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What the Founding Fathers said about guns

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posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:16 PM
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Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
reply to post by Logarock
 

Precisely and that was the problem the Founders did not trust a "standing army".........


Well many of the states didnt trust a federal standing army as the only means of the states and the people to protect themselves against what someday may be a gone mad federal government. The constitution would have never passed without it.

This right is granted to the states. If you ask me the federal government never had the authority to regulate personal weapons at all. Not even interstate transportation of firearms IMO simply because the 2nd amendment is a state and citizen right, that the bill of rights here conflicts with the enumerated powers found in Article I, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution giving congress authority in the Commerce Clause.

Firearms were then listed as or found their way into a contraband class of illegal idems if taxes were not collected and permits paied. The problem is that tobbaco and alcohol and not protected under the bill of rights while firearms are constitutional protected under the 2nd. Thus today we have the ATF........and automatic weapons stamps. This is an idem for states to regulate under the 2nd amendment and not for the feds under the Article.
edit on 11-1-2013 by Logarock because: n




posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 03:59 PM
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Originally posted by jademegjosh
So basically the americans are trigger happy!!!

edit on 10-1-2013 by ADVISOR because: it needed a second line



Oooh, really? Is that why those countires in which firearms are banned or heavily restricted crimes with firearms and crimes in general have EXPONENTIALLY INCREASED?...

If Americans were "trigger happy" there would be over 50 million people in the streets in shootouts, and guess what?... THERE AREN'T...



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 05:17 PM
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reply to post by Bilder
 


I'm sorry, as a US citizen with a brain, you lost me at "Founding Fathers."

To me that just operates as cultural/nationionalistic mind control, sort of like saying "Jesus died for our sins." The words seem to have a similar impact on many people living in the US. Use the words "Founding Fathers" and you get a bunch of people whose eyes glaze over, who roll over on their backs, and who blindly accept whatever interpretation people want to offer .....about what? A bunch of misogynistic white slaver Masons who crafted a document a few hundred years ago? So fuccckkkking what. Seriously?

I don't care about the Constitution or the founding ff#kkking "fathers." And I know that there are many who share my irreverence toward what some hold to be some holy document dictated by men worshipped as, essentially, "Gods."

Me? Not a fan of gods. They like to enslave, to trick people, and to enslave people, all under the guise of "Doing good" or "doing right" or "setting laws into motion."

Bleah.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 05:36 PM
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Estimated civilian firearms: top ten countries by total Sources: Small Arms Survey (2007.
1. United States of America (270,000,000)
2. India (46,000,000)
3. China (40,000,000)
4. Germany (25,000,000)
5. Pakistan (18,000,000)
6. Mexico (15,500,000)
7. Brazil (14,840,000)
8. Russia (12,750,000)
9. Yemen (11,500,000)
10. Thailand (10,000,000)
11. Others (186,410,000)Text


Total U.S Army including Guard and Reserve is 1.1 million.
Navy total including reserve is 700,000.
Marines including reserve is about 250,000,
Air Force including reserve is about 450,000

Law Enforcement:
There are as of 2006, 683,396 full time state, city, university and college, metropolitan and non-metropolitan county, and other law enforcement officers in the United States. There are approx. 120,000 full time law enforcement personnel working for the federal government adding up to a total number of 800,000 law enforcement personnel in the U.S.
edit on 11-1-2013 by MajorKarma because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 05:55 PM
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2nd amendment is meant for a tyrant government that can happen to any government and has happened all throughout history.They will mass murder you is this ever happens to any country if they become like Nazi Germany.It is called common sense.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 06:00 PM
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oy

this is the worst argument for guns EVER

the only advantage the redcoats had over a farm boy was cannons, and it took 3 minutes to load a musket

every single one of them would be horrified to see 34 murders a day and 200 million guns in this country and bushmasters with high capacity clips being used on school kids

no one is taking your precious guns

you may have to reload more often tho

don't let that get in the way of your paranoid fantasies



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 06:51 PM
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when you have to fight off a tyrannical government that has equiped its minions with high powered automatic weapons you wont be able to get off very many shots with a bolt action 7 shot 306 or a 6 shot pump action shot gun. A pistol in those situations wont do you much good either whether it is semi automatic or revolver.

the gun ownership clause or the right to bear arms is there for us to fight a tyrannical govt force either our own or a foreign threat not hunting or sport. when the govt tells you cant own a certain type of gun that they have that law is nul and void because it restricts your right to bear arms to fight against them.

the Ninth amendment is set up so they cannot limit or take away your right to bear any arms you like. But heck they already have and no one batted an eye. Try buying or possessing a even an old M16 from ww2 or vietnam war era. or possessing Arms that are for warfare like grenade launchers, laws rockets and the like. Bear arms is much more than the owning guns or possessing guns, it is the right to have a militia enough to fight a war not hunting.




edit on 11-1-2013 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by syrinx high priest
 




and it took 3 minutes to load a musket

Uh, no. A musket could be fired three of four times each minute.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:08 PM
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Great post! Man here we go again with the " idiots,feeble mind,paranoid," I like the founding fathers basher the best. Man send that guy to China so he can live in a great country with no civilian guns and that stupid Constitution. Thats whats great about this country if you dont like it, you "can" leave. Its going to be a long road 2nd Amend lovers. I for one am proud to be one of those parinoid,feeble minded relics.


Bill



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:37 PM
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Originally posted by HauntWok
Least gun manufacturers still can make a massive profit off of the gullibility and feeble mindedness of a easily terrified people that they can dupe into believing that the government will ever be able to take your guns away.

Good job, keep it up.

lol


Amen it's amazing how little faith Americans have in their own country and government. America is far from teh shining example to the world they feel themselves to be. It's incredibly sad.

I find it laughable when moronic organizations like the NRA try and claim that other countries crime has gone up when guns have been banned, when in EVERY case violence has decreased very significantly. Of course the gullible and easily led will believe anything.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:39 PM
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Originally posted by LifeIsPeculiar
reply to post by syrinx high priest
 




and it took 3 minutes to load a musket

Uh, no. A musket could be fired three of four times each minute.


If you were highly trained and in fact it was far less if you wanted to fire it accurately.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:42 PM
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Originally posted by LipstickMystic
reply to post by Bilder
 


I'm sorry, as a US citizen with a brain, you lost me at "Founding Fathers."

To me that just operates as cultural/nationionalistic mind control, sort of like saying "Jesus died for our sins." The words seem to have a similar impact on many people living in the US. Use the words "Founding Fathers" and you get a bunch of people whose eyes glaze over, who roll over on their backs, and who blindly accept whatever interpretation people want to offer .....about what? A bunch of misogynistic white slaver Masons who crafted a document a few hundred years ago? So fuccckkkking what. Seriously?

I don't care about the Constitution or the founding ff#kkking "fathers." And I know that there are many who share my irreverence toward what some hold to be some holy document dictated by men worshipped as, essentially, "Gods."

Me? Not a fan of gods. They like to enslave, to trick people, and to enslave people, all under the guise of "Doing good" or "doing right" or "setting laws into motion."

Bleah.





Amen, bare in mind this is the land of the simple minded.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Bilder
 


Yes but did you notice that they were referring to the British. Quoting the founding fathers is historical fact but centuries have passed on. Are you saying that things are still the same? Is this your bible???

And what would the august body have made of such slaughter of innocent children in our schools???
And fo rthe $64Bn question "if it was your kid that got blasted to thy kingdom come would you be quoting the constitution or would you be demanding something needs to be done?!Don't forget we live in a country where both houses support "Our soldiers who fight for freedom" but would all become Canadians if their children were called up to fight!



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle
 




"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."


Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)


Oh it did? Add to that RPG's thousands of pounds of military high explosives, other heavy weapons, the Turkish military protecting the border regions and thousands of foreign fighters armed with the latest jihadist terrorist techniques. Hell maybe the FSA will gain power and kill another US ambassador jsut like Libya, because they had so much respect for America.
Care to display anymore ignorance?



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

The reason was that the situation in Syria started out as protest.Then led to armed revolt it started out with Firearms and the people THERE have not been run over.


Are you that ignorant? It started off with highly trained insurgents. 99% of Syrian people have nothing to do with it. Western intelligence agencies are inundated with intelligence reports of foreign jihadists flooding Syria. The FSA has committed just as many atrocities as Assad's government is accused of. Started by the people? If you believe that then you are indeed a fool.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 10:14 PM
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reply to post by syrinx high priest
 
tell all of that tripe to the afghanis(Godless whores) the whole lot.They managed to beat back the soviet horde. No resect for them as a people, Respect their fighters, but I'll killthem just the same.. Years exerience, you got nothing, BABE.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 11:07 PM
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Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Bilder
 


Yes but did you notice that they were referring to the British. Quoting the founding fathers is historical fact but centuries have passed on. Are you saying that things are still the same? Is this your bible???

And what would the august body have made of such slaughter of innocent children in our schools???
And fo rthe $64Bn question "if it was your kid that got blasted to thy kingdom come would you be quoting the constitution or would you be demanding something needs to be done?!Don't forget we live in a country where both houses support "Our soldiers who fight for freedom" but would all become Canadians if their children were called up to fight!


I didnt know the definition of tyranny changed from the centuries passed. I agree our government leaders would become Canadians if their kids were called up or they would move to the Cayman islands where their bank accounts were. I feel for the families of the CT shooting but I dont blame the gun, he could have drove his car through the bus line when the kids were getting on the bus, placed a propane tank and a road flare in a bus or 1000 other things. Yes it sucks and blaming guns is the easy way to comprehend such a heinus crime because most sane people cant fathom such an act, so its the guns fault. Guns are deadly in the wrong hands and everyone has a right to be pissed, I cant imagine what those families are going through but I also know I used a gun to prevent a home breakin at my own home from three men climbing in my 3yr old daughters room. So you will never change my mind.

Bill



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by mad scientist

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

The reason was that the situation in Syria started out as protest.Then led to armed revolt it started out with Firearms and the people THERE have not been run over.


Are you that ignorant? It started off with highly trained insurgents. 99% of Syrian people have nothing to do with it. Western intelligence agencies are inundated with intelligence reports of foreign jihadists flooding Syria. The FSA has committed just as many atrocities as Assad's government is accused of. Started by the people? If you believe that then you are indeed a fool.


99% of the people wanted nothing to do with it ??? Either you are simple or your hatred for guns or the U.S.A has blinded you.Maybe the vemon you spew in your posts has caused a vessel to burst in your head.

I remember watching the protest in Homs at the begining.There was a lot lot more than 1% of the people there.Also in the begining of the revolt they only had mainly rifles.They seized they rest of the equipment. Or people some of them considered allies brought it.Who their allies are is not my concern.Or are you so arrogant you think you should be the one to tell them who they should fight for or who they should fight with.So after reading your replys to other posters on this subject.Even with all you "amens" and I can't believe their arrogance"
your arrogance is the one that show's.

By contradicting your other post you have shown yourself to be a hypocrite.So spew back all the vile vemon you can hurl.I won't feed your ill informed anger with a reply.
edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)
edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 12:04 AM
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Originally posted by Bilder
reply to post by jademegjosh
 


Being trigger happy has nothing to do with it,it has everything to do with the ability to say "No"when the Govt oversteps their authority



I have nothing against the responsable gun owners and feel we are the weapons that prey on one another!
From what I see about the US government policy is how they have already overstepped their authority and none have done anything to stop them! Though the truth is there is not alot we can do! I definately don't see guns as solving the problem of oppression and tyranny! Especially when the tactics of US policy is to divide and conquer!
Especially when violence just distances us from each other! Especially when the moderators of information are dividing our country further! The truth is if they can't take away the weapons we so desperately hold on to, they will turn us against one another even more! They will do this until there are too few of us left for even untiy to prevail! Guns will never protect Americans as long as we are divided along party lines, for the benifit of the controlling heirarchy! Our only hope, Unity is being undermined by this left right paradigm of political ideologies for selfish motivations! Until we become better suited to understand each another, we will continue to degrade socially! God Bless America and save us all !



posted on Jan, 12 2013 @ 12:47 AM
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Originally posted by Camperguy

Originally posted by Tiger5
reply to post by Bilder
 


Yes but did you notice that they were referring to the British. Quoting the founding fathers is historical fact but centuries have passed on. Are you saying that things are still the same? Is this your bible???

And what would the august body have made of such slaughter of innocent children in our schools???
And fo rthe $64Bn question "if it was your kid that got blasted to thy kingdom come would you be quoting the constitution or would you be demanding something needs to be done?!Don't forget we live in a country where both houses support "Our soldiers who fight for freedom" but would all become Canadians if their children were called up to fight!


I didnt know the definition of tyranny changed from the centuries passed. I agree our government leaders would become Canadians if their kids were called up or they would move to the Cayman islands where their bank accounts were. I feel for the families of the CT shooting but I dont blame the gun, he could have drove his car through the bus line when the kids were getting on the bus, placed a propane tank and a road flare in a bus or 1000 other things. Yes it sucks and blaming guns is the easy way to comprehend such a heinus crime because most sane people cant fathom such an act, so its the guns fault. Guns are deadly in the wrong hands and everyone has a right to be pissed, I cant imagine what those families are going through but I also know I used a gun to prevent a home breakin at my own home from three men climbing in my 3yr old daughters room. So you will never change my mind.

Bill


Thankyou Camperguy! So many of us want to ignore the fact that humanity is the real weapon and one that can't be banned so easily! Intead of treating the disease, we instead point fingers at the symptoms! This is the result of the same irresponsable behavior which is leading us to ignore the truth through most of our history! If we were not killers why then would we have ever made all these weapons. Whether it's instilled in our fear or not is obvious to many! If this is not prevalent to those that read this, then many such truths will elude the ignorant, fearful and insecure!
Someone is always using our fears to perpetuate an agenda! Using fear is always been about control. Perpetrated by those that are most insecure! I don't believe for a second that the majority of our leaders really care how many of our children are gunned down but just how much money will the war on guns make them! But just like the war on drugs has, the war on guns will be a way to perpetuate profits for the corporate elite! We saw this truth, in perpetual wars, Fast and furious, Iran contra and many other methods of madness schemes! The price for ignorance is costly to our children, to us and to our future! Though many men like me will speak the truth, most will deny the validity of such statements, not because they are irrational but because of the cognitive dissonance associated in such a belief!





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