piece of cloth, especially if his reasons were true.

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by Liquesence

Honors English teacher Scott Compton, at Chapin High School, was reportedly trying to illustrate that students had the freedom to deface symbols without consequence.

What a nice lesson to teach the kids......

Stomp on my flag even though it is perfectly legal and constitutional and get sacked.

I think he made his point very well. That there IS a consequence.

His next lesson:

Now class, THIS is why we have the SCOTUS. When a man exercises his constitutionally protected rights, but is erroneously and unjustly punished for doing so, we take it to the Court...

Lesson: One must FIGHT to keep one's rights.

But yeah, talk about irony.

reply to post by HandyDandy

Every state in America except two has laws dealing with the misuse, abuse, and desecration of flags: the American flag, the state flag, and sometimes the Confederate flag. The laws prohibit defiling, defacing, casting contempt upon, and sometimes even satirizing these flags. Most laws specify actions, but some criminalize words. A few include other venerated objects in their protections.

Wyoming is the only state that doesn't say anything about defacing, desecrating, or disparaging the flag. Alaska only bans the registration of trademarks which disparage national symbols. All other states proscribe at least some uses for national and state flags. Below are some key attributes of these laws.

Publicity: It's rarely a crime to deface, burn, or desecrate an American flag if you do so in the privacy of your home. It's only a crime to do it in public or take a flag so altered and display it in public. If the crime is the action, though, why does it have to be public? This suggests that the law exists to protect people's sensibilities rather than flags.

Outraged Sensibilities: Many laws specify that a crime only occurs if the action outrages the sensibilities of those who see or even merely learn of it. Desecrating a flag is not a crime in and of itself; it only becomes a crime when people get upset. Once again, the purpose appears to be protecting people's feelings.

Intent: Most state laws specify that flag desecration is only a crime if person intentionally or knowingly does it. If the point is to protect flags, however, why aren't there provisions for a lesser charge of negligence? Perhaps it's because the point is to suppress the communication of ideas, something that occurs when one intentionally defaces a flag but doesn't occur when one accidentally defaces a flag.

Casting Contempt: The clearest evidence that the point of a law is to suppress speech is when the crime is to "cast contempt" or otherwise "insult" the flag, such that defacing or defiling are merely examples of how the crime might occur. As the Supreme Court stated in Smith v Goguen, however, to treat something contemptuously means to express contempt, and that is undeniably the expression of attitudes or ideas which is protected by the Constitution.

By Word or Act: The most extreme examples of suppressing speech are those state laws which explicitly ban casting contempt on the flag "by word" as well as "by act." States which do this are: Iowa, Louisiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nevada (which additionally makes it a crime to speak "evilly" about the flag), New Mexico (which prohibits insulting the flag), New York, Oklahoma, West Virginia, and Vermont. The District of Columbia used to have this, but it was removed.

Any Part: Most states define "flag" very broadly to include any part of a flag, any representation of a flag, and anything which anyone might immediately perceive as a flag. So burning a piece of a flag or a picture of a flag are crimes.

Venerated Objects: Alabama and Kentucky are the two states which connect the protection of flags with more general protections for religious objects because they classify the desecration of flags alongside desecration of churches and "venerated objects."

Advertisements: Most states ban not just defacing flags, but also using flags for advertising. This makes it illegal to sell things with flags on them (for the purpose of drawing attention) or to put ads on flags themselves. Maine, Rhode Island, and Pennsylvania only ban this and not other forms of desecration (though Pennsylvania includes things like using flags for drapery).

Personal Property: Most state laws make no distinction between personal property and the property of others; most that do say that it doesn't matter if the flag is personal property — desecration is still a crime. Only Kansas and New Hampshire ban desecration just in the context of flags that a person doesn't own.

Felony vs. Misdemeanor: Illinois is the only state to make flag desecration a felony; every other state makes it a misdemeanor. Wisconsin used to make it a felony, but the entire provision on flag desecration was struck down in 1998. Oklahoma makes it a felony to display any "red flag" or other emblem to incite disloyalty to the government.

Inciting of Violence: Maryland and Arizona are the only two states which limit the crime of flag desecration to those cases where the act might incite violence in others. This appears to acknowledge that people have a free speech right to burn or deface the flag, but then makes the person a criminal if others get so upset that they act violently in response.

Confederate Flags: Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina all protect Confederate flags on an equal basis with American and state flags. Thus burning a Confederate flag is the same crime as burning an American flag. Florida used to have similar provisions, but not anymore.

atheism.about.com...

Depends on the state, but we are free to move to another state.......If we like to be jackasses with our national symbols....

Originally posted by HandyDandy

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

there are laws covering the flag actually. He should have checked. He didn't do his homework and he now faces the consequences. Seems like an appropriate lesson.

Care to quote said "laws"?

As far as the SCOTUS is concerned it is perfectly legal and constitutional. Show me I'm wrong.....

I dont even frikin care if its legal he shouldnt be doin it...

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


State law does not trump the SCOTUS, like it or not. If you arrest someone for symbolically burning the flag then you are going to get the crap sued out of you.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Should have researched more.

Supreme Court Strikes Down All Laws Banning Flag Desecration (1989):

Outside the 1984 Republican National Convention in Dallas, Gregory Lee Johnson burned a flag in protest against President Ronald Reagan's policies. He was arrested under Texas' flag desecration statute. In its 5-4 ruling in Texas v. Johnson, the Supreme Court struck down flag desecration laws in 48 states by ruling that flag desecration is a constitutionally protected form of free speech.

Flag Protection Act (1989-1990):

In 1989, the U.S. Congress protested the Johnson decision by passing the Flag Protection Act, a federal version of the already-struck state flag desecration statutes. Thousands burned flags in protest of the new law, and when two protesters were arrested, the Supreme Court affirmed its previous ruling and struck down the federal statute.

Flag Desecration Amendment (1990, 1995, 1997, 1999-2000, 2001, 2003, 2005-2006):

Congress has made seven attempts to overrule the U.S. Supreme Court by passing a constitutional amendment making an exception to the First Amendment in order to allow the government to ban flag desecration. In 1990, when the amendment was first brought up, it failed to achieve the necessary two-thirds majority in the House. After the Republican congressional takeover of 1994, it has consistently passed the House but failed in the Senate.

civilliberty.about.com...

Care to try again?

reply to post by antonia


actually that is not entirely correct.

We are a UNION....not a federation. A union of nations...each state CHOOSES to remain in the UNION. Its state constitution is supreme. That is the spirit of the republic bud.


Each state could tell the federal government to go to hell. They only have jurisdiction in the district of Colombia.


we just choose not to plunge into civil war every time we disagree.

reply to post by goou111


You people remind me of Muslims and desecrating THEIR symbols......

Its funny his students turned him in... So his damm students knew there was something wrong with the lesson but he cant figure it out..
It says alot some of the students were offended

Originally posted by HandyDandy
reply to post by goou111

 

You people remind me of Muslims and desecrating THEIR symbols......

what do you mean "you people"

That outrages me but the action is typical public school. A large majority of the teachers really seem to hate our country. Granted the teacher had the right to stomp on the flag but the action in from for children is questionable. Had this happened in my child's class, Hurricane Aunt B would have been there the next morning demanding that I speak to the children to teach them respect for their country's flag.

reply to post by goou111


"You people" who are all up in arms about a symbol.

Jihad anyone?

reply to post by HandyDandy


48 out of 50

hmmm

and was it all laws in those 48.....NO

so there are still laws in the US against being a complete idiot with our freaking national symbol,

Good news, you can move if that is unacceptable to your free speech needs.

reply to post by HandyDandy


It would be ironic if it wasn't so freaking typical.

reply to post by zedVSzardoz


Not all 50 states passed laws concerning it, try again. This seems to be a case of you wanting something to be true when it isn't.

If you want to live in a place where symbol desecration is illegal I suggest moving to Iran or Saudi Arabia.

Originally posted by zedVSzardoz
reply to post by HandyDandy

 

48 out of 50

hmmm

and was it all laws NO

Look at your quote that said 2 states didn't have laws to begin with......

50-2=48

reply to post by HandyDandy


yeah, wishing for things to be true before actually checking what absurdities you say are in fact real.....
some are guilty..... indeed.

State flag-protection laws

Although the U.S. Supreme Court has twice invalidated state flag laws, 47 states still have on the books laws, many modeled after the Uniform Flag Law of 1917, that prohibit the desecration of the flag or its use for advertising and publicity purposes

They can make it three, ten or a thousand. We are free to do what we want in our respective states. It is a FORMALITY to respect the federal government and entirely at our own digression.

www.freedomforum.org...


Alabama Louisiana
North Dakota
Arizona Maine
Ohio
Arkansas Maryland
Oklahoma
California Massachusetts
Oregon
Colorado Michigan
Pennsylvania
Connecticut Minnesota
Rhode Island
Delaware Mississippi
South Carolina
Florida Missouri
South Dakota
Georgia Montana
Texas
Hawaii Nebraska
Utah
Idaho Nevada
Vermont
Illinois New Hampshire Virginia
Indiana New Jersey Washington
Iowa New Mexico West Virginia
Kansas New York Wisconsin
Kentucky North Carolina

Originally posted by AfterInfinity
reply to post by goou111

 

I hope he never gets to teach again and im glad the students told on him

For stomping on the American flag? You're over reacting, I think.

Honestly, we need a new national symbol anyway. I'm thinking a condom would do nicely...

edit on 10-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

People still use them?