*Reality Check Video* Ben Swann breaks down Piers Morgan's UK vs US violence rate.

Originally posted by eLPresidente
For all the people buying into Piers Morgan's numbers, here is the dissection of the figures on a global scale.

Is UK really all that Piers claims its cracked up to be?

Ben Swann breaks it down for you.

www.fox19.com...

edit on 8-1-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

It is, he'd know he lived here.
I've lived here my whole life, our gun laws work, that's why everyone I speak to laughs when I mention your countries view on gun ownership.
Don't try and badmouth a country you haven't lived in or know little about.

That article "Britain as violent as south Africa", is that a f**king joke?

I've never agreed with piers, I hate him just as much as everyone else in this country does. But I think he's right on this one and you should listen to someone who actually knows.

Originally posted by sajuek

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Are you SURE UK's definition of crime envelops more crimes than the U.S. does? Where did you get this information from?

And second, why does the EU name UK as the second most violent country in the union?

Violent crime in the UK also includes things like vandalism, threat of violence which can be just cases of people having shouting matches in the streets at night. In the evening, most the pubs and clubs in just about every British town open up - there's a strong nightlife here wherever you go compared to the states. Because of powers vested into the Police where they can ask people to move along for being drunk & disorderly or otherwise unpleasant and people who refuse to move, return the area or are picked up for being D&D are booked as violent crime.

Although as long as you don't swear at or swing for your arresting officer you'll probably just get a slap on the wrist and a night in the cells.

I would agree that the UK is probably the most violent member out of North and West Europe however, perhaps Ireland excluded. But that said, these are just about all non-gun owning countries too.

As for UK being the second most violent country in the Union, it's total nonsense. Please keep in mind that the Union includes countries which include Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, Romania all of whom have very corrupt police forces and under-reporting of crimes is a serious issue as well as again, reporting methods being very different.

Despite public perception exacerbated by the Daily Mail and other sensationalist newspapers as well as the human condition to assume yesterday was better than today; there is no crime wave. Almost every violent crime is at a 20+ year low even with reporting techniques and people-police communication being better than ever.

UK Policemen don't carry guns and it's not considered to be a particularly dangerous job and it's not because there is a violent crime problem.

Quoting UN statistics, in 2011 the US had a murder rate of 4.8 people per 100,000 persons. The UK had a murder rate of 1.2 people per 100,000 persons, four times less. How Americans seem to think they have ground to stand on when arguing that the UK, let alone other anti-gun owning states in the EU are less safe is simply laughable.

The points raised in the video are absurd grasping for straw acts and completely null and void to a subjective mind.

Literally couldn't have said it any better. Ignorance is bliss ey?
Funny how they seem to hate everything about their government, I mean this is a conspiracy website that's what you expect, yet when it comes to a
Little hobby they enjoy, they'll fight it to their graves because its their "right".

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by sajuek

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Stuff.

I don't care about anything that Gary Kleck said. I won't dispute that America has #ed itself so royally it can't possibly solve its gun addiction and that removing them would only put them in the hands of criminals. I will only stand on the fact that the UK is not a violent place. It is not more violent than South Africa. It is not more violent than any US City. And that banning guns was the best step towards making a society I'd want my kids to grow up in our government has ever taken.

edit on 10-1-2013 by sajuek because: (no reason given)

I was going to respond to your points, even though they were horrible to begin with (remember you said you were going to "destroy the silly video"?). But that last paragraph was just complete bull.

You don't care what a criminologist has to say? Somebody that is an expert in this field. Somebody that USED to agree with you on gun control until he conducted studies and saw the facts? Right, you don't like the facts, you only care about the facts when they make your own nation look bad? and when they do make your country look bad you discredit them completely. Looking back at all of your postings, I'm actually not surprised you wouldn't care about the facts.

You clearly let emotion get in the way, enough to make you say something ridiculous like, "I will only stand on the fact that the UK is not a violent place. It is not more violent than any US City." Really? ANY U.S. CITY? wow... I see the EU factoid has clearly gone to your head. I'm not just saying it, you have proved it with your own words.

America has royally f'd itself by having a gun addiction? REALLY? Typical straw man. I never once personally attacked British culture in here but you felt you had to. Why? losing the argument?

CERTAIN Americans understand the second amendment. CERTAIN Americans know their history. CERTAIN Americans LIVE FREE or DIE.

BILL OF RIGHTS - AMENDMENT II

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

edit on 10-1-2013 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Again you skirt the issue. I don't care about Gary Kleck as I could pull out 10 puppets for every 1 of yours to bleat my agenda too and I simply don't have time to read up on him or watch his videos. Also, holding an opinion and later on changing it, doesn't somehow make your new opinion more valid.

en.wikipedia.org...

(Sourced via os.cqpress.com...)

Yep. I'm willing to stake that with very few exceptions, the UK's overall crime rate, if compared using the same standards, is lower than just about any of the US cities listed here. I feel safe walking around alone on my streets at night without carrying a gun, even in cities like London. Could you say the same about anywhere on that list?

People in this very thread have said that they all know someone or of someone who has needed to use a gun in self defence, even if that didn't ending braining someone, does that sound like something typical of a peaceful country?

web.orange.co.uk...

The UK homicide rate has cut in half in 10 years. Does that reek of a violent culture to you?

Yeah, America has #ed itself and even gun advocates agree. "Well, banning firearms worked for the UK, but it wouldn't work here as only good folk would hand them over!" Which I agree with, there's nothing you can do about it, it's too late for your people to redeem themselves as gun control laws would simply mean armed criminals, and I bet you'd still have armed police too.

"CERTAIN Americans understand the second amendment. CERTAIN Americans know their history. CERTAIN Americans LIVE FREE or DIE."

Well the consequence of an armed society is it also makes it a paranoid one. Meaning ultimately you live "Free" if freedom is defined by having the option open to you to easily murder anyone you choose, but you stand a significantly higher chance of "Dieing 'Free'" as a consequence.

Yet again you ignore the South Africa comparison. Please address it as you need to either give up your claim or state that South Africa is a less violent country than the United Kingdom.

Originally posted by Maxatoria
reply to post by Suspiria

 

Other than a guy a know burning a friends body after killing him to try and hide the body

i've no knowledge of serious stupidity around here

But generally around here theres very little trouble that cant be sorted by a good presence

Yeah I know..It's mostly domestics or drunken brawls. Even the court files are mostly full of road tax dodgers.
I don't exactly pick up the Sentinel at anytime and see it as a fear mongering tool of the NWO.

reply to post by sajuek

As for UK being the second most violent country in the Union, it's total nonsense. Please keep in mind that the Union includes countries which include Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, Romania all of whom have very corrupt police forces and under-reporting of crimes is a serious issue as well as again, reporting methods being very different.

The countries you are talking about doesn't even make the list.

Quoting UN statistics, in 2011 the US had a murder rate of 4.8 people per 100,000 persons. The UK had a murder rate of 1.2 people per 100,000 persons, four times less. How Americans seem to think they have ground to stand on when arguing that the UK, let alone other anti-gun owning states in the EU are less safe is simply laughable.

Let the citizens of the UK have the right to bare arms and then come back with that lame argument. The fact remains that the UK has more violent crime than America. Live with it.

reply to post by sajuek

The UK homicide rate has cut in half in 10 years. Does that reek of a violent culture to you?

No it reeks of a culture that doesn't know how to properly use a weapon.

Yeah, America has #ed itself and even gun advocates agree. "Well, banning firearms worked for the UK, but it wouldn't work here as only good folk would hand them over!" Which I agree with, there's nothing you can do about it, it's too late for your people to redeem themselves as gun control laws would simply mean armed criminals, and I bet you'd still have armed police too.

No true American would ever give up their right to bare arms.

"CERTAIN Americans understand the second amendment. CERTAIN Americans know their history. CERTAIN Americans LIVE FREE or DIE."

Yes certain Americans Americans understand the second amendment that's why we will never give up our weapons. Who knows if your gun rights hadn't been taken away then you wouldn't have to put up with the royal parasites.

Straw man argument.

Classic deflection tactics away from an issue and a total waste of time. Two different countries, two different cultures and two different versions of "violent crime".

How about people stop focusing on someones nationality and actually start focusing on the issue that started all this instead?

See, this is the problem nowadays, people find 101 things to discuss other than the actual issue.

Originally posted by woogleuk
reply to post by Logos23

 

Sadly I fear this is nothing more than a really bad, failed attempt at taking a pop at the British members of ATS who voice their opinion over gun control in the USA.

As you, I and other members have stated, the crime figures are possibly the worst things to look at to get an idea of actual physical violent crime.

Unfortunately these facts will fall upon deaf ears.

At the end of the day, I feel safe walking down the streets and sending my kid to school, so I couldn't really give a tarts furry cup.

Actually, it is more about Americans being fed up with the way the media is portraying our country. It is so bad we have people making youtube videos trying to set the facts straight, with real statistics. Statistics that will not make the light of day on MSM. To add insult to injury, a British man is trying to make the problems look worse than they are. I guarantee you if an American man did that in your country, more than a few Brits would be offended. He compared bogus numbers on live T.V., to make America look bad, got that?

You know what else, I also feel safe walking down my streets, there has not been a murder in my town in years. Whether relevant or not, I feel pretty safe in saying that 1 in 2-3 of my neighbors are gun owners as well. America is portrayed as if there is a crime waiting to happen around every corner, and that is simply not true.

What I find sad, is that British have to worry about being arrested, and thrown in jail for a night, just for something like yelling or having an argument, and that this is considered a crime at all, much less a "violent crime".

This should not be a "pi**ing match" between Americans and Brits. It should be a wake-up call to look around at our diminishing personal rights, plain and simple.

Just wanted to correct the myth on the interwebs about firearms in the UK.

THEY HAVE NOT BEEN BANNED. Some types were restricted 15 years ago.
Many classes of firearms are legal in the UK with the correct paperwork.
In the UK we have a RIGHT to own a shotgun. It's not a privilege but a RIGHT.
For other guns you need to demonstrate a need. Participating in gun sports in one such 'need'.

reply to post by merkins


We do have rather a large amount of gun clubs for a nation that had their guns taken away...

reply to post by buster2010


"No true American would ever give up their right to bare arms."

Most people on the planet (with the possible exception of some in muslim countries) would never give up the right to bare arms.

I hate long sleeved shirts so I always wear short sleeves that show my bare arms. No matter what the government does I'll always wear short sleeves.

Sorry couldn't resist.

Originally posted by Suspiria
reply to post by merkins

 

We do have rather a large amount of gun clubs for a nation that had their guns taken away...

Ain't that the truth. I've got 6 clubs in my area and they are all fully subscribed. I've been waiting for members to leave so I could join for over 6 yrs now.

reply to post by buster2010


I think that's the point the poster was making.

They are not on the list because of massive corruption and under reporting of crimes in the categories being discussed.

Funny how ATS members ridicule Fox news at every opportunity yet the OP uses Fox on here to justify his point
BTW I don't like and never have Piers Morgan but he does have a point of view and a fairly decent one, the problem is you just can't compare the UK and US they are so different in many ways and even the blind can see that ome.

I seriously ask myself a lot of the time why some people even bother to spend their time on this place......I mean it's a conspiracy theory website but yet people make claims all the time that are based purely in media hype and propaganda with no interest in finding out the truth.....and even if the bullcrap is broken down for them and the truth addressed they chose to simply ignore it and continue to run away with the media hype and propaganda.

The OP as made various claims....all of which I have addressed and given credible sources and links for showing the actual REAL picture. He also as asked me two questions which I have answered and backed up.....which he as also ignored. He seem's to be selective when it comes to educating himself.

The OP and some others on here have no interest in finding out the truth because adhering to the bullcrap suits their agenda far better......end of!

The video link didn't work for me but i found it on youtube.. just posting this as a courtesy for anyone else who might have had trouble..

reply to post by eLPresidente


LOL Alex Jones what an a-hole accuses the UK of being more violent was not on 2 minutes and challenges Piers Morgan to a boxing match the IRONY of that is fantastic.

Also what crimes are recorded as violent crimes in the UK are often not recorded as such elsewhere that skews the figs.

Still shows more guns, more gun deaths.

ALL Murders in USA 2011 total 14,612 UK 564.

USA 5 times UK population 25 times the murder rate!!!!

The discussion between Piers and Alex is regarding gun crime. So lets not try muddying the waters with violent crime and lets stick to the point of the argument.

You make the UK sound like its ravaged by shoot outs when the figures for england and wales according to the guardian newspaper are that per 100,000 head of population there are 0.07 gun related homicides in england and wales. In the US per 100,000 there are 2.97 gun related homicides.

www.guardian.co.uk...

So in the US you are 42 times more likely to be shot dead than in England,

We still use Long bows here

What a surprise the source is that same falsified Tory government manifesto quoted by the Daily Mail.

Anyone who thinks that statistics stating the UK has a higher rate of violent crime per 100,000 people than even South Africa or the United States when it is at the same time spelled out time again that the latter two nations dwarf the UK in per capita assault, rape and murder, needs a reality check.

reply to post by Suspiria


Probably the best use for a gun would to of been when the bus returned from the highwayman and everyone used to watch the guys from zanzibar run up and down the road fighting each other while grabbing a late night burger as we could of put money on the shaven haired idiots and made money should they of survived the night...could extend it to Hanley bus station as that place has always been an idiot magnet as well at night time