UK skewing murder rates? Peirce Morgan vs Larry Pratt

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posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 09:27 PM
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I was watching Perice Morgan and Larry Pratt going at it over the UK murder rate.




So I started doing some research. I remember talking to my friend Tom in the UK and he was telling me there was talk about banning long kitchen knives because of all the crimes committed with them.


I found this site: www.murderuk.com... Seems credible...


In 1967 the government changed the way crimes were recorded. Some originally recorded as homicide were no longer counted as homicide, these include deaths caused by the IRA, which were moved from murder to acts of terrorism. for example, and those reclassified as manslaughter.


Since the UK banned most firearms it would make sense to reclassify its murders to make the numbers appear smaller. While it appears it is true the UK does have a lower murder rate than the US, Overall crime is up in the UK since the gun ban.





Assault victims 2.8% 1.2%
DEFINITION: People victimized by assault (as a % of the total population). Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevelence.
SOURCE: UNICRI (United Nations Inter-regional Crime and Justice Research Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March. Turin
Ranked 2nd. 133% more than United States Ranked 11th.

Rape victims 0.9% 0.4%
DEFINITION: People victimized by sexual assault (as a % of the total population). Data refer to female population only. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.
SOURCE: UNICRI (United Nations Inter-regional Crime and Justice Research Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March. Turin
Ranked 6th. 125% more than United States Ranked 13th.

Total crime victims 26.4% 21.1%
DEFINITION: People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats. Crime statistics are often better indicators of prevalence of law enforcement and willingness to report crime, than actual prevalence.
SOURCE: UNICRI (United Nations Inter-regional Crime and Justice Research Institute). 2002. Correspondence on data on crime victims. March. Turin
Ranked 3rd. 25% more than United States Ranked 15th.


Since the UK Government seems to skew the data in my opinion there is a conspiracy here.

If you have a firearm you have a better chance to fight back against another armed individual, especially in your own home.

I conceal carry a .45 everyday and use a 12 gauge for home defense since it is less likely to exit the room or home if I happen to miss.

"When seconds count the Police are always minutes away."

It is my opinion; the carriage of a firearm does not prevent crime but it can improve your chances over being a defenseless victim provided you are proficient and trained in its safe use.

If someone finds the video before I do please add it to the thread.
edit on 9-1-2013 by SWCCFAN because: Add Video
edit on 9-1-2013 by SWCCFAN because: Update video to the full interview




posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:23 PM
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Well I found the full video.

It is worth watching a few times.... I caught a few things I missed lol.

Morgan is truly a tool playing his part in a scripted act, as is the rest of the "liberal media". I don't trust the MSM and yes that includes FOX they get to play the conservative side.

Watch it for yourself and comment as you please but keep it civil.

Personal attacks only prove that you can not articulate an intelligent counter point.

Does the UK skew the numbers?

What about the US skewing their numbers?

The Second amendment is quite clear: "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

At the time (1789) it was the exact same type of rifle as the Military used at the time.

edit on 9-1-2013 by SWCCFAN because: Clarify points



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:34 PM
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According to Morgan there were 39 "gun murders" in the UK in 2011. So all the other people killed with bats, knives, and other weapons don"t matter?

Murder is murder end of story, the tool used is irrelevant other than being used as evidence to present in hopes of achieving a conviction.

There is no way to prevent any crime but you can take mitigating steps to deter it.

Which text, if put on a sign would be a better deterrent to all types of crimes:

This is a weapons free zone. Guns, Knives, and other items that may be used as a weapon are prohibited.

Or

Potential criminals be aware. People may be armed; Castle Doctrine and Stand your ground laws apply here.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:42 AM
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screw it, lets ban hands. How many mass murders were carried out by those without hands? How many genocides were carried out by those without hands? None...
BING-I just got it, lets ban mass shootings.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:47 AM
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edit on 10-1-2013 by Rising Against because: I feel as though I misunderstood. Please disregard this post. Apologies.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:50 AM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Morgan did screw up a bit, when Pratt was talking about the 900 gun deaths over there. Morgan cut him off and said Pratt was just trying to scare Americans into buying more guns. Why would Americans buy more guns if the gun murder rate was higher over there?



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:56 AM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Well here are facts that eLPresidente's thread brought up.





The UK is the most violent Country in the EU, according to Ben and his stats......
edit on 10-1-2013 by sonnny1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:58 AM
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Originally posted by SWCCFAN
According to Morgan there were 39 "gun murders" in the UK in 2011. So all the other people killed with bats, knives, and other weapons don"t matter?

Murder is murder end of story, the tool used is irrelevant other than being used as evidence to present in hopes of achieving a conviction.



How about apples with apples how many murders in the USA in that period not just with guns any murder.


The US has the highest gun ownership rate in the world - there are 89 guns for every 100 Americans, compared to 6 in England and Wales.



And the murder figures themselves are astounding for Brits used to around 550 murders per year. In 2011 - the latest year for which detailed statistics are available - there were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.


So lets see around 60m population in the UK 550 murders in total, USA around 300m population 12,664 murders.

USA five time the UK population but 23 times more murders lets narrow it down to GUN murders 39 v 8583

220 times more gun murders, guns make things safer


You are a violent bunch aren't you!!!



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:14 AM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 


Well I will just throw this out there, im in no way racist, yeah I know that is typical thing to say before saying something that can be perceived as racist. But facts are facts and statistics don't lie.
Just for yourself because I would not want to be accused of making stuff up.
look up the African American population in the US, then compare it to the UK
look up the demographics of prison in both countries.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:30 AM
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The violent crime rate in the UK is high because of the way violent crime is interpreted.

We have already gone over this in another thread that has been linked by a poster above.

The actual physical violent crime rate (where people actually get hurt) is much lower.

Shouting abuse at someone in the street is recorded as violent crime, and things like this make up the percentage of the figures, not actual physical violent crime.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:43 AM
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There were 12,664 murders in the US. Of those, 8,583 were caused by firearms.

Even these numbers are misleading in many states you will be arrested for murder(Homicide) for shooting a criminal that breaks into your home.
And in many cases it will take a year or more to clear your self in court.

The government never keep records of these cases except calling them Homicides and the government never goes back and corrects the records when the cases are changed to a justifiable homicide.

But these charts done by the UK news media will show there is a rising number of justifiable homicides that had been called murders.
www.guardian.co.uk...

www.claytoncramer.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:29 AM
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Originally posted by Superhans
reply to post by wmd_2008
 


Well I will just throw this out there, im in no way racist, yeah I know that is typical thing to say before saying something that can be perceived as racist. But facts are facts and statistics don't lie.
Just for yourself because I would not want to be accused of making stuff up.
look up the African American population in the US, then compare it to the UK
look up the demographics of prison in both countries.


Whats that got to do with figures of the total number of murders



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 08:07 AM
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Larry Pratt and Alex Jones were correct. The UK leads the EU in violent crime.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 08:19 AM
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The UK has SIX TIMES the violent crime rate than the US.

BTW... Pierce, or whatever his name is, is flat out WRONG! The UK had 59 gun murders in 2011! But even that stat doesn't tell the story. per capita, the UK has 3 times the rate of rape, 5 times the number of robberies, 7 times the burglaries and 6 times the violent crime rate.

Anyone want to take a stab at why? Maybe because people in the UK are prevented, by law, from protecting themselves?

I'm done with this stupid debate. The Constitution states, "The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed" - PERIOD! There is no discussion without a Constitutional Amendment that passes the muster of a Constitutional Convention convened by the states. PERIOD!

I challenge Obama and his brain-dead minions to come for our guns. That would constitute an act of war, treason and sedition against the people of this country. The majority, military and police included, will NOT stand for it!



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 08:24 AM
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This is why Pierce works so hard to focus the argument on "gun" crime.

If he were an Amazon he'd be trotting out glorious figures on how low the "male-crime" is while his female society bludgeons each other to death daily.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


I suggest YOU check what gets classed as a VIOLENT crime in different countries.

ALL Murders in USA 2011 total 14,612 UK 564.

USA 5 times UK population 25 times the murder rate!!!!

Have a suck on that!!!!



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:15 PM
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reply to post by wmd_2008
 


Firearms are totally outlawed in Mexico yet:


A total of 101,199 murders were registered in Mexico during President Felipe Calderon's six-year administration, with about 50 percent of the killings drug-related, a report released Tuesday by the Mexico Evalua think tank says.

Read more: latino.foxnews.com...


Just FYI in case you haven't heard Eric Holder's justice dept. sent hundreds of firearms to Mexico under "Operation Fast and Furious"

Most of the murders in the us are gang related and in major cities like Chicago IL, Which by the way is a "Gun Free Zone" and Guess who got the title of murder capitol of the nation????

If you disarm the law abiding citizens all types of crime will escalate. Do some research and come on back.

Thanks for commenting



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:04 PM
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Most of these points have already been addressed on another thread.......

It is recognized and accepted that crime figures between countries in the EU CANNOT be reliably compared for lots of reason's...different police forces....different ways of reporting and recording crime...different ways in which how individual crimes show up in statistics..I would say this is a very important consideration but surprise surprise THAT isn't mentioned widely by those with an agenda.

You quite simply CANNOT compare violent crime statistics between the UK and the US for one very important reason.....the FBI official statistics it releases for violent crime only includes 4 crimes which are murder/manslaughter, robbery, forced rape, aggravated assault.
In comparison the UK's official statistics it releases for violent crime includes all of the above 4 crimes plus...assault, harassment...behaviour likely to cause fear or alarm, illegal possession of firearms....possession of other weapons....possession of blades in a public place....child abduction...ALL sexual crimes even without forced rape.... and many many more.

It's the same for all countries...which is why the video shows South Africa has more favourable violent crime statistics than the UK. I mean come on seriously...doe's anyone actually believe that South Africa is a safer place to live than the UK? ...that should alert any intelligent person to think there is more to what is actually being reported!

People need to stop being spoon fed by the media and propaganda and do their own research and exhibit a little "free" thinking!



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:50 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


So are you saying that as a country Mexico is on a par with the USA ie life stlye, opportunities etc if so why do so many Mexicans want into the USA why don't you compare yourself to some other third world countries.

What I find really really ironic on here is that a gun lovers claim that the 2nd amendment allows then to take up arms if the government goes against the people, now the reason I think it's ironic is that many members on here claim the US armed forces have arms 50 yrs ahead of what you see so what use would your guns be in that situation


After all many members here claim death rays were used on the Twin towers , or that mini nuclear devices were used (no radiation lol) so you would be out gunned anyway!

Also with the wording of the 2nd amendment there are many ways to interpret what it actually means after all it was written a few years ago and weapons are not the same.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:54 PM
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reply to post by SWCCFAN
 


Larry is great.





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