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Current and former US soldiers, if ordered to fire on your countrymen would you obey?

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posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:33 AM
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Less than a year ago I had a gut feeling that something big is coming, that feeling hasn't gone away, in fact, it's only gotten stronger. Lately on ATS I've been observing more and more threads popping up pertaining to the subject of a second revolutionary war. Out of all WW3 and apocalyptic scenarios, this one seems most likely, the people are growing tense, and the government is out of control, we're growing fed up with the disinformation, false flags, greed, and corruption. I, like any American, would rather have a bloodless revolution. Our ancestors 300 years ago had the same idea, but the British however, chose bloodshed. A few of my ancestors played a key role in the first revolution, rebellion is in my blood, so naturally I wouldn't hesitate to fight for the same reasons they did, I feel it to be my duty.
I read a prediction about false flags leading to an American resistance, and all out war. I'm not saying I buy prophecies, however it did make me think about something. If a revolution did come, would our own soldiers fire on us? I would assume the majority answer to be no, as no true American would attack a fellow countrymen in war, no matter what the orders are. I'm sure their are a brainwashed few with undying loyalty to government would obey the orders without hesitation. If we had to fight against our own military we wouldn't stand a chance and this beloved country of ours would be forever lost.
For financial reasons I'm enlisting in the Army this year so I can at least go to college. Hypothetically if this prediction were to be true would happen within my enlistment term. Alas, I would face life in prison before firing on a fellow American for some politician.
So, I would like to ask any current, former service members or even people here on ATS who know any, would you obey such and order? For fellow ATS members I'm sure the answer is no, but I'm more so curious about the general population or non-members. What do you think would happen?




posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:35 AM
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Like protestors or something?

NO way.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:40 AM
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After seeing the reactions to Occupy Wall Street I have no doubt our own would eventually fire against us.

We all saw the rage and vitriol surrounding a somewhat aimless and sloppy "movement" just imagine how it will be when an individual with a message and some ambition steps in.

Like Assad said the other day, a revolution needs intellectuals
edit on 9-1-2013 by Hawking because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 01:57 AM
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no. and those that know my perspective on this know that neither I nor those I know in uniform now would without cause.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:04 AM
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You have to remember that a modern government cant just attack its own people.

The idea of Civil War in America is absurd.

I do think it is possible that a fraction of the American population that consider themselves patriots/constitutionalists/libertarians could take up arms against the US Government at some point but those people will be hunted down like dogs in a flash. And they should be because they would be terrorists. Taking up arms against your own government is a terrorist act. Of course the Government will respond. Police take up arms against their own "countrymen" every day. Why wouldnt the military if they were actually required?

The real way for American states to do something is for them to secede. This will get them off the hook for the National Debt and save their people from the US Federal Government. Certain US states are already becoming more pro secession. The International Community would never allow the US Federal Government to wage war on its own former countrymen just because they decided to secede in this day and age. The south could secede now without America waging war on them.

A break up of the United States because states secede is far more likely than Civil War in my opinion. Texas alone has the ability to destabilize the rest of the United States by breaking away due to its massive economy. Texas is much better off as its own country. This is true for many states.

If you are an American that is against the Federal Government then help your state secede. It worries me to see Americans speak of taking up arms against their government. The US constitution encourages terrorism and people need to understand that they do not have the right to take up arms against their government for any reason. You will not be a 'patriot' you will be a terrorist and the government will have every right to fire on you.
edit on 9-1-2013 by HenryNorris because: (no reason given)
edit on 9-1-2013 by HenryNorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:07 AM
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reply to post by HenryNorris
 


Killing Hitler circa 1943, illegal. Bad idea in the long scheme of things though?

That government ended up deposed.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:17 AM
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It's pretty simple really. When we enlist, we swear an oath to the Constitution. Anyone who is a threat to the values and ideals presented in the Constitution is an enemy.

Using this guide you should have no problem determining who is and who is not a valid target.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:25 AM
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reply to post by ZeroReady
 


There only seems a few that are violating the constitution in our country these days.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:32 AM
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I would only Fire on those Americans that failed to use the search function before making new threads on ATS...

Would us troops kill americans

US troops asked if they would shoot American citizens

Troops ordered to kill Americans that don't turn in guns

If you look, there's more...



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 02:33 AM
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Originally posted by yourmaker
reply to post by HenryNorris
 


Killing Hitler circa 1943, illegal. Bad idea in the long scheme of things though?

That government ended up deposed.


Killing Bill Clinton before he was elected president may have prevented the bombing of Yugoslavia and Iraq but that wouldnt make it right. The American people wont let him have sex with an intern but the American people dont care about the bombing of people in far off countries. If the people want a president removed they dont need to take up arms.

I know most Americans liked Clinton but most Germans liked Hitler. Killing is never the answer. This is hard for Americans to understand because the American Government has a constitution that encourages terrorism against a tyranical government and the American Government still has Capital Punishment. And lets not forget all the killing the US military does. Killing is no solution to anything and it certainly no place in politics.

Do you really think the US Government is afraid of patriots taking up arms against them? They seem to want it as far as I can tell.
edit on 9-1-2013 by HenryNorris because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 03:03 AM
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reply to post by HenryNorris
 


What makes that impossible brother, right now as we converse a modern government is killing people.
edit on 9-1-2013 by zonetripper2065 because: (no reason given)



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 03:06 AM
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reply to post by JohnCreed777
 


Disclaimer: I am and Australian and I am legally insane!
I am obviously a bitter communist!
And I have never been in the armed forces. Use this information at your own risk ok, but I still remain legally responsible for all my comments as per the ATS T&C's.

Explanation: S&F!

Yes! US soldiers must fire on their own countrymen if ordered to do so,... because they took an oath to uphold The Constitution of the USA. ... and The Constitution of the USA. is the only thing they have to obey!

POTUS's come and go ... Constitutional Policy is FOREVER!

The POTUS is outranked by the Constitution at all times .. even they are SUBORDINATE TO IT!

So if you see a superior officer breaking the law ... you are mandated by your blood oath to The Constitution of the USA. to bring them to justice asap no matter what the cost to yourself.

Anything less is cowardice!


Personal Disclosure: As for shooting my fellow citizens inside my own country, if I was a soldier, NO FREAKING WAY ... I would never allow myself to become a oppressive and tyranical tool against my own countrymen ... who the bloody hell am I defending?

It is WE THE PEOPLE!



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by HenryNorris
 



The US constitution encourages terrorism and people need to understand that they do not have the right to take up arms against their government for any reason.


You know, it is this kind of thinking that TPTB want us all to have. The constitution promotes freedom, not terrorism. And yes people do have a constitutional right to use force to take back the government if and when it gains too much power. It is our current government that wants to label those things as terrorist acts. Just like how federal agencies are now teaching their newbies that the founding fathers were terrorists. It is this line of thinking that allows us to be3 in the posittion we find ourselves in today. I don't advocate violence or taking up arms against the government. I too believe there are better ways to accomplish our goals. However, If my life or my families life is in danger tdue to the US GOV I will gladly use my firearms to protect my family.

OP, as a US Marine I would not fire on my fellow citizens as that would violate the oath I took upon enlistment. However I served with many people who are brainwashed enough or just to stupid to know anybetter so unfortunately there are those who will. I believe we would see an uprising and division in the military ranks if that order were to be given in a widespread manner.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:03 AM
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Yes, I would. Under certain circumstances. As others have pointed out, the oath taken by the military is to the Constitution. Not the President and not the government. Remember that the government and the military (current and former) is made up of our fellow countrymen.

So, if the unthinkable happens and we find ourselves in another revolutionary/civil war no mater which side you find yourself on, you will be firing on fellow countrymen.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:05 AM
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Originally posted by ZeroReady
It's pretty simple really. When we enlist, we swear an oath to the Constitution. Anyone who is a threat to the values and ideals presented in the Constitution is an enemy.

Using this guide you should have no problem determining who is and who is not a valid target.


Bullcrap. Then why hasn't the US Army engaged Washington?



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:06 AM
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They won't have to think...

The feds will put a few trouble makers in the crowds and start to shoot at the soldiers and the soldiers will just respond...

But certainly a big part of the troops and cops will go home (and to war against the scum running the show) if they start collecting weapons.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 10:11 AM
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Coxey's Army, the Bonus Rebellion, Kent State.

It happened before.

Would I have? In some cases. If a bunch of guys were armed and shooting at us, hell yeah. I'd be on the Mark 19 yelling "get some! get some!" while I ground you into paste.

Shoot you for marching? No.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 11:12 AM
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reply to post by JohnCreed777
 


Think of a worst case scenario and a situation where you would actually want me to defend you. I would follow all lawful orders. This means that I would have to think for myself, and determine the lawfulness of an order. You do not blindly follow orders, or you might find yourself convicted of war crimes. Would I fire on unarmed civilians who are demonstrating? No, of course I would not.

If things took a turn for the worst and people began rioting? No, non-lethal force should be deployed by law enforcement. If you are huddled in your home, afraid to go outside, would I fire on an armed militia terrorizing my countrymen when law enforcement fails? Yes, because they will have made themselves terrorists, and I would fire to protect the citizens of the United States and to uphold the Constitution if there were no other way.

If ordered to do so, I would do the same for any country in need. I do not know you, and I do not have to like you, but I would pick up my weapon to defend you if it were lawful to do so and there is no chance of a peaceful resolution. We are not free to do whatever we want. My rights end where yours begin, and vice versa. I do not have the right to just harm you; unless it is in defense of my person or someone else (I do not believe property is worth someone’s life, prison, yes, but not a death sentence).



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 12:18 PM
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Originally posted by CALGARIAN

Originally posted by ZeroReady
It's pretty simple really. When we enlist, we swear an oath to the Constitution. Anyone who is a threat to the values and ideals presented in the Constitution is an enemy.

Using this guide you should have no problem determining who is and who is not a valid target.


Bullcrap. Then why hasn't the US Army engaged Washington?


I was flying out of a small airport in the early 80s. I met an individual who had been a company commander who relayed the following story to me. His name was Andy.

The setting was when President Nixon was in the last few months of his presidency.
Some in the Army were strong supporters of Nixon. There was a battalion of armor loaded on a train at Fort Hood Texas waiting for the order to go to Washington and ring the White house with Armor to protect Nixon.
The one branch of the military that said no, "NO WAY" was the Airforce. They were still pissed at the frag orders and mission requirements that they had to follow during the bombing of the North during the Vietnam war and thought the Nixon White house was full of idiots. I don't really blame them when looking at some of their mission requirements.

If what Andy said is true we were very close to a military intervention in American politics.

Will the American Military fire upon Americans...It all depends on the purpose and reason that is presented to them. Kent State and the Bonus Army seemed to point to a possible future if history repeats itself.



posted on Jan, 9 2013 @ 08:02 PM
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Absolutely not. Period.





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