Why Kid Yourself America, Gun Control isn Not About the 2nd Ammendment

reply to post by michael1983l


The constitution states that an individuals' right to bear arms may be infringed for NO REASON, other than if that person is declared a danger to himself or his fellow citezenry.

"Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty, teeth and keystone under independence. The church, the plow, the prairie wagon and citizens' firearms are indelibly related. From the hour the pilgrims landed to the present day, events, occurrences and tendencies prove that, to ensure peace, security and happiness, the rifle and pistol are equally indispensable. Every corner of this land knows firearms, and more than 99 and 99/100 percent of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms anywhere and everywhere restrains evil influence. They deserve a place of honor with all that's good. When firearms go, all goes. We need them every hour." - George Washington -

"Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of. Notwithstanding the military establishments in the several kingdoms of Europe, which are carried as far as the public resources will bear, the governments are afraid to trust the people with arms. And it is not certain that with this aid alone they would not be able to shake off their yokes. But were the people to possess the additional advantages of local governments chosen by themselves, that could collect the national will and direct the national force, and of officers appointed out of the militia, by these governments and attached both to them and to the militia, it may be affirmed with the greatest assurance that the throne of every tyranny in Europe would be speedily overturned in spite of the legions which surround it." - James Madison -

"Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every kingdom in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword, because the whole of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops." - Noah Webster -

Need I say more?

A Primer on the American Constitution

reply to post by michael1983l


In 2011 240 average american citizens saved they're own lives with a gun.More were saved by police using a gun to protect them.Having said that,with us being on the site do we seem like the kind of people that trust our government to you?
If we let our government take away our rights,do you think we trust them not to come out shooting?Being part native american,I can tell you from history what happened to my ancestors when they laid down they're guns to the army.They were promptly shot!But lets forget about all that shall we,and lets just pretend that our government has our best interests at heart.I mean you see it in the deals they make for us like nafta and others.You see how they do what we want when we peacefully protest about NOT bailing the banks out.You see it in how they keep saying social security is going to run out despite us paying in it for years.I could go on and on,I'll hang on to my guns thank you very much.I may not be able to kill a lot of people with them,but I'll take out as many as I can if it ever comes down to it.Just please god don't ever let it come down to it.It's not something I ever want to have to do.

reply to post by ganjoa


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We're your peers, I don't like it any more than you do, but we have similar culture and morals. That's all there is to it.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Its about power. You all masquerade that it is about protecting your civil liberties and your constitution, but it is not is it? start being honest with yourselves and others about the real reason you want to keep your gun. It is about feeling powerful isn't it?

Man bone up on some constitutional philosophy over here. It is and was about power to the people. A revolutionary new idea in the relationship between man and the state, the citizen and the structure.....a well armed population necessary for a free state.

You are simply a troll of an intimidated person. Do you work in government over there? Winston Churchill indeed.

Originally posted by Gumerk
reply to post by michael1983l

 

I'm an American. I disagree with your assumption regarding our beloved second amendment. Here are my thoughts...

I don't want an AR-15 semi automatic assault rifle to go hunting with. No, I want it to defend ourselves if an intruder or a tyrannical government decides to force their way in our home and attempt to infringe on our right to exist, and/or our right to keep and bear arms. Giving up American liberties would never happen all at once, it would come in small increments, so DON'T GIVE AN INCH!

Thing is that few in the goverment like to see thier position as one that would at any point be thought of as the seat of tyranny. After all they are the cream of the crop....the elites. Dosent set well with them that folks are shaking their 2nd amendment rights in their face.

Each has his own reasons, for some you are correct, but I imagine that those who fall into that that category are gang members. The reason for the second amendment is to give the right to Americans to prepare for an unseen future.

There are way too many guns out there for sure. Please don't kid yourself into believing that any place is completely safe from those who would use them for evil gains. The govt is the biggest pusher and owner of firearms.

I do not own any guns, but I also feel unprepared for certain future circumstances. No one can know fore sure what tomorrow brings, but it is fact that there are a lot of guns in the hands of the wrong people already. It is for this reason that we keep some hidden away in our homes. God forbid our lives ever depend on them.

Originally posted by michael1983l
Its about power. You all masquerade that it is about protecting your civil liberties and your constitution, but it is not is it? start being honest with yourselves and others about the real reason you want to keep your gun. It is about feeling powerful isn't it? That is all it is, you think that owning a gun makes you powerful, because you have the ability to take somebodys life should you choose to do so. This makes you feel all warm and fuzzy inside, that you have the power to end a life at the detention of your trigger finger. You do not want your government to take this power away from you because it will leave a void in your life. You feel so strongly about this that you are willing to see so many deaths of your citizens each year to uphold your right to feel powerful oops i mean bear arms.

Maybe if you all started being honest about why you really don't want gun control, then us outsiders might be able to accept your reasoning.

Just a thought.

You're wrong. I know you THINK you have some kind of special insight to Americans (who knows why), but trust me, you don't. You sound like you watch too much TV.

It's not about power, it's pretty simple actually, drugs are illegal in America but people still get those, so ban guns from the law abiding citizens and guess what...the criminals will still find ways to get guns leaving all of us innocent people unable to protect ourselves.

...oh, and you can't forget all of the people who like to hunt...

No, it's about being a small woman and knowing that I live in an area swamped with meth heads. No danger there at all. No need to have a weapon there at all.

What I don't get about the anti-gun control contingent is, it's not exactly unprecedented in US history post 2nd Amendent.

Pioneer publications show Old West leaders repeatedly arguing in favor of gun control. City leaders in the old cattle towns knew from experience what some Americans today don't want to believe: a town which allows easy access to guns invites trouble. What these cow town leaders saw intimately in their day-to-day association with guns is that more guns in more places caused not greater safety, but greater death in an already dangerous wilderness. By the 1880s many in the west were fed up with gun violence. Gun control, they contended, was absolutely essential, and the remedy advocated usually was usually no less than a total ban on pistol-packing. The editor of the Black Hills Daily Times of Dakota Territory in 1884, called the idea of carrying firearms into the city a “dangerous practice,” not only to others, but to the packer himself. He emphasized his point with the headline, "Perforated by His Own Pistol." The editor of the Montana’s Yellowstone Journal acknowledged four years earlier that Americans have "the right to bear arms," but he contended that guns have to be regulated. As for cowboys carrying pistols, a dispatch from Laramie’s Northwest Stock Journal in 1884, reported, "We see many cowboys fitting up for the spring and summer work. They all seem to think it absolutely necessary to have a revolver. Of all foolish notions this is the most absurd."

www.ndsu.edu...

Why are Americans all freaking about about not being able to kill each other at will? Bizarre. I mean, little girls selling cookies can be annoying when they interrupt your football viewing, and blowing them away is a permanent solution, it's true, but there's something else that I wonder about.....

Why do you not feel this same rage and fury over your lost freedoms due to the existence and continued enforcement of the Patriot Act? Wouldn't you be a LOT better off getting that repealed in its entirety before worrying about keeping guns at hand while you shower or do your grocery shopping? Shouldn't first things - the important things - come first?

Get back some semblance of freedom. You're painting yourselves into a corner with fear.

Well, for some actual gun owners, this might be true...

But I do not own a gun. Yet I still believe in the right to bear arms.

It may be hard for you to believe, but I REALLY DO NOT trust the all the thousands of people in my government ENOUGH to feel comfortable having them, and criminals, be the only ones with guns. Or good guns. A great many people throughout history have spoken of the importance or significance of the power of an armed population, and I believe them to be correct, and I do not think that times have changed in that respect.

But I guess I must just LOVE the POWER of knowing I could walk down to the gun store, take the safety course, wait the 5 day or whatever waiting period, and THEN go and take someone's LIFE with a GUN!! Yes you're so right, I love that so much! Lol!

Or since there is no waiting period on shotguns or rifles, maybe I just LOVE knowing that I can buy a big gun and go on a rampage where everyone can see me... Wait, I'm starting to get a little confused now... What is it that I love again? Since you have the ability to tell me that...

No I've never owned a gun, probably never will, unless I move to a more rural area for some reason. There's not as many cops patrolling in a mountain, also there are dangerous animals.

But I do feel better knowing there are millions of other armed Americans. I don't feel like anyone would be safer if guns were illegal. Because then, as my grandpappy used to tell me: "If you outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns." Cops too, but again, I do not trust the people in control of hiring and training our police forces enough to feel comfortable having these same forces be the only people allowed to own and carry firearms.

Yes, there are a bunch of citizens I don't trust with firearms, but that fact will never negate the formerly stated fact of my distrust of some people in government now or who may come in the future to use these laws to unjust means. It's nothing about this particular administration or anything, its just human nature I do not trust. That is why I say, even if this government does not use gun laws to oppress us all, who's to say that it won't happen in the next 10-20 years.

Who's that president gonna be 15 years from now? I don't know him. Do you know him? How do you know if we can trust him, or her? I mean, I'm sure he's a stellar guy and all, being president and whatnot, but what if he's surrounded by bad people? Or what if the senate and house push through all his vetoes? See what I'm saying? There are too many wildcards there once you take our guns away. It would just be TOO EASY for someone, somewhere, to take advantage of this situation.

Don't forget about foreign threats! We need that gun barrel poking out from behind every blade of grass! And let's say some terrorist plans to blow up a building? You'll be glad when Joe Blow American pulls out his .357 magnum handcannon and knocks his block off! It has happened! Massacres have been avoided, so where would we be if guns were outlawed? There would be even more deaths. You can still get a gun in the UK, on the black market. It will be no different here. Maybe even easier, given the proclivities of our citizenry.

Reply to post by 3n19m470

Hmmmm you are uncomfortable with the general populace having limited access to guns because the police might go crazy or the government might become too oppressive....that whole argument is a cop out. Firstly there are already out of control police, how many have protected themselves against them with guns? Do you really believe someone could pull a gun on a police officer and live to tell the story?

If the government wanted absolute rule arms would so nothing. They have more advanced guns not to mention tanks, chemicals, missiles, trained killers, etc. The time to fight for freedom with guns went out with the musket. We here in the 21st century fight with information. You want the guise of power with a gun like the OP said...grow up.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

This is what the OP wants me to do when a criminal breaks into my home.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by randomtangentsrme

 

Do you think you can overwhelm the government with your guns?

your gun against RPG and Grenade launchers? or better yet attack drones?

Yes we can. It will much worse here than when our soldiers fight in Iraq against citizens with guns.

1.) The military will be fighting their OWN people. Many of them will be losing their very own family members. Many of them will not do it.

2.) We have trained militias, veterans.

3.) We know all about our own infrastructures.

Oh, and to answer your opening post OP, yes, I do feel powerful when I have my gun in my hand. So what? Maybe that is the reason some people want a gun. Who cares?

I also like my guns for hunting. Makes it much easier than my bow and arrows. I also like to shoot targets for recreation. Many people like shooting as a hobby. And yes, they probably feel powerful when they do it. Get over it.

Knowledge is power also, and I'm not trading that for no amount of money. Guns are a form of power, well of course since my trigger finger decides if you live or die. Now, of course I'm not willing to give my power away to a corrupted government (enemy) since I am its enemy also. Disarm your enemy, and you win. Makes sense?

Originally posted by michael1983l

Originally posted by Dustytoad
reply to post by michael1983l

 

The power to take ones life should not belong solely to Governments and Gangsters..

I don't own a gun, but I am a major supporter of the second amendment.. People should fear for their lives if they try to force themselves on others..

Governments are not better than their people. This is an outdated European view point.

Right so we are getting somewhere here. Are you now admiting that owning a gun is more about the power it brings?

You're damn right. The power to protect me or mine in case some scumbag has a firearm with nefarious intent. If you prefer to be sitting duck, be my guest.

Here's a pretty good idea I think. Those that want our guns taken from us, let them come to our homes and take them themselves.