Help ATS with a contribution via PayPal:
learn more

What you can learn from Morgan vs Jones: a basic media training

page: 1
2

log in

join

posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:19 PM
link   
The recent Alex Jones rant is a very good example, how NOT to debate.
Alex just proofed to everybody that he is a lunatic plus did not get his message across.

This thread is not about gun control. I just want to lay out, how you can debate, or deal with media, if you ever want or have to.

I will take the Piers Morgan vs Alex Jones as an example. My own opinion on guns differs a lot from Jones's, but for the sake of it, I will show you the basic debate rules, and how he should have done it.

First of all, time and the attention span of the viewer are limited. So you want to prepare your 3 basic bullet points to get your message across. (prepare other 2 bullet points as Plan B to be sure).

So in the case of pro-gun Alex Jones it could be:

1. I want to be able to defend myself and my family.
2. It's a constitutional right.
3. The problem are not guns, but persons with psychological problems.

For every bullet point you want to have a very good, emotianal example, which everybody can relate to.

Example:

1. The single mother of two who defended her home with a gun to fend of a burglar - what would have happenend when she did'nt had a gun?
2. This is what the country is based on. Mention key words like "Freedom" and so on.
3. Here you can go into the role of side effects of antidepressants used by the latest school-shooters.

Then the TTT-Rule: Touch, talk, turn.

Of course Piers Morgan (or any other "opponent" in your debate) wants to get his points across, or even provoke you, to show what a nutcase you are. What you do: TTT.

For example Piers ask about your believes on 9/11.

You touch the subject: "Piers, this debate is about gun control. Not 9/11. (Pause)
Talk: "On 9/11 the weapons used have been boxcutters, which shows that even without guns terrorism can happen"

Turn: "You see, one of the first reactions after 9/11 was to bring armed Sky-marshalls to planes
So we need armed people to defend ourselves against terrorism."

Talk slow. Use short sentences. Make pauses for emphasis. Respect your host (you are a guest on HIS show) and don't talk him down. Dont shout or yell -EVER!

Boom. You filled your 7 minutes, you brought your point across and get out as a serious, reasonable person.

What Jones did was the exact opposite: in the first 2 minutes he went from gun control, to Stalin, Hitler, Mao, the Indian rape case to global banking and "mass murder pills" -- Too many points, none of them related to the actual discussion about CT-Shooting/gun control or the deportation of Morgan.
He shouted, yelled, did not let Morgan talk, and the fell for the 9/11 trap.

He lost it big time there already, just to go even worse: calling for a fistfight (showing that he IS violent), personal attack on Piers and all english folks by mocking the accent. These are debate tactics spoiled teenagers use. Every adult who uses these tactics is just a pathetic sad loser. You NEVER EVER want to go there.

What disturbs me most is, that AJ is working since ages in media, and does not even know these basic rules of a civilised debate.

And once again, this thread is NOT about gun control. It's about how to debate. Inputs welcome.




posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:44 PM
link   
Responsible debate format, how he should have handled it, and how I would have handled it.

Perhaps Alex felt that rabble-rousing would bring greater attention to his cause?



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:49 PM
link   
I agree with you on a lot of points you have raised with debating and arguing.
As for A.J. I used to cut him A lot of slack as a guy that was very passionate about "the cause" all the while being told by various friends he's a dis informant and the like. but after watching the debate with Morgan and A.J. A perfect opportunity to get the word out that Americans needed, a clean sharp debate, Alex Jones almost on cue goes into full retard mode with crazy eyes waving his tattered pieces of paper around,All the while Morgan maintained complete relaxed calm and control, asking the same questions, it looked so orchestrated every time i viewed it, it was exactly what the MSM wants to portray to the world that the guy who is the self proclaimed advocate for the gun rights is a nut job.
Also take into account A.J. attack against the Young Turks where he made his video in the middle of the night wearing no shirt, looking all strung out.
Seriously this guy is doing more harm than good and I have now taken a side and that side is that Alex Jones is a dis-informant.




posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:53 PM
link   
reply to post by svetlana84
 


It was almost like they dosed him with crystal meth or something. Especially when he started yelling about 1776. [FacePalm]

Now, if anyone brings up any of those topics he blurted out they will automagically be associated with that "nutcase Alex Jones"



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 04:55 PM
link   

Originally posted by Mike.Ockizard
reply to post by svetlana84
 


It was almost like they dosed him with crystal meth or something. Especially when he started yelling about 1776. [FacePalm]

Now, if anyone brings up any of those topics he blurted out they will automagically be associated with that "nutcase Alex Jones"


Exactly, you cant touch it!!



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 05:02 PM
link   
reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 


LOL! I think this might be his next conspiracy claim. "They drugged me before I came on the show!!!"



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 05:05 PM
link   
reply to post by svetlana84
 


Alex was the Clown,
and he performed his part.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 05:35 PM
link   
It was a losing proposition to begin with. The vast majority of those who pay attention to the MSM are already disinclined to believe or identify with anything Jones says. Add on top of that his tendency to jump around chaotically and his overall abrasive personality, and of course he won't be perceived in a positive light by the MSM audience. They're conditioned to be skeptical of anything he says, can't make sense of what he's saying anyway, and in the end is just dismissed as... well, kind of a crazy dick.

And this happens all the time. I've heard and seen him as a guest on other radio and TV shows, and it's the same thing every time. I think this is one of those instances where you have a good message, but a really bad messenger. Perhaps his ego will never allow it, but I think he needs to seriously reconsider ever appearing in a MSM format again. His message and persona will never be compatible with that audience.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 07:51 PM
link   
reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 


Oh my god he has totally f****d himself good and proper.

Let this be a lesson to all conspiracy theorists - do not ever behave like this if you want any credibility

Also on a sader note he really isn't doing any of us any favours. What a tool!

What little time I did have for him is now gone

Silly little man - Alex I hope you read this yo tit



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 10:27 AM
link   
reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 



Lol that video - GOLD!

I am anyway a fan of Ana and Cenk from TYT. Good mix of info and well presented entertainment.
And Alex.... Yupp. Totally lost reality, and facts don't seem to bother him at all.

I start to wonder, is he like that in private? For example looking for the car keys, ranting through the whole house, yelling about those dammned socialist who came for his keys ?

Or is he quite normal at home, drives to work, has 5-6 espressos and 2 Redbull to start ranting for his followers?
And the other question, it has to be raised: What about substances - the only real persons i know who act like that have itchy noses, if you know what I mean. I do not want to make accusations, but it seems a possibility, plus its widespread in media jobs.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 12:29 PM
link   
I didn't see what you saw in the broadcast. What I saw was AJ going to give Darth Vader's minion, or one dripping with the blood of innocents, a good swift and hard kick in the family jewels, and didn't see him going to "debate" but really strongly get his points across, which were the right ones. In other words, saw Alex being Alex.

As for the way he gets upset about things. Good!

Do you think just maybe, he's trying to get others riled up and showing some backbone about the issues unfolding around them that they just sit back and passively ignore.

We need more people riled up, not violent but extremely assertive with their hired employees, they put in office, so they don't walk over our liberties and start to serve and protect all citizens constitutional rights, freedom and happiness
edit on 10-1-2013 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:44 PM
link   
Was Alex right in his premise, more guns less crime? I don't think he was. Arizona is gun friendly, yet it is high on gun deaths. People are to cosy with their ownership of a deadly weapon, which should only be used self-defense, and the trouble is all to often, it is used pre-emptively and without thought, yet even the law will back that up. But the argument killer is that military high power automatic weapons should not be available to anyone except the military. The second amendment as intended, is not what you have practised today which is pretty much, where you are standing. unless you end up in court, and where a judge DECIDES.
In this case, Alex is both right and wrong, trouble is with the rant, he didn't lay out anything that actually gives him or anyone else for that matter, the 'right to keep and bear arms' except where he mentioned government, or rogue government, and that comes with the rest; 'well trained militia'
edit on 10-1-2013 by smurfy because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:55 PM
link   
What if the conspiracy angle is different then you think?

Maybe AJ and Jesse Ventura are connected with a large group of people with a lot of power in the US who would like the government to have less control so they can have more.

If you really pay attention you might be able to pick up on what im talking about. My first notice of this came when Jesse Ventura mentioned something a little out of the ordinary during an interview one time. i will try and find it.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 03:58 PM
link   


Post Navy Near the end of his service in the Navy Ventura began to spend time with the "Dago" chapter of the Mongols motorcycle club, in San Diego. He would ride onto Naval Base Coronado on his Harley-Davidson wearing his Mongol colors. According to Ventura he was a full-patch member of the club and even third in command of his chapter, though he never got into trouble with the authorities.[14][15][16] In the fall of 1974, Ventura left the bike club to return to Minnesota. Shortly after the Mongols entered into open warfare with their rivals, the Hells Angels.[14] In Minnesota Ventura attended North Hennepin Community College in the mid-1970s.[14] At the same time, he began weightlifting and wrestling. He was a bodyguard for The Rolling Stones for a short time before he ventured into professional wrestling and changed his name.[17]


Coincidence? I dont think so.

Source...

Still looking for the video.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:02 PM
link   


Jesse Ventura is currently living in Mexico and says he is totally off the grid.


Source...

I think these 2 buddies have something in common. And to think this guy was a governor.



posted on Jan, 10 2013 @ 04:37 PM
link   

Originally posted by svetlana84
reply to post by PLAYERONE01
 



Lol that video - GOLD!

I am anyway a fan of Ana and Cenk from TYT. Good mix of info and well presented entertainment.
And Alex.... Yupp. Totally lost reality, and facts don't seem to bother him at all.

I start to wonder, is he like that in private? For example looking for the car keys, ranting through the whole house, yelling about those dammned socialist who came for his keys ?

Or is he quite normal at home, drives to work, has 5-6 espressos and 2 Redbull to start ranting for his followers?
And the other question, it has to be raised: What about substances - the only real persons i know who act like that have itchy noses, if you know what I mean. I do not want to make accusations, but it seems a possibility, plus its widespread in media jobs.


I wondered that too, although I didn't see the Piers Morgan interview live, I take it that the Youtube version is more or less correct, as it is interactive. But he is quite tubby, which is a contrast to the high energy pump that he is as we always see him. Let's just say the he is as theatrical as Piers Morgan..had to laugh at Alex going into the English accent, and the foreigner bit, while Morgan is actually up to the kilt in Irishness, come to think about it, you might have been looking at the two sides of the coin as to how the second amendment came about in the first place!
edit on 10-1-2013 by smurfy because: Text.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 06:25 AM
link   
@Unity_99:



I didn't see what you saw in the broadcast. What I saw was AJ going to give Darth Vader's minion, or one dripping with the blood of innocents, a good swift and hard kick in the family jewels, and didn't see him going to "debate" but really strongly get his points across, which were the right ones. In other words, saw Alex being Alex.


No personal attack, but this post is a good example how NOT to debate.
I do not even get what you are talking about. Who are Darth Vader's minions? Has Darth Vader (a fictional character) become the CEO of CNN ? Dripping with the blood of the innocents ?? A hard kick in the family jewels? (Is it about a street fight, or about a civilised debate?) Care to elaborate what that all means?
Are we talking Star Wars now ? Promoting violence? It s all very confusing.

I agree in your last phrase: Alex being Alex.

------
@onequestion:


What if the conspiracy angle is different then you think?


I never talked about a conspiracy angle, nor do i see a conspiracy in here. I am talking about how to hold a civilised debate and getting a point across.
There may or may be no relations or agendas between AJ and Jesse.

On a side note, personally I tend to avoid the word conspiracy - since every time I used it in discussions people start to try puttin me in looney bin, since the word is strongly attached to people behaving like AJ.
edit on 11-1-2013 by svetlana84 because: Typos



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 09:29 AM
link   
I found the whole thing to be quite entertaining, Ahh, yes, another brilliant performance by the seemingly unstable Mr.Alex Jones. I should have turned it off the second he started wagging his finger and yelling like an angry Klansman, but I couldn't bring myself to do it. I was excited by the Jones melt down that was starting and even more excited by the thought of him totally losing it, tackling Morgan, and beating him half to death ... which may have made it more interesting.

MASSMURDERPILLS!!!!

Am I the only one who is sick of the same old script here ... bud? Alex Jones isn't the Jean Jacques Rousseau wanna-be that he makes a sad, crazed attempt to portray. Is it just me, or does it seem like Alex Jones MUST be working for someone and is paid to instill a sense of fear and anger, stir up controversy, and discredit any ideas, theories, or people that go against the official BS stories we are force-fed? He has quite a way with adding absurd, seemingly fictional facts, and embellished statistics to a large pile of slightly more common, rational theories and ideas. He talks about things like bringing to light the truth behind 9/11, or auditing the federal reserve, or about how our freedom of speech is slowly being taken away ... and ends up completely discrediting those once obvious truths and rational ideas by becoming enraged and flipping out on his radio show listeners for not getting angry enough about the Mexicans that are crossing the border, and making outlandish statements like "juice boxes are turning your kids gay!" and "The government is pumping your local police with steroids". In the mind of your average stupid schmuck that believes everything they are told to believe, the lines blur, and it all looks the same. The guy that want's to see the Presidents birth certificate now becomes as nuts as Alex Jones. So, it's no shock that Alex would go on Piers Morgan's show and yell at him for expressing his freedom of speech (not saying I agree with Piers. He's foreign and therefor his opinion doesn't count). Piers (or CNN, whatever) obviously want's to infringe on your right to keep and bear arms, and form a well regulated militia anyway (it's necessary to the security of a free state!), so what better way to humiliate the cause? Subject the viewer to an obnoxious Alex Jones rant about taking Miss.America's gun away from her, raping unarmed Indian women to death with 4ft polls, and counting how many chimpanzees can dance on the head of a pin. With the help of an overzealous, methed out Alex Jones, CNN just made up a tun of peoples minds on the 2nd Amendment. The less thinking they do for themselves, the happier they are. , oh well ...... we will always have youtube videos to remind us of the day Alex Jones tried to subliminally coerce the grossly dis-informed viewing audience of CNN (or Piers Morgan ... whatever) into taking suicide pills.

Jeez, that was confusing, but not as bad as the # they put on FOX





new topics




 
2

log in

join