Question for people that live in the USA

reply to post by OperationLovestrike


It's only stupid if you didn't understand the question...

reply to post by superman2012


I do understand it. You're implying that Americans (citizens, not politicians) are trying to stick our nose in others business when that simply isn't the case. Our government (which is oppressive and isn't really OUR government anymore) are the ones doing the peddling. If there is anyone who needs to be pointed at for a double standard, then it is the modern authoritarian liberals, Neo-cons, or our very own government. Most of the people on here are libertarian minded people (Paleo- Conservative, Classic liberal)

By the way, You're the first person to reply to me on this site since I've been on haha exciting

reply to post by OperationLovestrike


Glad I could be the first!

I am implying that the average american ATS member (generalizing, yes I know) who I have witnessed, is very quick to say that Iran should give up all nuclear programs (remember: there is as much proof that they are building bombs as there is proof that all americans are going to take their guns and march into Canada) while at the same time getting mad at any other country for giving their opinion on the 2nd amendment.

I have clarified it using a better example though, here.

Edit: I agree on your views of the US government though.

reply to post by superman2012


I don't think we should get involved with the Iranian situation either way. My view is that Israel seems to be pulling us into situations which may result in us having to go into more wars. I see what you're saying, but I believe the Iranian issue and US gun control issue are two different ball parks. I see why Americans such as myself are upset by foreigners suggesting gun control, when it has to do with our right to protect from oppressive government. As for the people who get involved with Iranian nuclear developments, it's just a concern for the well-being of potentially millions of lives around the World.

reply to post by superman2012


There, I gave you a star thing lol

reply to post by OperationLovestrike

As for the people who get involved with Iranian nuclear developments, it's just a concern for the well-being of potentially millions of lives around the World.

If they are indeed pursuing nuclear weapons, then I completely agree with you. So far there is no proof, so it is their national (nuclear power plants) issue.

reply to post by superman2012


I actually believe that noone in the world should be allowed to possess nuclear weapons. After America and Russia saw the awesome power of these weapons, there should've been a world ban on them. How'd Israel, Pakistan or India get them? Dirty dealing all around and all who let it happen should be led before a firing squad for crimes against humanity. I'm not an Iran hater. In fact, I believe them to be a peaceful people and defend them, in most cases. I think they are being bullied by Israel and the U.S. gov..

But the U.S. Constitution is not up for editing, especially by foreign powers. It is illegal and an act of war. I don't care if people in Iran are allowed to own weapons or not. All I know is many here fought and died for our rights, and there's no ther way the people could defend themselves from a tyrannical government, and our forefathers knew this. They knew America would fall into the wrong hands and be used for evil, like it is today.

Please do not generalize all of america's people by the ideals of the few people who are able to vocalize and spread their opinions. Mainstream media is awful, they broadcast anything that is "edgey" while avoiding anyone with a bit of common sense. A good movie to watch about this is "God Bless America"

I, as an american, do not agree with my government's decision in becoming an imperialist power. Nor do I believe in the removal of the second amendment. I believe that our founding fathers had a great idea and along time that view has been distorted. At least slavery is gone though.

Pretty sure i'm going to try to move to canada in my lifetime anyway.

reply to post by IamRoy08


I wasn't generalizing all of the American people by a long shot.
Sure, come on up here, we'd be happy to have you, eh?

Perhaps Iran knows best what problems they have, and it doesn't help when we agree with their assertions and that we should stipulate that they should not control nuclear weapons.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

 

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
I said that, if the OP wanted to discuss hypocrisy on the part of Americans, then he should be able to prove that such existed in the first place. So far, I still don't see that proven.

Americans deplore terrorism when perpetrated upon them by foreign powers (think Al-Queda) but support terrorism when their government says it's ok. (supporting the FSA, think Al-Queda).

The above should be the clearest example.

Ruby Ridge, Waco and the MOVE organization were clear cut examples of terrorism perpetrated by government against its people. Also, there is the Kent State shootings. All of these are covered under the definition of terrorism (shown above) of point #1.

Those are actions of the government, not of citizens expressing their opinions. Calling citizens hypocrites for the actions of the government isn't reasonable.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Drone strikes in a war are not terrorism

Originally posted by superman2012
Think about that statement. Even if only one innocent was killed, would the drones not inspire terror to the people living there. What if a country was doing that to the states? What if it was your child that died as a result of bad intel? I don't even know why I bothered to respond to this ridiculous statement.

Innocent people die in wars; that doesn't mean that wars are the same as terrorism. When terrorists try to hide in this country, our government (at least most of it...) tries to root them out, before they can act. Other nations have been known to harbor and support them. What ours is doing now is another topic.

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
If you do consider those things terrorism, then, under your perceptions of those events, that would be hypocritical on the part of the government. Even in that case, I don't see that being on the part of the people.

Originally posted by superman2012
Most people would consider them terrorism. The government represents the people and is elected by the people. To blame the government for all wrongdoings is either a simple way to duck responsibility, or an easy way to try and stop this discussion.

Edit: Plus with my example at the top of this post, it was Americans sending private donations to the FSA, as well as the government. A clear cut example of hypocrisy.

edit on 13-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

If certain officials are corrupt, then people can vote them out, or try to. Blaming all citizens for the acts of corrupt politicians isn't justified. You called people hypocrites, for the actions of an over-sized government. That is right on topic for the discussion.

The actions of a government are not the same as the actions of a people. No one actually believes that the elected officials do only what "the people" tell them to. We elect those we believe will best serve our interests, but that system isn't perfect.

Originally posted by superman2012
reply to post by OperationLovestrike

 

Glad I could be the first!

I am implying that the average american ATS member (generalizing, yes I know) who I have witnessed, is very quick to say that Iran should give up all nuclear programs (remember: there is as much proof that they are building bombs as there is proof that all americans are going to take their guns and march into Canada) while at the same time getting mad at any other country for giving their opinion on the 2nd amendment.

I have clarified it using a better example though, here.

Edit: I agree on your views of the US government though.

edit on 14-1-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

So, you are comparing a nuclear program in the hands of a violent government to personal gun ownership, just as the initial post implied, and many stated. Do you truly not see the difference? No amount of guns owned by a private citizen can threaten other nations (unless they invade), but nuclear weapons can. When a government states, as that of Iran HAS stated, that they want to destroy other nations, then every sensible nation (and MANY agree on this regarding Iran) wants to keep that threatening nation from having nukes.

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes


I'm sorry that I don't know how to make it any clearer for you.


Iran: No proof of nuclear weapons being produced
=
They are enriching for power production.
=
National, not worldwide, issue.


US: 2nd amendment being talked about.
=
US citizens don't like foreigners talking about it.
=
National, not worldwide, issue.

Do you understand yet?

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Innocent people die in wars; that doesn't mean that wars are the same as terrorism. When terrorists try to hide in this country, our government (at least most of it...) tries to root them out, before they can act. Other nations have been known to harbor and support them. What ours is doing now is another topic.

It is the exact same as terrorism. Perhaps you should check out the literal meaning and not what it is being used for today...America attacking it's ME enemies. Terrorism isn't just flying planes into buildings...

reply to post by LadyGreenEyes

Those are actions of the government, not of citizens expressing their opinions. Calling citizens hypocrites for the actions of the government isn't reasonable.

BS. First of all, you elect and should hold them responsible for their actions. Secondly, public CITIZENS were the ones who were supporting/donating to the FSA (Al-Queda). I would ask that you please stop bringing up the same things and concentrate on what I was attempting to ask you. I "dumbed it down" a couple posts above. Please don't take that the wrong way and focus on my wording.