The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.”

reply to post by iSHRED


Intelligence is relative...

God has eternity to create the universe.

God might well just be a simpleton with a lot of time and accidental inspiration on his hands.

God is stupid and so are we. We should remember that.... but duhhh we forgot of course!

Praise God. Praise the simps!

The Holy Fools! Mad Mad Men, never doin' nothin' right!

Praise The Dumb.

Although.... God's Stupidity might just be Laziness....

It took forever to create humanity, and in just 2000 years, humanity has managed to create its own destruction.

But I Love that. I love how stupid we are. If we could only harness that stupidity for revolutionary change of minds.

The dumber God's creations get....

The more profound God's creations get....

Unlike humanity on its own.

Humanity just beats its head against a wall.

That's not dumb. That's just retarded... literally.

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

Agreed omnipotent / omniscient god is pretty much out of the picture because it's quite clear that he failed miserably for having all power and knowledge to ever exist. Knowing full well when he created man that it would fail and he'd have to destroy every living creature on earth to make up for it in a giant over reaction. Those are not loving or benevolent traits as much as you guys want them to be. Condemning his own creation to eternal torture for not blindly believing in him despite not giving a single sign to the people to show that he's real. Hmmmmmmmm. Yeah I'll pass at worshiping that.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

If you have read about any gods then that has nothing to do with god... Except the stuff you have heard about gods work from science text books... Of course you know God... If you are at all familiar with the universe and your self, you know God.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

If you have read about any gods then that has nothing to do with god... Except the stuff you have heard about gods work from science text books... Of course you know God... If you are at all familiar with the universe and your self, you know God.

That is your belief of course.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

If you have read about any gods then that has nothing to do with god... Except the stuff you have heard about gods work from science text books... Of course you know God... If you are at all familiar with the universe and your self, you know God.

That is your belief of course.

No Its my awareness of probability and potential.. It is possible an intelligence had something to do with the creation of this universe...It is possible one did not..

How do you know one did not, enough to have your personal opinion be considered more fact then belief..

neither of us, nor anyone has complete knowledge... so noone knows for sure... but there is a truth to the matter..

that is why people of faith, say that, allthough it cannot be proven for certain, from all the evidence, they are compelled to believe that an intelligence created this universe... it is possible then that their belief aligns with the truth...

you are compelled to think the opposite.. it is possible your belief aligns with the truth...

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by iSHRED

Originally posted by PnezakYahakotima
reply to post by iSHRED

 

God is stupid and so are we.

idk what god you know... my God is far from stupid

I don't know any gods, but am of the opinion I would have done a better job than many of the ones I've read about.

If you have read about any gods then that has nothing to do with god... Except the stuff you have heard about gods work from science text books... Of course you know God... If you are at all familiar with the universe and your self, you know God.

That is your belief of course.

No Its my awareness of probability and potential.. It is possible an intelligence had something to do with the creation of this universe...It is possible one did not..

As I stated, it is your belief, not fact.

How do you know one did not, enough to have your personal opinion be considered more fact then belief..

I made no assertions that there are no gods, just that I do not believe in them.

neither of us, nor anyone has complete knowledge... so noone knows for sure... but there is a truth to the matter..

I agree, no-one knows, that is why I make no assertions. You are also correct that there is truth to the matter, just no-one knows if the truth is that there are gods or not.

that is why people of faith, say that, allthough it cannot be proven for certain, from all the evidence, they are compelled to believe that an intelligence created this universe... it is possible then that their belief aligns with the truth...

As I said in my previous reply, that is your belief.

you are compelled to think the opposite..

No I'm not, I make no assertions either way. I do not believe there are any gods, I do not believe there are not...I have no conclusive evidence to support the different positions, no-one does.

it is possible your belief aligns with the truth...

I lack any particular belief, but have seen nothing in my life to believe in anything mystical or supernatural. It is unfortunate if that position challenges you.

reply to post by grainofsand


So using what you do know and have seen, what would be your best bet on the position, or is it a foolish topic to think about?

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by grainofsand

 

So using what you do know and have seen, what would be your best bet on the position, or is it a foolish topic to think about?

If I was forced to bet money on the assertion 'there are gods' it would be an amount no greater than I would feel comfortable to lose. This is of course due to the obvious lack of any substantive evidence to prove this.

If forced to bet money on the assertion 'there are no gods' it would again be no more than I would feel comfortable sitting at the betting shop for possibly the rest of my life. This is of course due to the lack of any real way to establish such a claim as fact.

Absence of evidence supporting claims of gods is not evidence of absence of such gods, but when combined with the clearly conflicting versions of gods in many religions throughout history, it would be reasonable to consider the claims as unlikely.

In short, I put the idea of gods in the same unproven and unprovable category as pixies, fairies, dragons, goblins, unicorns, angels, demons, ghosts, griffins, cyclops, mermaids and similar. Many people have and continue to believe in such things today.
I do not, but as much as believers are unable to prove their claims, there is no way to prove such things do not exist.
That is my honest and reasoned perspective on the matter, anything more would be a solely faith based position which is something I generally avoid in life.

Do you want to study rigorous, mathematical evidence for the existence of God? Are you even up to the task? If it could be shown to you that the sacred geometries at the heart of Judaism and Hinduism, as well as the five Platonic solids and other examples, not only encode the stupendous map of all levels of reality but are also isomorphic to one another, despite originating in cultures thousands of years and miles apart, would it make you want to know more about such evidence for design by transcendental intelligence?

If, like me, you believe that mathematics can access where words and philosophy fail to reach, you may want to study the research here. It contains amazing, original discoveries that would convince any atheist of the existence of God. In fact, what you will discover there if you look hard enough is nothing less than supernatural.....

reply to post by micpsi
Thank you for the link. I have previously researched such concepts, among many other spiritual/religious faiths, at length over many years. I remain unconvinced.
I also note the lack of any paradigm shift in opinion of more learned folk than myself, and would expect any definitive research to be presented in a website which does not rely on a free webhosting service.

Originally posted by grainofsand

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by grainofsand

 

So using what you do know and have seen, what would be your best bet on the position, or is it a foolish topic to think about?

If I was forced to bet money on the assertion 'there are gods' it would be an amount no greater than I would feel comfortable to lose. This is of course due to the obvious lack of any substantive evidence to prove this.

If forced to bet money on the assertion 'there are no gods' it would again be no more than I would feel comfortable sitting at the betting shop for possibly the rest of my life. This is of course due to the lack of any real way to establish such a claim as fact.

Absence of evidence supporting claims of gods is not evidence of absence of such gods, but when combined with the clearly conflicting versions of gods in many religions throughout history, it would be reasonable to consider the claims as unlikely.

In short, I put the idea of gods in the same unproven and unprovable category as pixies, fairies, dragons, goblins, unicorns, angels, demons, ghosts, griffins, cyclops, mermaids and similar. Many people have and continue to believe in such things today.
I do not, but as much as believers are unable to prove their claims, there is no way to prove such things do not exist.
That is my honest and reasoned perspective on the matter, anything more would be a solely faith based position which is something I generally avoid in life.

Ok thats nice and all, but we already agreed that there is a truth to the manner of whether or not an intelligence created this universe.... there is an answer to that question... using what you know of the universe, what would be your best guess... it cant be that, an intelligence didnt create universe, and the universe was not accidentally, naturally created.. what other options would there be? I guess it could be a mix of both... but yea, Im not asking you to be faithful or believe in anything.. only knowing that there is a true cause to the existence of this universe ( a God, or no god),, what do you think is the truth? and if you decide to answer this time, i would like to hear why?

Originally posted by ImaFungiwhat do you think is the truth? and if you decide to answer this time, i would like to hear why?

I have explained my position well enough. Please feel free to message me if there are any sections of it you do not understand though.

reply to post by ImaFungi

Ok thats nice and all, but we already agreed that there is a truth to the manner of whether or not an intelligence created this universe.... there is an answer to that question... using what you know of the universe, what would be your best guess... it cant be that, an intelligence didnt create universe, and the universe was not accidentally, naturally created.. what other options would there be? I guess it could be a mix of both... but yea, Im not asking you to be faithful or believe in anything.. only knowing that there is a true cause to the existence of this universe ( a God, or no god),, what do you think is the truth? and if you decide to answer this time, i would like to hear why?

It is not unusual for people to project their own feelings onto a physical situation. Here you project your own opinion onto the situation of the universe.

This sort of projection can be seen in a simpler situation. I've met a number of gold panners and asked them how they knew where to look for gold. Many times they tell that they are looking for black sand. They tell me that black sand draws in the gold. They say that the gold has an affinity for black sand and the gold moves to the black sand.

The idea is not correct. It involves and I am certain because I asked many questions, that there is a belief that gold has a personality or if you will a consciousness because it makes decision. The decision is to like or in some way to prefer the company of black sand.

What is observed is that black sand and gold are found together. That is correct. What is wrong is the notion that the gold in some way makes a decision to be with the black sand.

The black sand is a collection of heavy mineral. It is often hematite or pieces of mafic minerals that are dense. These are dark minerals rich in iron or manganese. The gold particles are even denser. The action of water sorts the materials being transported by density.

Not sure why the gold panners gave some purpose or intent to the process, but they have. They continue to believe in that notion because it helps them find gold. Does it work for other purposes? No. In fact, gold can be found where the black sand has been swept away.

People do project themselves onto what they see. People do anthropomorphize the world around them. It's just something we do.

Originally posted by iSHRED
This link has the two parts of his talk on the subject of how there is no other option in the universe but intelligent design.

No other option, eh?

The fool says in his heart, “There is a God.”

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by iSHRED
This link has the two parts of his talk on the subject of how there is no other option in the universe but intelligent design.

No other option, eh?

The fool says in his heart, “There is a God.”

edit on 23-1-2013 by john_bmth because: (no reason given)

Actually, I'd like to touch on that for a minute. Has anyone heard of entropy? 2nd law of thermodynamics. States that all things tend from order to disorder over time. Basically, it's an adaption race. According to science, that happened basically from the moment some chemicals happened to form the exact formula needed to generate life. Autonomous organisms capable of reproducing and feeding. And eventually, these organisms began to question the stars whose material they are constructed from. Now, all of this happens randomly, chaotically. There was no intent, no focus, no will behind it. If you throw the components of a timepiece from a distance equivalent to the space between the sun and Pluto, what are the chances the watch will fall to the ground perfectly assembled and functioning?

Originally posted by stereologist
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Ok thats nice and all, but we already agreed that there is a truth to the manner of whether or not an intelligence created this universe.... there is an answer to that question... using what you know of the universe, what would be your best guess... it cant be that, an intelligence didnt create universe, and the universe was not accidentally, naturally created.. what other options would there be? I guess it could be a mix of both... but yea, Im not asking you to be faithful or believe in anything.. only knowing that there is a true cause to the existence of this universe ( a God, or no god),, what do you think is the truth? and if you decide to answer this time, i would like to hear why?

It is not unusual for people to project their own feelings onto a physical situation. Here you project your own opinion onto the situation of the universe.

This sort of projection can be seen in a simpler situation. I've met a number of gold panners and asked them how they knew where to look for gold. Many times they tell that they are looking for black sand. They tell me that black sand draws in the gold. They say that the gold has an affinity for black sand and the gold moves to the black sand.

The idea is not correct. It involves and I am certain because I asked many questions, that there is a belief that gold has a personality or if you will a consciousness because it makes decision. The decision is to like or in some way to prefer the company of black sand.

What is observed is that black sand and gold are found together. That is correct. What is wrong is the notion that the gold in some way makes a decision to be with the black sand.

The black sand is a collection of heavy mineral. It is often hematite or pieces of mafic minerals that are dense. These are dark minerals rich in iron or manganese. The gold particles are even denser. The action of water sorts the materials being transported by density.

Not sure why the gold panners gave some purpose or intent to the process, but they have. They continue to believe in that notion because it helps them find gold. Does it work for other purposes? No. In fact, gold can be found where the black sand has been swept away.

People do project themselves onto what they see. People do anthropomorphize the world around them. It's just something we do.

Well this is ironic and awkward.... I believe my post you replied to speaks for its self in the amount of sense it attempts to grasp at... you seem to be projecting onto me, that I believe the universe is an animal or something.... or whatever the case is, you are projecting the maximum of what you are able to think about; what I said and what and how I think and why I think that way.. onto me...
Your answer to the questions brought up in the post you replied to would be " No an intelligence did not create the universe" ..... If thats what you believe... so be it. It is not however, a very rational or skeptically cautious proof... It is full of emotion, misunderstanding, ignorance and confusion... Im not saying I know what the universe is or what created it, or if an intelligence was involved...

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Are you trying to play "How many creationist fallacies can we fit into one post"? If so, you're winning.