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Originally posted by Logos23
What the UK and the US constitutes as a "violent crime" differs and thus is reflected in their violent crime statistics. The UK categorizes MORE types of crime as violent crime than the US does.Every other country also has differing idea's on which crimes constitute violent crime and as a result what get's included in the violent crime statistics for that country..a clue to this should have been South Africa showing favourably as having less violent crime than the UK....doe's anybody actually believe that the UK is a more dangerous place to live than South Africa...seriously?!
The way in which crime including violent crime is reported and recorded differs between the UK and the US...
Overall violent crime in England and Wales as dropped by 47% from 1995 to 2010/2011 and at the moment the trend remains pretty much stable...
Even though violent crime as reduced significantly since 1995 the UK's and the rest of the world's PERCEPTION of how much violent crime occurs here goes in the opposite direction and people BELIEVE there is MORE violent crime than there was 17 years ago....but this contradicts the actual violent crime trend's. This mean's the only presumption that can be made is that the public are getting this idea of PERCEIVED increase in violent crime that doesn't exist from somewhere....
I think another reality check is let's not believe everything the media tells us and the manipulation of the truth they exhibit. I'm not here to say that my country doesn't have it's own problem's...but I am sick of the way in which the truth and statistics are twisted.
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Are you SURE UK's definition of crime envelops more crimes than the U.S. does? Where did you get this information from?
And second, why does the EU name UK as the second most violent country in the union?
Originally posted by RedmoonMWC
Originally posted by doubledutch
reply to post by TheMindWar
not true - if someone breaks into your house you can use reasonable force to stop them or get rid of them... if you have a shot gun handy and feel they will kill, you you can use it.
do your research
Really? When did this change?
Farm tenant arrested after burglars shot was 'plagued by break-ins'
03/09/2012
www.telegraph.co.uk...
In the UK, homeowners who defend themselves against burglars and violent criminals are routinely arrested and thrown in prison
www.naturalnews.com...
Tony Martin
en.wikipedia.org...(farmer)
The case prompted David Cameron to announce that home owners and shopkeepers would have the right to protect themselves against burglars and robbers.
Last year, Peter Flanagan, 59, who fatally stabbed a burglar armed with a machete at his home in Salford, Great Manchester, escaped prosecution after the Crown Prosecution Service ruled that he was acting in self defence.
Originally posted by eLPresidente
I know several people that had their (and their loved ones) lives threatened and the only thing that got them out of the dangerous situations was a household firearm.
I'm fortunate enough to not have been put into a situation like that.
Over 2 million people a year use firearms in self-defense.
Originally posted by sajuek
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Are you SURE UK's definition of crime envelops more crimes than the U.S. does? Where did you get this information from?
And second, why does the EU name UK as the second most violent country in the union?
Violent crime in the UK also includes things like vandalism, threat of violence which can be just cases of people having shouting matches in the streets at night. In the evening, most the pubs and clubs in just about every British town open up - there's a strong nightlife here wherever you go compared to the states. Because of powers vested into the Police where they can ask people to move along for being drunk & disorderly or otherwise unpleasant and people who refuse to move, return the area or are picked up for being D&D are booked as violent crime.
Although as long as you don't swear at or swing for your arresting officer you'll probably just get a slap on the wrist and a night in the cells.
I would agree that the UK is probably the most violent member out of North and West Europe however, perhaps Ireland excluded. But that said, these are just about all non-gun owning countries too.
As for UK being the second most violent country in the Union, it's total nonsense. Please keep in mind that the Union includes countries which include Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, Romania all of whom have very corrupt police forces and under-reporting of crimes is a serious issue as well as again, reporting methods being very different.
Despite public perception exacerbated by the Daily Mail and other sensationalist newspapers as well as the human condition to assume yesterday was better than today; there is no crime wave. Almost every violent crime is at a 20+ year low even with reporting techniques and people-police communication being better than ever.
UK Policemen don't carry guns and it's not considered to be a particularly dangerous job and it's not because there is a violent crime problem.
Quoting UN statistics, in 2011 the US had a murder rate of 4.8 people per 100,000 persons. The UK had a murder rate of 1.2 people per 100,000 persons, four times less. How Americans seem to think they have ground to stand on when arguing that the UK, let alone other anti-gun owning states in the EU are less safe is simply laughable.
The points raised in the video are absurd grasping for straw acts and completely null and void to a subjective mind.
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Originally posted by sajuek
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Are you SURE UK's definition of crime envelops more crimes than the U.S. does? Where did you get this information from?
And second, why does the EU name UK as the second most violent country in the union?
Violent crime in the UK also includes things like vandalism, threat of violence which can be just cases of people having shouting matches in the streets at night. In the evening, most the pubs and clubs in just about every British town open up - there's a strong nightlife here wherever you go compared to the states. Because of powers vested into the Police where they can ask people to move along for being drunk & disorderly or otherwise unpleasant and people who refuse to move, return the area or are picked up for being D&D are booked as violent crime.
Although as long as you don't swear at or swing for your arresting officer you'll probably just get a slap on the wrist and a night in the cells.
I would agree that the UK is probably the most violent member out of North and West Europe however, perhaps Ireland excluded. But that said, these are just about all non-gun owning countries too.
As for UK being the second most violent country in the Union, it's total nonsense. Please keep in mind that the Union includes countries which include Italy, Spain, Greece, Poland, Romania all of whom have very corrupt police forces and under-reporting of crimes is a serious issue as well as again, reporting methods being very different.
Despite public perception exacerbated by the Daily Mail and other sensationalist newspapers as well as the human condition to assume yesterday was better than today; there is no crime wave. Almost every violent crime is at a 20+ year low even with reporting techniques and people-police communication being better than ever.
UK Policemen don't carry guns and it's not considered to be a particularly dangerous job and it's not because there is a violent crime problem.
Quoting UN statistics, in 2011 the US had a murder rate of 4.8 people per 100,000 persons. The UK had a murder rate of 1.2 people per 100,000 persons, four times less. How Americans seem to think they have ground to stand on when arguing that the UK, let alone other anti-gun owning states in the EU are less safe is simply laughable.
The points raised in the video are absurd grasping for straw acts and completely null and void to a subjective mind.
So we have another claim that UK's figures of violent crimes envelop more than the U.S.? Are you sure? Where did you get this information from? I'd like to see it as well.
As for the EU's second most violent nation, well the UK is still holding that brilliant title, maybe we can wait for another nation to take it from them. If its nonsense, I think maybe you have to take that up with census producers in the EU. Nations with corrupt police under-reporting violent crimes, I don't think that has much to do with what we're talking about. How are you sure there isn't any under-reporting in by police in the UK? Are they somehow above under-reporting and corruption?
I'd like to know which points raised in the video are, "absurd, grasping for straw acts and completely null and void to a subjective mind" all of them? some of them? which ones?
I hope you're not just mad because EU named the UK second most violent nation in the Union and somebody actually exposed it.
Originally posted by eLPresidente
So we have another claim that UK's figures of violent crimes envelop more than the U.S.? Are you sure? Where did you get this information from? I'd like to see it as well.
As for the EU's second most violent nation, well the UK is still holding that brilliant title, maybe we can wait for another nation to take it from them. If its nonsense, I think maybe you have to take that up with census producers in the EU. Nations with corrupt police under-reporting violent crimes, I don't think that has much to do with what we're talking about. How are you sure there isn't any under-reporting in by police in the UK? Are they somehow above under-reporting and corruption?
I'd like to know which points raised in the video are, "absurd, grasping for straw acts and completely null and void to a subjective mind" all of them? some of them? which ones?
I hope you're not just mad because EU named the UK second most violent nation in the Union and somebody actually exposed it.
Originally posted by sajuek
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Well, all we have for the information on the UK is obviously our internal reporting which was never intended for international comparison. The whole concept is utterly ridiculous but it doesn't take much consideration to oust the conclusions you yanks are making as bogus.
Even if the UK were haven of violent crime, doesn't 2,000 per 100,000 residents seem a little extreme to you? Even the video is suggests that the UK is a third more violent than South Africa. Do you really, honestly believe that this is true?
South Africa has places referred to as what would translate to "Rape Road" literally because people trawl along in cars every day and look for men and woman to sexually assault and murder. Speaking to a friend who used to live in Johannesburg, this was actually a pretty popular method of suicide.
It has a murder rate around 20x our own - somewhere with 30% more violence than South Africa, why do we kill one another 20x less often. Using your logic, the safest place in the world to live would be Bolivia which reported 0 murders in 2011. Do you believe that too?
Anyway, just to destroy this silly video.
1. "FBI statistics are xxx, Piers used xxx" They used different sources which account for crimes between different periods and betwen different dates. For example, Piers' source from the Met office actually counts gun deaths from September to September. Even then, even if the numbers were slightly different it's apples and oranges because even the FBI still paint the same picture; Americans love to shoot at one another.
2. "The US has the most guns but is ONLY the has the 28th highest in the world..." With few exceptions, all of the 27 more violent countries are third world or close enough to it and renowned for their violence. Just about every nation which cares actually has a travel advisory against visiting the three cited as "prime examples" in the video provided. It's a stupid comparison and isn't actually saying anything good about the US at all.
3. "UK is second most violent..." Already addressed. The problem of under-reporting does exist for some crimes e.g. Rape, but corruption and under reporting are not UK issues due to the high level of accountability for the police which involves a highly successful private, third party commission which reviews all of their doings as well as the opportunity to report crime anonymously and not having to face your attackers in court personally if you do not wish to. Amongst many other steps and audits taken to ensure the integrity and comprehensiveness of policework..
4. "Based on this, the UK is the one example we need to keep our crime-busting guns!"
Even if there were any truth in this video - It's still ignoring the rest of Europe and the civil world which, like the UK in reality, beats the US in crime thoroughly and consistently. Many of these countries which are even safer than ours have even stricter gun laws that the UK, and I would welcome a full ban on firearms, not the compromise we currently have today which allows owning a shotgun under some circumstances.edit on 9-1-2013 by sajuek because: (no reason given)
**Edit: Well, I am using UN statistics for murder rates, because, well, I hate to break it to you but the EU doesn't make them for the US And a murder is a murder, unlike what constitutes violent crime there aren't really 2 ways around it.edit on 9-1-2013 by sajuek because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Are you SURE UK's definition of crime envelops more crimes than the U.S. does? Where did you get this information from?
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Stuff.
Originally posted by sajuek
Originally posted by eLPresidente
Stuff.
I don't care about anything that Gary Kleck said. I won't dispute that America has #ed itself so royally it can't possibly solve its gun addiction and that removing them would only put them in the hands of criminals. I will only stand on the fact that the UK is not a violent place. It is not more violent than South Africa. It is not more violent than any US City. And that banning guns was the best step towards making a society I'd want my kids to grow up in our government has ever taken.edit on 10-1-2013 by sajuek because: (no reason given)
BILL OF RIGHTS - AMENDMENT II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.
Rubbish. There is hardly any violent crime around. I'm 44 years old, I've lived in 8 different UK cities and I've never once been the victim of, or witnessed a violent crime.
Originally posted by TheMindWar
At least someone has got it right. My mother in law has been burgled, my daughters boyfreind was mugged and we live in a villiage and and a small town.
Violent crime in the UK is out of control as a direct result of the nanny state trying to domesticate honest and decent people by making them unable to defend themselves.