New Report on the Phoenix Lights by a First-Hand Witness

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posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:28 PM
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Originally posted by charlyv


Does anyone know if the photo on the right is an actual photograph, or an artistic conception of the real object that was observed that night in Phoenix ?

According to most of the documentation on the incident, a picture of the actual huge , triangular object was never taken, however this picture shows up in many sites that describe the incident, and also in the research that Dr Lynne Kitel did, along with her book on the subject.

The image on the left is really the flares picture , taken later that night and is not the display that most people that witnessed the event saw.earlier in the evening, after dusk. That picture shows up in every site that discusses Phoenix, and is really not the subject of interest.

The image on the right, clearly shows an angled object, and illustrates more of what people saw and reported. I wonder if it is a real picture. Does anyone have more info here? Thanks


The one on the left looks more true to the night sky in question and the lights look like exactly what i saw from williams AFB. The picture on the right reminds me of all the digital renderings online because the object is too low. you can practically see the people inside that store in the photo. The sky was too dark and the image o clear for 1997. But im no expert. I also dont remember it actually being so pointed but i was on he far ends of the city when we saw it.




posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:34 PM
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Originally posted by ItDepends
reply to post by mikefortson
 


Mike, Thanks for coming into this thread and sharing your thoughts


Originally posted by FrznFenix

The sun was already behind the horizon and the sky was nearly blackened. It was surely during the 8 o'clock hour as thats when we usually left my aunts to go back to the base. I am sure Mike or myself could probably reference the almanacs for AZ that day, if he hasn't already.


Thanks to you Fenix for your willingness to come forward and share with us.

It appears that both of you saw something at the earlier time frame 8-8:30pm. That sighting seems to be the one that has baffled most people and is not to be confused with the later sighting at 10ish,, which appears to have been flares.

At this time, Mike or Fenix, can you add or would you be able to maybe recollect any additional information that you may not have already stated prior? As an enthusiast, I guess, I am just searching for any more details from two first hand observers.

It's 2013, 16 years later. What do you believe you saw on that night? Man-made, ET or something else?
Can you give any more details of what the craft looked like, color, estimated size (lenght and width)
How many lights on the craft did you see? How large were they?
Any other markings on the craft that stick out in your mind? Like radar antenna? Windows?
When you saw this object, can you estimate its' speed, how fast it was traveling?
How long did you actually see the object before you could no longer see it? Did you leave to do something else or it just left your view?
Directionof where it was coming from and headed toward?

Really appreciate you taking the time to be here with us. It's rare to have an opportunity to ask questions from 1st hand observers. So thank you very much. I am not asking you to re-hash your stated stories, rather, just search for any other details and especially, what is your sincere feeling as to what you believe you saw that night.

Cheers!
ID


I do remember later during the ride home and still once we got home that there were few helicopters in the air trying to get near it but i dont think they were allowed to do so. the helicopters were flying around at their normal pace which seemed much faster than the object. while the object just kind floated slightly forward. I could not tell you how fast it was going sorry



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by FrznFenix

The one on the left looks more true to the night sky in question and the lights look like exactly what i saw from williams AFB. The picture on the right reminds me of all the digital renderings online because the object is too low. you can practically see the people inside that store in the photo. The sky was too dark and the image o clear for 1997. But im no expert. I also dont remember it actually being so pointed but i was on he far ends of the city when we saw it.


It is safe to say the right one is a concept. You can see that it is in a formation as if seen from an angle almost below it, like couple of meters away from its bottom. No close up has ever been recorded



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:42 PM
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reply to post by FrznFenix
 


Thank you very much for responding and the additional details. That is interesting to hear about the helicopters. Were you able to watch the entire event from when you initially saw the object and then watch it leave? Along with the helicopters?

Regards, ID



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:54 PM
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Originally posted by ItDepends
reply to post by FrznFenix
 


Thank you very much for responding and the additional details. That is interesting to hear about the helicopters. Were you able to watch the entire event from when you initially saw the object and then watch it leave? Along with the helicopters?

Regards, ID


We did leave the spot where we saw it initially but we watched the whole time in the car ride home. The helicopters were either news or police. all we could see was their lights as well but having lived in phoenix and seen all the car chases i knew what they were. Phoenix's freeways serve as emergency flood control during disasters so we were in a 35 foot trench, i dont remember loosing sight of it at all but it is possible we lost sight for a few seconds.
Hope thats what you were asking.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by esteay812
 


OH GREAT! Now you’ve ruined kitty litter for me forever!

That’s right. I leave those little press on lights on at night so my cats can see in their litter boxes. They take 3 AAA batteries each and they do not last long. Now every time I look at them I will be thinking of that UFO!

As for Phoenix, like DC in 52, that was obviously a SIGNAL to somebody in the know. Probably an "air show" preformed at a set time. Definitely intentional and an outright, in your face “don't screw with us or disclosure is going to be upon you now" message. It would be interesting to know what was behind it. Somebody did something to provoke them to come out in the open over large living center like that.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:18 PM
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reply to post by charlyv
 


That second photo on the right might be real.

Residents in Arizona said the giant boomerang came right across their rooftops. I think this was around 8:30. It just missed a telephone pole when it glided between two hill tops. They said the wingtips just fit between the hills, like it was flying as low to the ground as possible at that point. The hill tops were later measured and turned out to be 1,500 feet apart.


"Between 8:00 and 8:30 on the evening of March 13, 1997, during my second term as governor of Arizona, I witnessed something that defied logic and challenged my reality: a massive, delta-shaped craft silently navigated over the Squaw Peak Mountain Preserve in Phoenix, Arizona. A solid structure rather than an apparition, it was dramatically large, with a distinctive leading edge embedded with lights as it traveled the Arizona skies. I still don't know what it was. As a pilot and a former Air Force officer, I can say with certainty that this craft did not resemble any man-made object I had ever seen."

~ Arizona Gov. Fife Symington III

The military said they had no idea what it was. They said they got no calls about it. Phone records and eyeitness reports proved this to be a lie. This despite the fact that 2 pilots said they went up to chase it and got freaked out. Several months later, after a news program about flares, the military came up with the flare excuse, which they claimed happened at 10pm.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:25 PM
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Hello everyone!

I am glad to see the activity in this thread. I think it's always good to learn new information about an older mystery and I hope everyone enjoys what this discussion offersl

I'm just checking in with you beauties and beasts to let you know I haven't, by any means, abandoned this thread. Work is really kicking my butt today so I won't be in this thread for several more hours.

Thank you all for reading the Opening Post and for being active within the thread itself.

See you all after while!



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:39 PM
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reply to post by esteay812
 


The military has had 15 years to drop another set of flares to shut everyone up.
They have not done it.
That should tell you something.
Like they cannot recreate it - so they hope it will go away.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 01:41 PM
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The population of Phoenix should demand the air base to recreate the flare drop this March.


Let's remember, there are a LOT of people who do not think the 10pm sighting was of flares at all. A structured craft flying behind the mountain would disappear in the same way as the flares did. Computer calculations of the lights have ruled out flares too.

Someone here has already posted matching photos of flares and the P lights, and the difference is obv.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by mikefortson
reply to post by FrznFenix
 

FrznFenix....thank you for your reply. There are thousands who have never written about what they saw on March 13, 1997. You and your family are not alone. Hopefully, soon we can share details in emails or in this thread about what was witnessed that night.




Thanks for your continued activity here Mike as-well-as all the other members interacting here. I have already learned several things I didn't know about, related to the Phoenix Lights.

I understand the desire to communicate through e-mail and/or U2U. I just hope you all will continue to discuss it in thread.

I ask this, not so the thread will become popular, but so those of us who are very interested in the event are able to continue the discussion and learn about anything new that comes from the conversations between those here who have witnessed the event in person
.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:32 PM
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reply to post by flexy123
 


Thank you for a dose of skepticism.

However, as mentioned throughout this thread, the object did not only appear above a single city. In fact, it was reported to be seen throughout the path it travelled, covering several states.

I also believe it is mentioned that the lights seen over Phoenix are the flares that stand as the foundation for the official story.

Opposition of the Phoenix Lights, based on a lack of pictures and videos, has also been covered by several posts, earlier in this thread.

Cameras can be found in nearly everyone's pocket or purse today, but back then they were much larger. Most everyone, who owned a camera or camcorder, at the time did not carry a camera & film with them wherever they went.

Also, it is absolutely possible that there are/were images and video taken of the event, but those items have yet to be revealed to the general public. It's possible that they may have been confiscated, as evidence in an ongoing investigations/inquiry, and never released to the original owners.

Edit to add:

I can assure you there is no such place as Bumble-&$%*, TN. I can confirm this, because I live in Tennessee. The people here do actually have access to the same material items that the high-tech city folk are blessed to enjoy.
edit on 10-1-2013 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by esteay812
reply to post by flexy123
 


Thank you for a dose of skepticism.

However, as mentioned throughout this thread, the object did not only appear above a single city. In fact, it was reported to be seen throughout the path it travelled, covering several states.

I also believe it is mentioned that the lights seen over Phoenix are the flares that stand as the foundation for the official story.

Opposition of the Phoenix Lights, based on a lack of pictures and videos, has also been covered by several posts, earlier in this thread.

Cameras can be found in nearly everyone's pocket or purse today, but back then they were much larger. Most everyone, who owned a camera or camcorder, at the time did not carry a camera & film with them wherever they went.

Also, it is absolutely possible that there are/were images and video taken of the event, but those items have yet to be revealed to the general public. It's possible that they may have been confiscated, as evidence in an ongoing investigations/inquiry, and never released to the original owners.

Edit to add:

I can assure you there is no such place as Bumble-&$%*, TN. I can confirm this, because I live in Tennessee. The people here do actually have access to the same material items that the high-tech city folk are blessed to enjoy.
edit on 10-1-2013 by esteay812 because: (no reason given)


I lived in Tennessee for a few years. hes not lying



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:02 PM
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reply to post by FrznFenix
 


There is still no proof that the 10pm lights were flares. If the military could simulate the same thing they would have done it to shut everyone up. But they cannot stimulate the same thing. The good people of Phoenix should confront the military every anniversary in March and say, "Prove it was flares."

The flare excuse did not come out until June, after a TV news show had taken film of flares over the Air Force gunnery ranges southwest of Phoenix. The hovering lights looked remarkably like the 10 p.m. lights of March 13, and it was suggested as a possible solution to that night's second event.

Then all of a sudden some clueless pilot [maybe he never watched the news or read the paper] comes out and says, "Oh yeah, I dropped flares that night".

Actually the official JUNE version goes like this.

“Within days, Tucson Weekly broke the news that the Maryland Air National Guard, in Arizona for winter training, had a squad of A-10 fighters over the gunnery range that night, and they had dropped flares. An Arizona National Guard public information officer, Captain Eileen Bienz, had determined that the flares had been dropped at 10 p.m. over the North Tac range 30 miles southwest of Phoenix, at an unusually high altitude: 15,000 feet. (Captain Drew Sullins, spokesman for the Maryland Air National Guard, says that the A-10s, which have squarish wings, never went north of Phoenix, so they could not have been responsible for the formation of planes seen at 8:30 p.m.)”

If so, why did Tucson's Davis-Monthan Air Force Base, where the Maryland Air National Guard's A-10s returned that night, initially say it had no planes in the air at that time?

And why did it take them 3 months to respond? [Answer: the news story gave them an out].


Krzyston and others who taped the 10 p.m. event insist that the 10 p.m. lights hovered in front of, not behind, the Estrella, where the gunnery ranges lie.

Jim Dilettoso claims that sophisticated tests performed at Village Labs show that the lights filmed by Krzyston and others could not have been flares -- whatever caused the 10 p.m. event, Dilettoso claims, was like no source of manmade light.



Funny how after 15 years the military has never said "Grab your cameras, we're going to do it again, just like we did it that night."



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:08 PM
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Originally posted by FrznFenix

Originally posted by ItDepends
reply to post by FrznFenix
 


Thank you very much for responding and the additional details. That is interesting to hear about the helicopters. Were you able to watch the entire event from when you initially saw the object and then watch it leave? Along with the helicopters?

Regards, ID


We did leave the spot where we saw it initially but we watched the whole time in the car ride home. The helicopters were either news or police. all we could see was their lights as well but having lived in phoenix and seen all the car chases i knew what they were. Phoenix's freeways serve as emergency flood control during disasters so we were in a 35 foot trench, i dont remember loosing sight of it at all but it is possible we lost sight for a few seconds.
Hope thats what you were asking.


Thanks Fenix for all the information and the time you are taking to reply!
You obviously saw something, only wish I could have been there too!

Cheers!
ID



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:39 PM
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reply to post by charlyv
 



Found it. That second picture is a simulation of what a PI saw that night.
Go to 13.48 in this video to see it.

www.youtube.com...



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:02 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by charlyv
 



Found it. That second picture is a simulation of what a PI saw that night.
Go to 13.48 in this video to see it.

www.youtube.com...

I love that film. The way they measure the amount of light put out by flares vs the "unknowns" as they are reference in it is enough for me to debunk the flares report.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by charlyv


Does anyone know if the photo on the right is an actual photograph, or an artistic conception of the real object that was observed that night in Phoenix ?

According to most of the documentation on the incident, a picture of the actual huge , triangular object was never taken, however this picture shows up in many sites that describe the incident, and also in the research that Dr Lynne Kitel did, along with her book on the subject.

The image on the left is really the flares picture , taken later that night and is not the display that most people that witnessed the event saw.earlier in the evening, after dusk. That picture shows up in every site that discusses Phoenix, and is really not the subject of interest.

One on left flares. One on right animation.

The image on the right, clearly shows an angled object, and illustrates more of what people saw and reported. I wonder if it is a real picture. Does anyone have more info here? Thanks



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:19 PM
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Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by mikefortson
 


Hi Mike, glad to see you here. I have read much of what you've written that has appeared on the UFO Chronicles website, and I have written in reply to many of those on here who think the "Phoenix Lights" incident is all about the dropped flares. Hopefully I've gotten a few of them to do some research into the subject on their own.

I think you'd be surprised, though, by the number of people that still think that it was all about the videos of the flare drop, not just on these boards, but everywhere I go. Every TV show I have ever seen shows that same old clip when talking about the "Phoenix Lights". I have to wonder why this thing is so hard to get through to people.
edit on 1/10/2013 by wtbengineer because: (no reason given)


wtbengineer....that's a battle we will always be facing...all too many time the producer will say, "Oh no, we won't show the flare footage as you speak." Lies every time. The reason is there is no good quality video of the 8 o'clock events. Producers disrespectfully say that they must show the viewing audience something as they will not comprehend what is being said without video....thus, flare footage while witnesses to the large craft speak. Also, this done to confuse the audience. I believe this tactic is done intentionally.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by spiritualarchitect
reply to post by esteay812
 


The military has had 15 years to drop another set of flares to shut everyone up.
They have not done it.
That should tell you something.
Like they cannot recreate it - so they hope it will go away


You are correct. No one has ever tried to recreate the 8 o'clock events.





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