New Report on the Phoenix Lights by a First-Hand Witness

reply to post by spiritualarchitect


The full one is actually Russian, but yes I've gone through the thread and to the OP, thanks for bringing this information to light.

I remember seeing the reports up here (of course the flares) and it was one of the cases along with the Heaven's Gate cult incident that got me into UFOs and aliens.

FrznPhoenix and mikefortson, thank you for sharing your experiences, I'm sure it was quite the sight.

Why do you believe than anything would be revealed this April? It is what.. 16th anniversary and is not a round one, not a round year, sounds to me like a guess of type - 'Aliens will land at the Olympics in 2012'. Nothing will be revealed any time soon, unless today's events go in such direction.

This has been the most fascinating thread I have read in a while. Thank you all for sharing your experiences, I have learned so much that I had no clue about before. Lots of people lean towards the secret military aircraft explanation but it doesn't make sense to me why they would do it in such a populated area. And most witnesses say the sheer size of the object dwarfs all known aircraft. So that just leaves one option for me, however incredible it may sound: This thing was not one of ours.

@MikeFortson, you also mentioned something about witnesses communicating and seeing beings in portals. What exactly do you mean by portals and who were these witnesses? Have any of them come forward explaining what they saw?

reply to post by LeLeu


You are giving the military too much credit. Stealth was only somewhat of a secret for a few years. But it was known about, they even sold models, but never actually filmed it. Kind of like the Aurora. It is not a secret, but which model is the true shape?

Your are talking about a craft that is 1,500 feet long that can fly at 5MPH and then take off so fast as to disappear. The stealth fighter and bomber are infantile compared to the V craft.

How about the Battle of Los Angeles in 1942. People saw up to 25 silvery UFO’s over the city that night. One of them, either having trouble or playing Guinea Pig to test air defenses, hung in the air for an extended length of time. Balloons and dirigibles are among the easiest things in the air to destroy, so we can count that out because not only did the UFO change directions and go against the wind, but this UFO was fired upon over and over and took multiple hits while over the city. Unlike a balloon which would have been shredded, none of the hits brought it down. In fact it came back again to offer more target practice. So here we have an aircraft that can withstand antiaircraft fire and fly slow enough to take all the recon photos one could want and maybe the option to deliver pin point bombing.

Or how about Mount Rainer, 1947, where nine flying saucers were clocked doing 1,800 miles an hour. Even at Arnold’s toned down 1,200 mph that is still much faster than anything the US had flying at the time.

If these were American secret aircraft, what happened to them? If you look at saucer sightings from the 40’s you will find saucer technology that can hover in place and take off at terrific speeds, all without making much of a sound.

Have you seen a car from the 1940’s? Do you realize how old, slow and ungainly they look compared to what is driven today? Where are these military aircraft that could hover silently as well as travel at a thousand miles an hour? Where are they today? What museum are they in? What are their names and numbers? Where are the missing hot shot pilots who flew them?

Or have these saucers been updated like the B52? Would the military really put tons of money into updating a design from the 1940’s? If so, why does the military fly junk like the Nighthawk and B2 when in the 40’s they were flying saucers that were much superior to both? Why spend millions of dollars to fly a stealth fighter when a 40’s saucer could fly circles around it?

Neither the Nighthawk, the Blackbird, or the U2 have UFO flight characteristics and cannot account for UFO sightings. But like the Aurora [named after the 1897 UFO crash], the US military does have secret aircraft, but all of these aircraft are alien tech, taken from the saucer crashes of the 40’s, 50’s and 60’s. Those saucers seen flying in the skies 70 years ago were being flown by beings from another planet.

Secret military craft are not responsible for sightings such as saucers, cigars and triangles.

reply to post by charlyv


I agree. For this to happen it had to be done intentionally. Like,
"We are going to come out and in the open unless you military people give us what we want."


A situation like,
A Visitors first trip to Earth flyby
does not make sense in that since their are aliens here already, [maybe several types from several places] that some kind of operations code would be in place. An alien set of rules of conduct on visiting planets where other species have already set up shop.

Like the Dutch visiting Cuba in the early 1500's, there would be some kind of gudelines about what not to do to piss the Spanish, French, English and Portugues off.

reply to post by mikefortson


"amnesia effects".
Just an "out there" thought, but we have radio waves, someone in one location can talk and we can all hear him.

The Greys are said to be able to use telepathy. Maybe there is a way they can send thought waves out which cause a sort of telepathic message which smooths the mind. Like a silent loudspeaker telling everyone to remain calm.

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by mikefortson

 

"amnesia effects".
Just an "out there" thought, but we have radio waves, someone in one location can talk and we can all hear him.

The Greys are said to be able to use telepathy. Maybe there is a way they can send thought waves out which cause a sort of telepathic message which smooths the mind. Like a silent loudspeaker telling everyone to remain calm.

Anywhere else mate, your "out there" thought would have people calling you crazy, but here and on this subject, I wouldn't rule your "out there" thought out

So many possibilities when discussing this.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum


Thanks. Just seeking a solution. Looks like I can't tell Russian from Spanish though.

Originally posted by Zcustosmorum

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by mikefortson

 

"amnesia effects".
Just an "out there" thought, but we have radio waves, someone in one location can talk and we can all hear him.

The Greys are said to be able to use telepathy. Maybe there is a way they can send thought waves out which cause a sort of telepathic message which smooths the mind. Like a silent loudspeaker telling everyone to remain calm.

Anywhere else mate, your "out there" thought would have people calling you crazy, but here and on this subject, I wouldn't rule your "out there" thought out

So many possibilities when discussing this.

If you want an example of "out there" or strange weirdness for witnesses, see what I wrote triggered by the 10th anniversary mysite.verizon.net...

reply to post by spiritualarchitect


That is good speculation and, based on current knowledge, it could be plausible that telepathy is used - if there are aliens present in these different events.

I also consider the idea that maybe they aren't using telepathy to implany messages, but, instead, certain thought patterns are blocked. This may be able to induce temporary amnesia, without scaring the person who is the target.

Realizing I had repeatedly forgotten important memories would really freak me out, yet those who experience this type of amnesia do not seem to be overly concerned or alarmed about the forgotten memories. Maybe they are left feeling like it was a very simple mistake, when, any other time, there would be cause for great concern.

Originally posted by TheReclaimer
This has been the most fascinating thread I have read in a while. Thank you all for sharing your experiences, I have learned so much that I had no clue about before. Lots of people lean towards the secret military aircraft explanation but it doesn't make sense to me why they would do it in such a populated area. And most witnesses say the sheer size of the object dwarfs all known aircraft. So that just leaves one option for me, however incredible it may sound: This thing was not one of ours.

@MikeFortson, you also mentioned something about witnesses communicating and seeing beings in portals. What exactly do you mean by portals and who were these witnesses? Have any of them come forward explaining what they saw?

The first witness to make the claim of seeing "beings" in the rear portals of the 2 mile wide triangle was Shala Saracen. She and her husband Max had 2 sightings that night. Their drawing is in UFO Magzine Volume 15 March 2000. They both came forward in March 1997. Their reports have been written about several times. This one producers refuse to put in documentaries. It is in William Hamilton's book, "The Phoenix Lights Mystery". She claimed as the low, slow moving 2 mile-wide triangle passed over their heads she saw movement thru the rear portals of what she claimed as "beings".

They are not the only ones. MUFONAZ investigator Richard Motzer in his reports and notes has told researcher Frank Warren of several others who saw "beings" looking thru portals of low, slow moving craft on March 13, 1997.

Again, you will not read or see this evidense in local media outlets.

I met Max and Shala during a filming in August of 1997. They both are credible witnesses according to everyone who spent time discussing this with them.

I have contacted Frank Warren and asked him to jump in here and help clarify your question.

Yes, beings were seen by several witnesses on March 13, 1997, during "The Massive UFO Flyover of Arizona, March 13, 1997".

Originally posted by esteay812

Originally posted by saturnsrings

Originally posted by Snoopie
This is a story that has interested me since i very first read about it, I also saw it in a documentary and not one person they interviewed said planes in formation or flares.

I just really want to know what it was now

Same goes for me. I still have the newspaper (USA Today I believe), with the story.

This subject (UFO's) has been a favorite of mine for more than two decades, and in particular, the Phoenix lights.

I'll keep this thread in mind for later perusal, after I finish reading the rest of the responses that are here now.

That is awesome! I am sure we can search online and find an image of the newspaper with that report in it. Is there anyway you would consider scanning it and posting it in the thread?

If not, can you let us know the date on your paper and the name of the newspaper too. I'll see if I can find it online and post it here for others to have a look at.

This is the picture that I remember from back then on, I believe the front page of the USA Today. It would seem that the artists impression was published about 3 months later.

en.wikipedia.org...

Mods, if this is not the correct way to post this, please fell free to correct. I'm not exactly sure how to post it. The picture is in the wiki page.

At any rate, I do have the copy, but it's somewhere in my storage locker, as we don't have a lot of storage space for all of our belongings. Well, that and I doubt I could scan and post the page, even if it was in front of me. Not all that great with computers.

i really want to believe this one... but too much points to flares. the fact that people saw different sized object. the fact that it was silent, how it just disappeared. wish there were something more definitive to go on with this.

from “People don’t like to know what the boring answer would be,” said Stanley, now 30 and a computer technician. “People like to know fantasy stuff. People like to think there could be things out there, I guess.”

For a while, Stanley would attend meetings of people who saw the Phoenix Lights.

He wasn’t popular.

“No one paid attention to me. They just didn’t care,” he said. “They completely dismissed (his sighting). No one asked me a question.”

Stanley’s story just wasn’t as interesting as those who thought the objects were mysterious craft. Some stories had the objects flying silently and close to the ground. Another had the craft suddenly turning translucent as it passed.

“It was pretty weird,” Stanley said, “I met a whole bunch of weird people with (a) bunch of strange ideas of what they were.”

Complicating matters was the fact that, initially, people were talking about two separate events.

Thousands saw a giant formation of lights move north to south across the city sometime around 8 p.m.

Almost no one saw the mysterious orbs that floated in the sky west of Phoenix around 10 p.m. But a few people captured those lights on videotape, and television news played them extensively.

Those lights came to represent the Phoenix Lights.

It was later discovered that pilots training at the Barry M. Goldwater Range west of Phoenix had dropped an unusual amount of flares that night.

Again, that would have been the simple explanation. But by then, it was too late.

“People believe what they want to believe,” Stanley said.

That belief has been turned into dollars.

There have been books, T-shirts and a documentary that was briefly shown at a movie theater.

Stanley was at a bookstore recently and saw a book that purported to tell the story of the Phoenix Lights. But it left out the best eyewitness.

“I skimmed through it and said, ‘My name’s not in here,’ ” Stanley said. “I know where this book is going.”

Stanley still has the telescope he used to see the supposedly mysterious formation over Phoenix. But he doesn’t use it much anymore.

“It’s hard to see anything in the city here,” he said, “other than planes.”

www.skeptic.com...

Originally posted by tonybotzo
from “People don’t like to know what the boring answer would be,” said Stanley, now 30 and a computer technician. “People like to know fantasy stuff. People like to think there could be things out there, I guess.”

For a while, Stanley would attend meetings of people who saw the Phoenix Lights.

He wasn’t popular.

“No one paid attention to me. They just didn’t care,” he said. “They completely dismissed (his sighting). No one asked me a question.”

Stanley’s story just wasn’t as interesting as those who thought the objects were mysterious craft. Some stories had the objects flying silently and close to the ground. Another had the craft suddenly turning translucent as it passed.

“It was pretty weird,” Stanley said, “I met a whole bunch of weird people with (a) bunch of strange ideas of what they were.”

Complicating matters was the fact that, initially, people were talking about two separate events.

Thousands saw a giant formation of lights move north to south across the city sometime around 8 p.m.

Almost no one saw the mysterious orbs that floated in the sky west of Phoenix around 10 p.m. But a few people captured those lights on videotape, and television news played them extensively.

Those lights came to represent the Phoenix Lights.

It was later discovered that pilots training at the Barry M. Goldwater Range west of Phoenix had dropped an unusual amount of flares that night.

Again, that would have been the simple explanation. But by then, it was too late.

“People believe what they want to believe,” Stanley said.

That belief has been turned into dollars.

There have been books, T-shirts and a documentary that was briefly shown at a movie theater.

Stanley was at a bookstore recently and saw a book that purported to tell the story of the Phoenix Lights. But it left out the best eyewitness.

“I skimmed through it and said, ‘My name’s not in here,’ ” Stanley said. “I know where this book is going.”

Stanley still has the telescope he used to see the supposedly mysterious formation over Phoenix. But he doesn’t use it much anymore.

“It’s hard to see anything in the city here,” he said, “other than planes.”

www.skeptic.com...

Mitch Stanlry's own word's about using his 10" Dobsonian telescope on the night of March 13, 1997 has issues with other pilots who showed up that night Discovery was filming in August 1997. Mitch claimed he saw high flying wing tip to wing tip planes he saw thru his telescope. He claimed he saw them for just a few seconds, and "no big deal" he said he told his mother. Pilots clain NO pilot would do such a thing. Flying wing tip to wing tip would be far too dangerous.

I wrote in "The Non-Investigation Of the Phoenix Lights" that I agreed with young Mitch that there probably were high flying aircraft that night, but more than likely they would be military aircraft watching the slow moving V shaped craft below. All witnesses claim the V shape anf triangular shaped craft were incredibly low to the surface. And one wouldn't need binoculars, little lone a telescope.

In my opinion Mitch created his own problem with people believing him. While discussing his telescope he was firm and made eye contact. When answering questions about the plane formation or why he only looked for a few seconds, he looked down, no eye contact and would put hands in pockets. Clearly he had trouble answering questions from pilot Trig Johnston. I understand he was only 19 at the time, but facts are facts. To each his own.

I believe Mitch saw military aircraft flying high above Phoenix on March 13, 1997, However, he did not see the massive craft seen by thousands in Arizona in the 8 o'clock hour. Again, no one every has said, "I wish I had my telescope so I could have seen it better." No one.

Mitch grouped himself with the likes of Tony Ortega (Phoenix New Times) and Richard Ruellas (Arizona Republic) both associated with debunking attempts and terrible attacks on witnesses and a former Phoenix city councilwoman Frances Emma Barwood.

reply to post by tonybotzo


I was there. Questions were ask of Mitch Stanley. This was at Village Labs in Tempe, AZ., in August of 1997. He just had problems with the questions put to him by pilots in attendance that wing tip to wing tip would not be attepted at night because of the danger of such a formation.

reply to post by tonybotzo


There are plenty of links disputing the “flare” BS.
Were flares seen flying across the state at multiple times ranging from 5:30pm to 2am?
How about this one, taken 2 months before. Look at this from the 4:15 to 4:40 mark, do flares do this?


www.youtube.com...

Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by tonybotzo

 

There are plenty of links disputing the “flare” BS.
Were flares seen flying across the state at multiple times ranging from 5:30pm to 2am?
How about this one, taken 2 months before. Look at this from the 4:15 to 4:40 mark, do flares do this?


www.youtube.com...

edit on 14-1-2013 by spiritualarchitect because: (no reason given)

edit on 14-1-2013 by spiritualarchitect because: Time marks

Why go back 2 months when you can go back to the night before.

reply to post by mikefortson


I think Stanley may have seen airplanes and maybe over-embellished their flight relation to each other. He is probably confident about his 'sighting', as are those who claim to have seen the massive craft, flying low to the ground that evening.

I guess it's possible that each group wants to stand their ground and maintain the story of what they witnessed that night. Thay may have felt like they knew the opposition was lying, because their claims were in contradiction to each other.

Also, it may be possible that Stanley would not concede the possibility that the planes he saw were deployed to survey the giant triangle craft that had been reported on a large scale that evening.

That could work both ways though..,

Maybe some of the eye-witnesses of the triangle would not concede the airplanes were in the sky, because that might raise the question of whether they were mistaken in their sighting - when they knew they weren't.

I'm really just speculating, but common sense dictates that our air-guardsmen would have been launched into the region to monitor the giant craft and engage is neccassary. Personally, I would be surprised to learn that no military craft were spotted by, at least, a few people that night...

On a side note;

I have been thinking about it and I've decided to design a grappling hook that I'll carry with me everywhere I go, from now on...

This way, whenever I come across a low-flying UFO, I can launched my grappling system and anchor them down... or be towed behind them to their destination. Imagine, 'Gulliver's Travels', the scene where the little people were launching the tie-down ropes across him

If, for some odd reason, my grappling mechanism doesn't pan out, I've also begun to develop a high-intensity, low-range EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse)... maybe I can bring down one of these mile long 'mother-ships'! yeah right...

*Disclaimer - for anyone who thinks I would really attempt to capture or destroy a UFO, I wouldn't! My luck it would be a top-secret 'Airforce 3' and I'd be on trial for attempting to capture the POTUS... Just a little humor




reply to post by spiritualarchitect


Hi spiritualarchitect!

I am embedding the video here for you, so those who see it don't have to exit the ATS thread window:

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by mikefortson

 

I think Stanley may have seen airplanes and maybe over-embellished their flight relation to each other. He is probably confident about his 'sighting', as are those who claim to have seen the massive craft, flying low to the ground that evening.

I guess it's possible that each group wants to stand their ground and maintain the story of what they witnessed that night. Thay may have felt like they knew the opposition was lying, because their claims were in contradiction to each other.

Also, it may be possible that Stanley would not concede the possibility that the planes he saw were deployed to survey the giant triangle craft that had been reported on a large scale that evening.

That could work both ways though..,

Maybe some of the eye-witnesses of the triangle would not concede the airplanes were in the sky, because that might raise the question of whether they were mistaken in their sighting - when they knew they weren't.

I'm really just speculating, but common sense dictates that our air-guardsmen would have been launched into the region to monitor the giant craft and engage is neccassary. Personally, I would be surprised to learn that no military craft were spotted by, at least, a few people that night...

On a side note;

I have been thinking about it and I've decided to design a grappling hook that I'll carry with me everywhere I go, from now on...

This way, whenever I come across a low-flying UFO, I can launched my grappling system and anchor them down... or be towed behind them to their destination. Imagine, 'Gulliver's Travels', the scene where the little people were launching the tie-down ropes across him

If, for some odd reason, my grappling mechanism doesn't pan out, I've also begun to develop a high-intensity, low-range EMP (Electro-Magnetic Pulse)... maybe I can bring down one of these mile long 'mother-ships'!

yeah right...

*Disclaimer - for anyone who thinks I would really attempt to capture or destroy a UFO, I wouldn't! My luck it would be a top-secret 'Airforce 3' and I'd be on trial for attempting to capture the POTUS... Just a little humor



reply to post by spiritualarchitect

 

Hi spiritualarchitect!

I am embedding the video here for you, so those who see it don't have to exit the ATS thread window:

Hi - there are a few inaccuracies in that clip. Here is the original Discovery Channel Documentary that was produced shortly after the sightings in 1997.