New Report on the Phoenix Lights by a First-Hand Witness

reply to post by FrznFenix


There is a great doc from Nat Geo of all people [being as they are an anti UFO company] that I can only find in Spanish. But it has been shown in English several times on TV. If you get a chance to view the whole 44 minute program, do so. They basically explain how the flying V could not have been man made.

natgeotv.com...

www.youtube.com...

Dr Bruce Maccabee came to Phoenix in late 1997. His report states that the distant lights (flares) seen and videotaped (6) from mountainside homes had to be ignited at app. 17,000' altitude in order to be seen some 50-65 miles away.

Standard operation proceedures for an A10 dropping a LUU2 flares is 6,000' drop, 3000' ignition, and extinguishes at 500'.

This to me was an intentional, diversionary flare drop to draw attention away from the massive V shaped craft seen in the 8 o'clock hour.

One of the closest people shooting video at app 10 pm was Tom King. Who was with MUFON investigator Bill Hamilton. They were at Steve Blonder's home in south Phoenix near South mountain. They all thought what they were seeing was a ufo event. However, Tom King claimed months later the 10 pm sighting they saw was flares.

The 10 pm videos are distant lights at best and more than likely a diversion from the 8 o'clock events which are "unknowns". Even Luke AFB claimed in a FOIA, were "unusual aerial objects"

reply to post by mikefortson


I imagine it would be quite a task for a recreation to be made by the private sector. The government should be able to reproduce the results, if they are responsible.

If nothing else, we should see many different videos of excess flares being deployed by military aircraft in exercise over heavily populated cities. Surely this wouldn't be the only time they were required to deploy their remaining load before completing the exercise.

I believe there are videos of flares being deployed, but firing them over a large, heavily populated area, doesn't seem like something that would be within the confines of public safety protocols. This makes me even more suspicious that the flares were intentionally dropped over Phoenix, a few hours after initial reports, to form the foundation of their official cover story.

Even if they can recreate the flare drop, it still doesn't explain why they were dropped so close to a large city or what was being seen a few hours earlier.

It seems, if everything were to be explained as flares, there would be records of several other flare drops, in several other locations, preceding the flares captured in the video - and there would probably be video of those flare drops too...

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by mikefortson

 

I imagine it would be quite a task for a recreation to be made by the private sector. The government should be able to reproduce the results, if they are responsible.

If nothing else, we should see many different videos of excess flares being deployed by military aircraft in exercise over heavily populated cities. Surely this wouldn't be the only time they were required to deploy their remaining load before completing the exercise.

I believe there are videos of flares being deployed, but firing them over a large, heavily populated area, doesn't seem like something that would be within the confines of public safety protocols. This makes me even more suspicious that the flares were intentionally dropped over Phoenix, a few hours after initial reports, to form the foundation of their official cover story.

Even if they can recreate the flare drop, it still doesn't explain why they were dropped so close to a large city or what was being seen a few hours earlier.

It seems, if everything were to be explained as flares, there would be records of several other flare drops, in several other locations, preceding the flares captured in the video - and there would probably be video of those flare drops too...

The flares were never dropped over Phoenix. Ever. Nor near a populated area. Never.

Those lights (flares) are 50-65 miles away and at app 17,000' altitude. That's the confusion. There were never flares over Phoenix. The reason the name "Phoenix Lights" was given is that all the videos have the lights of Phoenix in the bottom of the frame....those lights (flares) are very far off in the south/southwest. Find Dr Bruce Maccabee's report at theufochronicles.com

reply to post by mikefortson


Ah-ha!

Yes, I see. I was going by what the video seems to depict. Even in some of the video breakdowns, I don't recall a distance ever offered. Just going by what it looks like on film, it seems it would only be on the outskirts of the town, instead of dozens of miles away.

Even so, if this were a scheduled practice, wouldn't there be other practice scenarios in the same area, similar to what is found in the flare video?

I don't mean to seem as if I am disputing the flare video at all, I am just suspicious of why the flares were dropped at that time. I mentioned the idea that the flares were deployed after sighting reports began a few hours prior. I tend to think those flares were dropped as a diversion and foundation for the 'Official Story'

Then again, I am no expert and have only learned most of the details from talking to you guys here. It just seems to make the most sense to me, given what I have learned so far.

I am very happy this thread was started. The 16th anniversary is fast approaching and there is so much confusion about the multiple events that occured on March 13, 1997 between the hours of 5:30 pm and 2 am March 14.

As for the constant gripe about the lack of video or pictures....please in your mind go back to available camera technology in 1997. Filming video at night without the 0 LUX factor in cameras was difficult at best. Same goes for 35mm cameras. Also, in 1997, did you have a cell phone? I am almost certain even the newest model cells did not yet have camera technology. I do have a grainy video (terrible quality) copy shot by Terry Procter. The video is not timed or dated. It is not a quality video.

Speaking for myself, my wife and hundreds of witnesses I have met....getting a camera was not on our minds. Losing valuable observation time was most important. Think about it....where's the camera? are the batteries charged? is there film in it? are you recording over your daughter's wedding?

I am at peace staying with our sighting. It was of an object that we have been told all our lives, "does not exist". It was the only time in my life that I was watching something pass in front of me where I was telling myself not to blink.

The Bradley Evans family was driving north on I-10 from Tucson to Tempe. 5 passengers driving app 65-70 mph. Camera equipment in backseat with 2 daughters and friend. As the array of red lights approached their car from the north..."when the craft was over their car, the object reversed itself and was now traveling north equal in speed to their car...backwards! Mrs Evens was told..."do not stop...keep on driving...this does not concern you". The object according to the family (5 page report) stayed above them for app. 20 minutes. NO ONE THOUGHT OF TAKING A PICTURE OR SHOOTING VIDEO!!!!!

Multiple witnesses were communicated with and multiple witnesses claimed to have seen "beings" in the portals.

Retired airline captain Trig Johnston claimed the inside area was over a square mile and he could easily land his 737 on the wing of the craft.

Police and fire mountain rescue was doing practice runs north of the Scottsdale/Cave Creek area....at app. 8:25 pm the black massive V shaped craft silently passed overhead. There was a rescue helicopter and pilot present. The pilot refused to go up and check it out.

There is so much more to this case than what you have been told.

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by mikefortson

 

I don't mean to seem as if I am disputing the flare video at all, I am just suspicious of why the flares were dropped at that time. I mentioned the idea that the flares were deployed after sighting reports began a few hours prior. I tend to think those flares were dropped as a diversion and foundation for the 'Official Story'

Then again, I am no expert and have only learned most of the details from talking to you guys here. It just seems to make the most sense to me, given what I have learned so far.

reply to post by mikefortson


reply to post by FrznFenix


So esteay812, this has been a very good thread, thank you for bringing eyewitnesses into the thread to share what they 'actually' saw.
Also, a big thanks to you Mike, I really sense your sincerity and great response.
And to you Fenix, a big thanks for responding to esteays initial e-mail to get this thread going and then to join us on here at ATS and make yourself available. Both you and Mike are to be 'thanked' big time.

NOW, I've been so interested in this topic, have looked over the links, videos, read the news accounts etc., and I am still bewildered as to what was actually seen. Strange formation of lights, various times of the evening, thousands of viewers, government/military responding that they were flares..........we are left we a lot of information, conflicting in some cases, some report 3 lights others 5 lights, so as you can see.....with all of this information, the story can get quite convoluted.

Based upon what we think we know, as of now, 16 years come March 13th. Mike or Fenix, would you care to summarize as succinctly as you can, what happened on March 13th, 1997?

Thank you very much for the effort of this thread, all the contributions and willingness to respond. I don't think we have a 'magic bullet' or a 'smoking gun' as analogies, but would like to sum up from the two eye-witnesses, what it is that they believe happened 16 years ago. Much appreciation, Cheers!!

ID

Originally posted by ItDepends

Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by mikefortson

 

I don't mean to seem as if I am disputing the flare video at all, I am just suspicious of why the flares were dropped at that time. I mentioned the idea that the flares were deployed after sighting reports began a few hours prior. I tend to think those flares were dropped as a diversion and foundation for the 'Official Story'

Then again, I am no expert and have only learned most of the details from talking to you guys here. It just seems to make the most sense to me, given what I have learned so far.

reply to post by mikefortson

 

There is no easy way to summarize the events of March 13, 1997.

It begins with a "first time photo" of a distant Gamma-Ray burst. (Scientific American July 1997) that claimed that "inside the bright point of light, was a distant background object".

MSTI-3 satellite was disabled, It's mission was to photograph incoming missles and objects from space.

5:30 pm Crown King, AZ. 16 witnesses at rest stop at Sunset Point claimed they watched 3 massive V shaped craft. As 2 fighter jets approached from the south...the 3 V's pancaked on top of each other, formed a white ball of light, and vanished.

Beginning at app 8:16 thru 9:45 pm thousands of people throughout Arizona witnesses reported, 5-7 red/white/amber lights, orbs, massive V shaped craft, a 2 mile wide triangle, and a 1 mile wide disk. Multiple witnesses claimed seeing "beings" thru the portals. Some witnesses saw the red orbs attached to the craft "seperate" and go off on their own.

App. 10 pm south/southwest of Phoenix- high altitude diversionary flare drop with ignition at app 17,000' altitude.

10:20 pm north Scottsdale massive V shaped craft seen by retired airline captain Trig Johnston and his son.

10:35 downtown Phoenix...workers on top of the Bank One tower claimed they had to "duck" as massive V shaped craft passed overhead.

2 am 3/;14 Key Biscaine Fla. President Clinton evacuated from golfer Greg Norman's home in early hours...claiming Clinton hurt his knee and needed to return to DC.

That's a start. Dozens of pages of witness testimony from all over the state. Many more objects than one.

reply to post by FrznFenix


So esteay812, this has been a very good thread, thank you for bringing eyewitnesses into the thread to share what they 'actually' saw.
Also, a big thanks to you Mike, I really sense your sincerity and great response.
And to you Fenix, a big thanks for responding to esteays initial e-mail to get this thread going and then to join us on here at ATS and make yourself available. Both you and Mike are to be 'thanked' big time.

NOW, I've been so interested in this topic, have looked over the links, videos, read the news accounts etc., and I am still bewildered as to what was actually seen. Strange formation of lights, various times of the evening, thousands of viewers, government/military responding that they were flares..........we are left we a lot of information, conflicting in some cases, some report 3 lights others 5 lights, so as you can see.....with all of this information, the story can get quite convoluted.

Based upon what we think we know, as of now, 16 years come March 13th. Mike or Fenix, would you care to summarize as succinctly as you can, what happened on March 13th, 1997?

Thank you very much for the effort of this thread, all the contributions and willingness to respond. I don't think we have a 'magic bullet' or a 'smoking gun' as analogies, but would like to sum up from the two eye-witnesses, what it is that they believe happened 16 years ago. Much appreciation, Cheers!!

ID

reply to post by mikefortson


Very good post Mike!

I think you revealed more in that single post than I learned in the past 15 years!

I remember 1997 well, I was a high school senor then. I remember just a 2-3 years earlier, one of our football coaches got himself a new mobile phone.

It was very new and was carried around in a brief case! I don't think it had a camera on it,

Night vision was not a common feature in home recording technology. So, even if the event was filmed, chances are, it wouldn't be very good quality - if it picked up anything at all.

Seeing something like this can have a dramatic impact on someone's life. It is a paradigm shifting realization and some people just can't handle the implication of 'what could be'.

I witnessed a massive UFO in the 90's, with my mom. It's burned into my memory, I have no chance of ever forgetting about it. I have no explanation for it, but that doesn't mean it's ET based - which I think is a strong probability. It was a massive 3D rectangle.

I've often wondered if there is some sort of reason why people don't go out of their way to get a camera for something like this - it does seem like the most obvious thing to do. My Mom and I went home, planning to tell my brother and Dad about it. We talked about it on the car and couldn't figure it out. We made it home and, for some reason, neither of us mentioned it to my Dad or borther... it was wierd...

It wasn't lost from our memory, as we talked about it with each other through the years, even the next several days after the sighting. When we got home, we started talking to my Dad and brother about other stuff and telling them what we saw seemed to slip our minds - though it was incredible, it didn't seem odd to us that we forgot to tell them.

I am not certain how long it was before we actually talked to them, or anyone else, about it, but it was at least1 year. Telling them a year later did nothing, since they didn't believe we would see something like that and not say anything for such a long time.

That makes me curious if there is some reason why people may not grab a camera or report a sighting right away. I guess there is no way to answer that, but it sure would be nice to know.

I wonder if there are any witnesses of the Phoenix Lights, some who may have images or video, who have yet to tell anyone outside of those who may have witnessed it with them. Maybe not, but that would be awesome to discover!

I do hope you will continue adding information to the thread that the average person may be unaware of or may find very interesting.

reply to post by ItDepends


I am glad you are enjoying the thread. I really didn't know it would get this much attention and it may very well not have, if it weren't for Fenix, Mike, and the other members, like you, who have asked the right questions with a good attitude.

After authoring this thread, I have gotten a few mails from members who have been witness to the Phoenix Lights, but have yet to talk about it here. Hopefully they will come in here to and we can add another dimension to this discussion.

I think we will see them here shortly, since they were using good manners, asking if it would be OK to tell their story here - they don't want it to seem like they are hi-jacking the thread. I don't have a problem with it, actually the opposite... I think we would all like to hear them too.



reply to post by mikefortson


Wow again Mike!

Your most recent post was very good too. I didn't know about much of that.... I guess you can tell, by now, I didn't know much of the details at all - just that the event was said to be military flares, but actual witnesses strongly denied that story, claiming they saw a real object in the sly, not flares.

All this information you are giving is incredible!

Do you have a link where some of these angles are written or talked about in more depth? I'd love to see a compilation of the eye-witness claims.

I have reason to believe the Phoenix lights are a military event. Let me explain. 6 months before the Phoenix lights event, I stumbled upon a chat room at www.cyberzine.com. This sight had numerous, easy to use chat rooms for those on the net. Being new, I frequented several of these chat rooms. After several months of chatting and becoming a "regular"I got to know a gentleman that used the name Longhorn to chat. He said he flew some sort of aircraft or planes for a branch of the military. I thought he was bragging, like most on the Internet do so I paid almost no attention to what he actually said he flew. I want to say he said he was from Maryland or Virginia but again it has been years so I can not be sure.  The night before the Phoenix lights is something I remember very clearly. We were talking and he said "oh that's right your in Arizona, I will be over by you tomorrow night." Assuming he was talking bull I said "oh yeah and how will I really know its you". All he said was "well I can't talk about it but you will know I was there trust me"
I had strange work hours so I did not see this on the news until maybe two nights later. And after I saw it I did not know what to do. Was this military? Who do I tell. Can I get in trouble. Can he get in trouble for having told me. Would someone come after me for telling?  

I never saw him in the chat room again. I often wonder if someone found out he was telling people.

Maybe one of ours, flying one of theirs?

reply to post by OperaPhantom


Thanks for the post and welcome to ATS!

It would be interesting to know a bit more detail what this person was hinting toward. I just can't imagine a pilot of an incredibly hi-tech, super top-secret, cutting edge, state-of-the-art military machine would be in a chat room, telling strangers the name of what they are flying and where their mission is taking them.

That would be some serious breach of security!

I do find it hard to believe, but that doesn't make it impossible... just highly improbable, in my opinion.

Thanks again for your post, I am honored to have your first post come in this thread.



The Following Message is for: All ATS Members Participating in Thread


I just want to let you guys know, I had my butt kicked at work today, so I am gonna be off here for a bit. I'll be back around in a couple hours though and I'll reply to any posts for me when I return.

Originally posted by charlyv

Does anyone know if the photo on the right is an actual photograph, or an artistic conception of the real object that was observed that night in Phoenix ?

According to most of the documentation on the incident, a picture of the actual huge , triangular object was never taken, however this picture shows up in many sites that describe the incident, and also in the research that Dr Lynne Kitel did, along with her book on the subject.

The image on the left is really the flares picture , taken later that night and is not the display that most people that witnessed the event saw.earlier in the evening, after dusk. That picture shows up in every site that discusses Phoenix, and is really not the subject of interest.

The image on the right, clearly shows an angled object, and illustrates more of what people saw and reported. I wonder if it is a real picture. Does anyone have more info here? Thanks

I'm Steve Blonder who Mike has referred to as the closest witness on March 13, 1997. I'd been witnessing the lights since March 10th and had MUFON at my home to record the event on film that evening. I also saw earlier lights that were chased by helicopters as the new witness attests to. I have film of that as well. The photos referred to only reflect the Mike Kryzston sighting (the left one). The right one seems to be some kind of composite since Lynne Kitei only was able to capture 3 lights that evening. You can view my rebuttal to the flare theory, my witness account and the video we captured at www.oracleofthephoenix.com... there are files that can be downloaded that contain all the video sighting coordinates as well as composite day/night imaging that researchers can explore in detail.

Great topic it's keeping me hooked for a while now it's great to have some actual witnesses to slice the story open
many thanks to Fenix and Mike for the information and to esteay812 for starting this topic S&F.

reply to post by mikefortson


Mike, again, thank you very much. I couldn't ask for a better succinct synopsis. Thank you my friend!!

Cheers!! ID

Originally posted by sbjazzman

Originally posted by charlyv

Does anyone know if the photo on the right is an actual photograph, or an artistic conception of the real object that was observed that night in Phoenix ?

According to most of the documentation on the incident, a picture of the actual huge , triangular object was never taken, however this picture shows up in many sites that describe the incident, and also in the research that Dr Lynne Kitel did, along with her book on the subject.

The image on the left is really the flares picture , taken later that night and is not the display that most people that witnessed the event saw.earlier in the evening, after dusk. That picture shows up in every site that discusses Phoenix, and is really not the subject of interest.

The image on the right, clearly shows an angled object, and illustrates more of what people saw and reported. I wonder if it is a real picture. Does anyone have more info here? Thanks

I'm Steve Blonder who Mike has referred to as the closest witness on March 13, 1997. I'd been witnessing the lights since March 10th and has MUFON at my home to record the event on film that evening. I also say earlier lights that were chased by helicopters as the new witness attests to. I have film of that as well. The photos referred to only reflect the Mike Kryzston sighting (the left one). The right one seems to be some kind of composite since Lynne Kitei only was able to capture 3 lights that evening. You can view my rebuttal to the flare theory, my witness account and the video we captured at www.oracleofthephoenix.com... there are files that can be downloaded that contain all the video sighting coordinates as well as composite day/night imaging that researchers can explore in detail.

Hi Steve! Thanks for jumping in. It's been awhile. Maybe a radio show last year? Great to hear from you.

Originally posted by OperaPhantom
I have reason to believe the Phoenix lights are a military event. Let me explain. 6 months before the Phoenix lights event, I stumbled upon a chat room at www.cyberzine.com. This sight had numerous, easy to use chat rooms for those on the net. Being new, I frequented several of these chat rooms. After several months of chatting and becoming a "regular"I got to know a gentleman that used the name Longhorn to chat. He said he flew some sort of aircraft or planes for a branch of the military. I thought he was bragging, like most on the Internet do so I paid almost no attention to what he actually said he flew. I want to say he said he was from Maryland or Virginia but again it has been years so I can not be sure.  The night before the Phoenix lights is something I remember very clearly. We were talking and he said "oh that's right your in Arizona, I will be over by you tomorrow night." Assuming he was talking bull I said "oh yeah and how will I really know its you". All he said was "well I can't talk about it but you will know I was there trust me"
I had strange work hours so I did not see this on the news until maybe two nights later. And after I saw it I did not know what to do. Was this military? Who do I tell. Can I get in trouble. Can he get in trouble for having told me. Would someone come after me for telling?  

I never saw him in the chat room again. I often wonder if someone found out he was telling people.

Maybe one of ours, flying one of theirs?

If we had this mile-long craft technology in 1997, why on Earth would we be messing around with the Shuttle? I agree we have small triangle shaped craft but these unbelievable sized craft? Maybe your guess of one of "ours" being on board with "their" craft might fit. Long shot. I am certain that what we saw was "theirs" and it was some sort of visitation craft. There was no damage. Except MSTI-3's batteries failed. Interesting thought though.

Hi Steve! Thanks for jumping in. It's been awhile. Maybe a radio show last year? Great to hear from you.

Hi Mike - I guess it's Phoenix Lights season again :-)

Originally posted by sbjazzman

Hi Steve! Thanks for jumping in. It's been awhile. Maybe a radio show last year? Great to hear from you.

Hi Mike - I guess it's Phoenix Lights season again :-)



Yes, opportunity with potential new witnesses.

reply to post by mikefortson


So Mike, again, thank you so much for your involvement and participation and insightful firsthand accounts.

I guess I really only have one more question. (I've been here on this thread from the beginning).

What's your gut feeling? Will you, will we ever finally find out what that UFO was on the night of March 13, 1997?

Much regards,
Cheers! ID