reply to post by steppenwolf86
I believe that while God knows the choices we will make, the path we will travel, we still choose to travel that path.
As explained in the original post of this thread, that is a logical impossibility according to the nature of "God". You can do absolutely nothing that
he did not foresee and plan for millenia before your ancestors were even thought of. According to the Bible, he punished that which he did not like.
This implies that he will manipulate most situations to his advantage, using whatever means he deems necessary. Therefore, it is likely that
everything you have done and will do, regardless of your motivations, are in line with "God"s will. He designed you to make those choices, he designed
your life to cultivate those choices, and he designed the world to react to your choices as he saw fit.
If "God" is truly omnipotent and omniscient, then this is how the world has proceeded ever since he created it, without exception:
In matters of omniscience and omnipotence, there are only two choices:
1. There is an opportunity at some point along a particular timeline. "God" prevents it.
2. There is an opportunity at some point along a particular timeline. "God" allows it.
At any given moment in any given timeline in any given place, both choices belong to "God" and "God" alone. Any illusion of choice in our lives
results from his having made one of the two choices above. Nothing can happen unless one of those two choices is made.
In this sense, free will is an illusion for every single creature and object that isn't "God". All choices pass through his screening process before
we are ever aware of the opportunity to make those choices, but we think we have free will because we can't miss a choice we never had. And "God",
knowing this, is laughing all the while.
I look at it like a circle of dots. If you see the whole circle, you can choose one at random and count all the way around until you reach it again.
But if you only see a small portion of it at a time, twenty dots become an infinite number because your perception leads you to believe that there is
still more dots to be followed. Because of your limited perception, you remain ignorant of the reality of the circle, and you chase yourself in
circles for your entire existence, because you never realize you're tracing the same path. Now say a loop extends from that circle, leading back
around to it. You follow that loop and you believe you've found an entirely new circle. Sometimes, it changes color just to sustain that illusion. But
it's still the same circle.
That's called the illusion of free will. You see it everywhere, if only you can peek outside the little box of your limited perception. It's possible,
but you have to be willing to accept what you find. If you don't want answers, don't ask questions.
And most people don't want answers anymore. They just want reassurance because they've lost faith in the answers. They want a pillow to cry on and a
song to help them sleep. That's all.
As explained in the above quote, if the Bible is to be taken as fully accurate, then free will is a myth. Everything, absolutely everything, has been
determined from the very beginning. There is no alternative. Either "God", as an omniscient and omnipotent being, has written the entire life story of
this little planet in advance, or he is writing it as he goes along, which means he is not technically omniscient.
Which would mean the Bible is unreliable as a spiritual authority. Which would mean, in reality, we're back to square one regarding the nature of our
world predominant higher power. Enter the collapse of the Vatican, religious anarchy, riots and chaos as zealots everywhere fight each over out of
sheer confusion and despair and denial, so on and so forth. In short, it's game over, newbs.
And you wonder why I don't trust the Vatican to be honest? It's just too much trouble, far more trouble than the truth is really worth to their
precious standing as far as politics and worldly influence goes. Nope. Lies are much more profitable, and much easier to manage. Truth doesn't make
money. Good stories make money. And if you work it right, good stories can even rack up the willing souls of desperate men. After that, you run the
risk of the men you duped taking over in the name of this grand vision you bribed them with, completely hijacking the operation and initiating an
infinite loop of meaningless reverence. Enter endless generations of mindless drones with a single complex function: push button, receive bacon. Do
what you're told, receive money and additional assets for yourself and family. Do that long enough, and no one even remembers freedom. And no one
wants it. Slavery is so much easier. Everything is taken care of.
And when that happens, again: Game over. Unless, of course, you're Sam Flynn.
edit on 9-1-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)