What the Founding Fathers said about guns

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

I did not compare the U.S.A to Syria.I answered a question from a poster.He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do.

Seeing as you failed to refute my answer.I can only assume,that you didn't like it.

In the United States, we are the government by way of voting and paying taxes...unless for some reason individuals decide they're above the law and go squirrel up in the back country thinking it doesn't apply - which it still does. This country was built on people agreeing on laws and also providing you the option of leaving if you don't like them. Australia is nice this time of year as well as a bunch of other countries that speak English.

I did "refute" your answer by saying basically this isn't Syria

and that asking them about having a AK-47 is pointless. I am extremely glad I am not Syrian.

edit on 1/11/2013 by skyzeagle because: clarification.

Read it again.I did not claim at any point that this was Syria.Nor did I state that I did not like my Country.What I did do was reply to a question.

You seem confused so to dumb it down for you.The basic question that was asked was.If a goverment ANY goverment came knocking on your door what would a few guns do.

My reply was ask the Syrians.

The reason was that the situation in Syria started out as protest.Then led to armed revolt it started out with Firearms and the people THERE have not been run over.

Are you implying that the United States would be "run over" if not for the dedicated gun owners ready to form a militia?

Let me dumb it down for you: you are holding onto an idea that first requires the notion that there exists or may exist in the future some undetectable, evil force ready to snatch away our freedoms and chain us all up like slaves. You make it sound like the true heroism is in knowing how to shoot a gun, having many of them and being ready to fight, brother, fight.

Here is the dumbest idea of them all: enjoy what relative excess of wealth you have here in the United States compared to many in the world who don't have it. Make money as you can, spend time with your family or friends and in the meantime don't provoke fate by preparing for a horrible future that may not ever come.

No I answered a question I implied nothing, you implied everything.I don't even own a gun anymore.Quit dancing around on the head of a pen.Quit guess at the meaning of nothing but a reply to a question.By implying you know my thoughts you are being telepathetic.

How old do you think Syria is? Implying things is for people who can understand a conversation in process.

I'm not dancing, I'm asking: what kind of person compares, even remotely, a Syrian with a gun to an American with a gun? Two different environments, two different governments. Syria was formed in the 1970s. We are fully 200 years older than Syria as a government. There are no more redcoats or hessians or any other prevailing circumstances - even some bizarro UN threat that will invade our borders and take us down - that really require us to arm up. Like Y2K where people got incredibly freaked and said the sky would fall, the preppers and the people worried about the amounts of guns they have hoarded under the auspices of fear, it was propagated by industry and companies who are more than willing to take your money. When the layers of the onion are peeled away and when the average citizen, including the pro-gun advocates, take a look at everything they'll see. It was the boogey man. The whole better-safe-than-sorry works kind of like the boy who cried wolf: it gets old.

I won't imply or guess to think you know that. You'll just get upset again.

Have you read ANY of my replys.At no time have I ever compared the U.S.A or Syria or to anyone.I compared Gun To Guns.Go back to your first reply to me.Them click where my name is to get the question.Read it then reply or better yet quote where I brought the U.S into any of this.But most of all quit reading what you hope are my thoughts to justify your position.

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Why should we ask the Syrians?

skyzeagle


"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the government) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

You replied: Why should we ask the Syrians?
======================================================================
I am not going to spend my morning taking members to task, correcting their spelling and faulty thinking but I noticed you are from New Hampshire, the "Live Free or Die" and must ask you do you work for the City, Country, State or Federal Government and if you do, did you not swear and oath to support and defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic? And if you are just a private citizen, would you ever trust the Government more than yourself to support and defend your children, your family? If so, what kind of an human being would leave themselves and their loved ones at the mercy of strangers?

Why should we ask the Syrians? Because they are simple peasants who with blood, bone and bullet have resisted the Devils.

Originally posted by MajorKarma

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the government) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Why should we ask the Syrians?

I am not going to spend my morning taking members go task, correcting their spelling and faulty thinking but I noticed you are from New Hampshire, the "Live Free or Die" and must ask you do you work for the City, Country, State or Federal Government and if you do, did you not swear and oath to support and defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic? And if you are just a private citizen, would you ever trust the Government more than yourself to support and defend your children, your family? If so, what kind of an human being would leave themselves and their loved ones at the mercy of strangers?

Why should we ask the Syrians? Because they are simple peasants who with blood, bone and bullet have resisted the Devils.



You characterize my dedication to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness as predicated upon an oath (one that I did not take but would readily do so were I an employee of this state or any federal agency for that matter) that has to somehow be ACTIVELY observed on a regular basis.

In the end when someone is threatening you, we are ALL peasants seeking to preserve what is valuable to us. But the moment one subgroup of people takes it upon themselves to empower themselves above all others without the same power of force (i.e., handguns) then they have tipped the balance of that right that all men, being created equal, possess.

So please don't assume that because where I live and it's state motto is some sort of implication as to how I should or shouldn't view society. Live Free or Die is much larger than handgun ownership.

You sound like a Socialist and supporter of Obama. Interesting how a certain type talks about groups and imply a need for equality; equality that translates to not raising everyone up to a higher level but equality that serves to bring everyone down to a common level; this is certainly what Obama and all those with him and his Globalist Handlers seek to do...NOT ALLOW ONE GROUP TO HAVE DOMINANCE OVER ANOTHER...except of course the group he and his are in.

reply to post by skyzeagle

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

reply to post by Bilder


Now Ive heard it all smh....Owning handguns are a God-given right?!! REALLY? Why do people always leave out the militia part when speaking of the 2nd Amendment?! The Founding Fathers came up with this Amendment to make it so that each state could have a well-regulated(another often ommitted term) militia. Which means that whomever is a gunowner should also be a registered member of that state's militia as well as recieve training on using the weapon. We have a huge amount of gunowners in this country that dont fall into either category. We have a bunch of nutjobs walking around carrying weapons that they have NO idea how to use! Why should Americans have to give up personal safety and deal with mass murders just so nuts can enjoy shooting a gun. Whats more important.....Peoples lives or people being able to enjoy a hobby?!

Originally posted by MajorKarma
skyzeagle

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the government) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

You replied: Why should we ask the Syrians?
======================================================================
I am not going to spend my morning taking members to task, correcting their spelling and faulty thinking but I noticed you are from New Hampshire, the "Live Free or Die" and must ask you do you work for the City, Country, State or Federal Government and if you do, did you not swear and oath to support and defend our Constitution from all enemies foreign or domestic? And if you are just a private citizen, would you ever trust the Government more than yourself to support and defend your children, your family? If so, what kind of an human being would leave themselves and their loved ones at the mercy of strangers?

Why should we ask the Syrians? Because they are simple peasants who with blood, bone and bullet have resisted the Devils.




Follow up:

Please do not make this a sanctimonious argument as to why I really don't care for my kids or family since I don't own a gun. As if - how could I possibly be so inhuman as to ignore their wellbeing without owning a weapon to protect them.

I will explain this to you and anyone else seeking precisely what Our Founding Fathers intended. They intended for us all to pursue Freedom without having to worry or fear for our lives from one citizen to another. The idea of a militia to be formed, in my obviously over-heated view, was to allow for any state wherever it was located especially those bordering other countries or sovereignities, the ability to defend the freedoms outlined in the Constitution and if that meant in the very early stages of this country defending hard-fought and earned land in territories where people may want your land, then so be it.

We simply don't exist like that anymore with the exceptions of some western states. And even then, you better be damned sure you have permission by the law to be shooting at what you're shooting at.

Owning guns and the right to do so is not carte-blanche, it is not a God given or a go ahead from the Constitution to make sure you can do whatever the hell you want by buying guns. This is a bad idea, regardless of mental capacity, mental illness, pre-history of criminal behavior, etc., etc., etc.

People who are of sound mind and sterling reputation all have moments. You never know. Tell me you want that eventuality to occur when John Q. Public is dumped by a girlfriend or his mother dies and loses it.

Stuff happens, and now you're looking at a guy with 40 hand guns, semi-automatics, large magazines, AK-47s and Bushmasters.....and he's wounded. Possibly not personally ready to handle loss.

Think.

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


You guys are absolutely INSANE if you think you would be able to stop the US military from doing anything just because we have citizens with guns. Seems like a false sense of security if you ask me!! Its ironic that the same people that harp about increasing military spending are the same people gripping guns because they are scared of the military taking their weapons?!

Originally posted by SkinsFan913
We have a bunch of nutjobs walking around carrying weapons that they have NO idea how to use!

Come again? The first time I bought a firearm I was required to take a firearm training and safety test. I would guess most (If not all) states do this exact same thing. Every gun owner I know, knows how to use one.

You are ill informed.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)

They're a country smaller than New Jersey. They've been at war with Israel since...forever.

AK-47s did great for them. Look at how much happier they are.

Originally posted by Unidentified_Objective

Originally posted by SkinsFan913
We have a bunch of nutjobs walking around carrying weapons that they have NO idea how to use!

Come again? The first time I bought a firearm I was required to take a firearm training and safety test. I would guess most (If not all) states do this exact same thing. Every gun owner I know, knows how to use one.

You are ill informed.

Here's a simple test: If I can't figure out how to drive a car, it crashes. I hit something. I have to fix it or else I can't drive it regardless of whether or not I took the test.

If I shoot improperly, at the wrong time or simply because it looked like a logical target, I know I took the test. I passed it. Just like every other gun owner. Only this time, I hit somebody. And there's blood. Maybe loss of life.

A little bit harder to fix that.

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)

They're a country smaller than New Jersey. They've been at war with Israel since...forever.

AK-47s did great for them. Look at how much happier they are.

It won't be a whole lot longer for THEM.

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)

They're a country smaller than New Jersey. They've been at war with Israel since...forever.

AK-47s did great for them. Look at how much happier they are.

It won't be a whole lot longer for THEM.

You should mail them your guns. Or better yet, fly over there and fight with them. They might even let you wear the special suicide vest.

reply to post by skyzeagle

Okay then, why has the military become in recent decades such a viable career option for so many? Have amateur militia men and women become the new little leagues to the U.S. Military major league armed forces?

What next? Should we then just teach in high school paramilitary courses and say screw it, it's bound to happen anyway?

To answer your rhetorical question; the military became a prime career option because of the jobs that are not being made. In other words, there are less creators and thinkers than murders and drones. There are less people that think good moral things than those that think of the bad ones, being such as instead of becoming a friend to someone that has offended you, you only think of killing them.

To answer the main point of your rhetorical question; the options are dwindling.

What is the greatest way of getting even with someone? Have them do the forgiving or laying it down on them what they have done to you, as a example, "You were mean to me, you disrespected me, you used me, ect." and then at the end you say "*name of person*, I forgive you." (not applicable to this post here)

The best way to teach people what is right is by showing them. If you say what I'm doing is wrong, then how would you know? In today's world, the line between right and wrong is so blurred that it's hard to tell what's what. To tell if something is right is by how it has helped people physically, not financially. Mentally, not ignorantly. Spiritually, not worldly.

To answer your last question, Your going about it wrong. Meaning, it's up to the person to learn, what you say is that they have no guts, or brains, or balls to do the right thing. Only because they weren't shown it, theory cannot overcome experience.

reply to post by SkinsFan913

I have no idea how to respond to you.Because you left your location blank.I don't know what country you are from therefore I don't know if it is any of your business.

Originally posted by Bilder
Just wanted to clarify a few things for the people out there who dont believe citizens should be armed and try to question the intent of the founding fathers who framed the second Amendment.

"They tell us that we are weak -- unable to cope with so formidable an adversary. But when shall we be stronger? Will it be when we are totally disarmed, and when a British guard shall be stationed in every house? Three million people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us."

The men who wrote the Constitution were very intelligent and understood very well where unchecked power would lead the new Nation,they made sure the second Amendment was set in stone to protect all other rights,it is the teeth of the Constitution.

"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."

The link below shows the mindset of the Founding Fathers and why it was so important to have a fully armed population able to defend themselves from all enemies foreign and domestic ,nothing has really changed since the declaration of independance and in fact I believe the 2nd Amendment has never been more relevant considering where the country is headed,it was written for the times we are now in

www.eskimo.com...

edit on 1/10/2013 by kosmicjack because: fixed caps

The Ninth Amendment is written so that no right previously given to the people can be over-ruled or taken away. Once the Govt says you can not own or possess guns they have violated the constitutional bill of rights and that law is null and void.

reply to post by SkinsFan913


Your going about the wrong way.

You guys are absolutely INSANE if you think you would be able to stop the US military from doing anything just because we have citizens with guns. Seems like a false sense of security if you ask me!! Its ironic that the same people that harp about increasing military spending are the same people gripping guns because they are scared of the military taking their weapons?!

The only insane person here... no, no, no, the only PSYCHOTIC person here is the one... who trusts someone else somewhere else than themselves, for example Barrack Obama, he trusts his guards with the guns than himself.

My point being is that you don't know the bigger picture, do you?

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty

Originally posted by skyzeagle

Originally posted by rockymcgilicutty
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

"He asked what good would a AK-47 or a Bushmaster do if they (the goverment) came knocking on your door?My reply was ask the Syrians what a few guns will do."

Because the question was about guns.AK-47'S apparently did pretty good for THEM when THEIR goverment came knocking on THEIR door.

edit on 11-1-2013 by rockymcgilicutty because: (no reason given)

They're a country smaller than New Jersey. They've been at war with Israel since...forever.

AK-47s did great for them. Look at how much happier they are.

It won't be a whole lot longer for THEM.

You should mail them your guns. Or better yet, fly over there and fight with them. They might even let you wear the special suicide vest.

Again you have shown you failed to read what I posted.I don't own a gun.But I still believe in rights.

Originally posted by FreedomCommander
reply to post by skyzeagle

 

Okay then, why has the military become in recent decades such a viable career option for so many? Have amateur militia men and women become the new little leagues to the U.S. Military major league armed forces?

What next? Should we then just teach in high school paramilitary courses and say screw it, it's bound to happen anyway?

To answer your rhetorical question; the military became a prime career option because of the jobs that are not being made. In other words, there are less creators and thinkers than murders and drones. There are less people that think good moral things than those that think of the bad ones, being such as instead of becoming a friend to someone that has offended you, you only think of killing them.

To answer the main point of your rhetorical question; the options are dwindling.

What is the greatest way of getting even with someone? Have them do the forgiving or laying it down on them what they have done to you, as a example, "You were mean to me, you disrespected me, you used me, ect." and then at the end you say "*name of person*, I forgive you." (not applicable to this post here)

The best way to teach people what is right is by showing them. If you say what I'm doing is wrong, then how would you know? In today's world, the line between right and wrong is so blurred that it's hard to tell what's what. To tell if something is right is by how it has helped people physically, not financially. Mentally, not ignorantly. Spiritually, not worldly.

To answer your last question, Your going about it wrong. Meaning, it's up to the person to learn, what you say is that they have no guts, or brains, or balls to do the right thing. Only because they weren't shown it, theory cannot overcome experience.

edit on 11-1-2013 by FreedomCommander because: (no reason given)

I am sorry to inform you of this, but the military did not become an option because of lack of jobs. It was purely political in it's genesis as an extension of the larger military complex. The idea was to secure even more families futures to what is primarily a conservative philosophy, i.e., republican held beliefs. This may seem extremely cynical, but the truth is there really is no shortage of creativity in job creation in this country. There is a shortage of people with the power to change things over the behemoths who lobby in our Congress to get bills passed on their behalf including the gun lobbyists.

What I will agree with you on is this: leading by example. And as for giving up on this thread you are wrong. There is hope here. And there need not be any rubbing of anyone's nose in anything. The truth is we are all still at the end of the day entitled to buy each other a beer and say "Hey man, skip it. I was a butthead."

You're right, it is up to the person to learn. But you might just be helping both yourself and that other person out by sharing with them your opinion. You learn about who you are and maybe give them something to think about.

So I would like to apologize to Rocky McGillicutty wherever you are. I do live in the United States, I was a butthead, and I do owe you a beer.

reply to post by skyzeagle


No problem you get thick skin on ATS.I realize that on this subject people are passionate about their views.I tip a can of beer back at you for my telepathic remark.BTW look at my mood on my avatar.