A New Interpretation (The message confiscated by the church)

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posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I think you have a common misunderstanding of who the god Jesus spoke of is. God has never been separate from his creation because he is the creation. Please correct me if I'm wrong, I don't mean to assume.

*snip*


That isn't even logical. Claiming God is His own creation is like claiming that you are a clay pot you decide to make. Utterly nonsensical idea. Jesus IS God. Reading the first chapter of John shows this, and there are many other references to prove that point.




posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:11 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The resurrection never happened, *snip*


There, you totally lost all credibility on this issue. Deny what He did, and you deny Him. Do that, and you are spreading a false message.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:14 AM
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Did you somehow miss my post on page 2, or are you ignoring it? A reply would be courteous. I offered several points regarding your initial post, and you responded to none of it.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:17 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


Obviously you need to brush up on your history because Luke most certainly never met Jesus, he even admits that at the very beginning of his gospel.


Luke 1

2 just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were eyewitnesses and servants of the word.


Mark was originally sent in by an anonymous writer and wasn't attributed to him until the second century. There is also nothing in the bible nor history that implies that he did meet him. Have you even read the bible? Seriously?

Neither were part of the twelve either. You might want to research before you reply next time.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I never come to this part of ATS, so I feel I was led to this post to reply, maybe, or just to enjoy what you had to say, either way, I feel blessed.

I wanted to share - I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about near death or back from the dead experiences, be it online, or in many books out there, some harder to track down than others - each story holds a different, personal aspect that reveals something of what really matters, what is truth, what is eternal, what is purposeful, and I would have to say, having been redeemed as a child over 37 years ago - attended every denomination out there, I myself have come to these same conclusions, and the people who actually met Jesus in the beyond came back to share things much the same as what you have said - only love will win.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:20 AM
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reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
 

His anger was like that of a daughter playing with a loaded gun. When the church becomes the place to find salvation man has lost. Salvation is not found anywhere. This is why Jesus says if they say he is here or there do not believe them. Salvation is found within a man. I believe that we have come to two types of worship those who worship self and those who worship a church.

I believe that God is intervening once again. And again 2000 years later a 3rd type of man is appearing. Men who worship God from within through love. We do this by recognizing what should be obvious to all men.

There is one God, there is no religion there is no separation. We all have the same father and he loves us. He sent his son to tell man for the first time about Grace, and he told us that this Grace would be so powerful that it would free us from our sins. That Grace could allow us to die on the cross with Christ, so that we too may be raised to be like him. His Grace is extended to you today, everyday. If you would just believe that Love wants to set you free so you can pursue him than he will come to you. The name love chose for our lord is Jesus.

He is the first man to teach Grace. It was unknown concept to man prior to his birth. Anyone who believes that they have been justified by their sin owes that justification to Christ. Before Christ there were only two types of people. People who lived by the law and those who did not. Christ made the path for the third man. He opened the door for us to live by the spirit. This is not a door that one must wait to find. One must only believe that the door exists and that if you believe in it the door will open. This is what Jesus wants you to know.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:25 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 



Colossians 1

17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.



If we are in him then we are a part of him just as your spirit is a part of you. He is within and without. He in you and you in him.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


You say that I deny him but that is easy because you are not me. Understand that I do not deny him, I embrace him. Just because I believe in him in a different way than you does not mean I'm wrong.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:27 AM
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Originally posted by saintinwaiting
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


I never come to this part of ATS, so I feel I was led to this post to reply, maybe, or just to enjoy what you had to say, either way, I feel blessed.

I wanted to share - I have been reading everything I can get my hands on about near death or back from the dead experiences, be it online, or in many books out there, some harder to track down than others - each story holds a different, personal aspect that reveals something of what really matters, what is truth, what is eternal, what is purposeful, and I would have to say, having been redeemed as a child over 37 years ago - attended every denomination out there, I myself have come to these same conclusions, and the people who actually met Jesus in the beyond came back to share things much the same as what you have said - only love will win.


Your post was a blessing. I think I have been given the gift to interrupt. I believe that I have been given an understanding of the bible that few have ever seen. I am waiting for someone to use scripture to prove me wrong but every attempt fails. And I know by what others post that most people agree with me. We are believing this because we are men who simply set out to pursue God. And maybe we never found him but he finally revealed himself to us. This is how we know it is not by works that we were saved.
edit on 11-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:31 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
 


You say that I deny him but that is easy because you are not me. Understand that I do not deny him, I embrace him. Just because I believe in him in a different way than you does not mean I'm wrong.


Yes my brother that is exactly what I am saying. And by the way Paul is the one who teaches that in the NT. This needs to stop causing separation. My God can't we just believe in Jesus and forgive everything else?

Honestly why do we let who we think he was separate us. This is not important. What is important is that we all believe that we should love everyone. If we could have done this on our own than maybe we wouldn't need Jesus.

But I was not strong enough and it is through him that I found my salvation. This is my truth. Jesus is my lord and God is my father. If they are one as Jesus claims than a man that has found God has found Jesus. If it is obvious by a mans fruit that a Gentile has found salvation who am I to argue with God. Rather than argue with God why not teach him the rest of the truth that can be found in Christ. If indeed he has found God he will love your Christ even if he does not convert. If a man loves God and Loves Christ, and he proves it because he loves you than what is it to you what else he believes?
edit on 11-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 



John 1

16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.


This verse implies we had grace before Jesus was ever here. Jesus brought grace to replace grace? So he didn't really replace anything at all. Jesus never even talked about grace. Paul is the one who talked about grace, not Jesus. You're getting the two confused.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:50 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The post you replied to was not directed at you. If you say that I deny him just because I do not believe he died and resurrected then you'd be wrong. How am I denying him when I embrace him and his message? Like I said to Lady (who I was replying to here) that is easy for you to say because you are not me.

You claim to disagree with the church yet you support its creator and main selling point. You still have a few stumbling blocks to get over before you see it clearly it seems.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The comment of his anger being like a girl and a toy gun is an assumption. All I know is that I wouldn't go somewhere and start trashing the place unless I was really angry, I don't think Jesus would be any different.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:56 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 



John 1

16 Out of his fullness we have all received grace in place of grace already given.


This verse implies we had grace before Jesus was ever here. Jesus brought grace to replace grace? So he didn't really replace anything at all. Jesus never even talked about grace. Paul is the one who talked about grace, not Jesus. You're getting the two confused.


No you are confused. Having something and knowing something are inherently different concepts. Yes God in his mercy has always had Grace for his children. But the concept of Grace was not taught to anyone until Jesus. So if you don't know you have something how can it be of benefit to you. The Jews were given an enormous burden. They were subjected to the law for all of us. They could not achieve righteousness because they were all lawbreakers. They were all promised salvation to lighten this burden.

Today we are under a New Covenant, a better covenant. One where we know about Grace and thus we can accept God into our hearts and be changed. We can become spiritually free men. So that we may learn to love more perfectly.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 01:59 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The comment of his anger being like a girl and a toy gun is an assumption. All I know is that I wouldn't go somewhere and start trashing the place unless I was really angry, I don't think Jesus would be any different.


They were allowing thieves to exchange goods in the temple. These peoples religion had become useless. They considered themselves God's chosen people but they lived like this? Really why would anyone convert to that religion? These people had become spiritually dead. They weren't just holding the gun to their head they had pulled the trigger. And Jesus said stop this before you really do die.
edit on 11-1-2013 by sacgamer25 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:01 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


What is grace other than love? Do you really think Jesus was the first to teach about love? That's a nonsensical statement. Plato taught about love and he lived 400 years before Jesus.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:03 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So now you agree Jesus was angry? So now your reason about having anger within you is moot?

He could have told them to stop without turning tables over. He was angry so he trashed the place, that's obvious.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:05 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


The post you replied to was not directed at you. If you say that I deny him just because I do not believe he died and resurrected then you'd be wrong. How am I denying him when I embrace him and his message? Like I said to Lady (who I was replying to here) that is easy for you to say because you are not me.

You claim to disagree with the church yet you support its creator and main selling point. You still have a few stumbling blocks to get over before you see it clearly it seems.
edit on 11-1-2013 by 3NL1GHT3N3D1 because: (no reason given)


The funny thing is I am not trying to convert you. The truth is simply the truth. But you are trying to convert me. Why if I am not trying to convert you are you trying to convert me? I don't need a religion, I just need Jesus.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by sacgamer25
 


So now you agree Jesus was angry? So now your reason about having anger within you is moot?


No because my anger comes from my inability to forgive completely. My anger is not for love but against love. Every emotion can be used to express love. But only if they are used correctly. When they are used incorrectly they can become destructive forces in your life. It is those destructive forces that we need God's help to overcome.



posted on Jan, 11 2013 @ 02:09 AM
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reply to post by sacgamer25
 


Religion? What are you talking about? I'm not trying to convert you.


How am I trying to push religion on you when I'm telling you to deny it? You are turning yourself in circles here. You are welcome to believe what you want but don't assume something that is clearly not true.





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