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But, it is possible Father could have said person here to teach others in an indirect way. For without evil, how could one appreciate good.
I haven't read the OP yet, but I have to say that that's the funniest and most insightful thread TITLE I've ever seen, Part 2 - ya gotta be kidding "A logical problem with "Hell": Part 2" that's freaking hilarious! I love it!
Personally, and as a true Christian who understands that God loves ALL his children, I'd rather not read or participate any further other than to say that, I hope you'll forgive me
I will say this much. A lot of people are in hell already, even in this life (if that weren't bad enough). By the grace of God, somehow, to the degree that I've been forgiven, forgive them also in the name of Jesus Chrsit, and if need be, re-institute the karmic circle, which is a good law and the one that Jesus really preached, but with an arrow pointing heavenwards, and from heaven, earthwards. Yes there are quotes of him warning us about destruction, but in making himself the substitution, and transcending it, and sharing the whole treasure with us, for free, tell me where is the hell in that? And it's not an exclusive proposition either. "Love one another as I have loved you." That's a reasonable, all-inclusive invitation to join him in his love. There is no hell there nor the possibility of hell, and it's formative and functional no matter what you believe or think about it, the only difference being that those who receive it and appropriate it (grok it) get to leave hell right away! He outdid himself don't you see? What's the word.. Hallelujah?
Good is always good for goodness' sake, so to speak. It's it's own intrinsic reward. I just don't see the evil there either.. in other words we don't then need to go searching for the evil by which to know the good as good. We all know quality when we see it and feel it. Even Socrates would have agreed with this
To carve up the whole of existence in this way (good vs. evil) is utterly absurd and patently ridiculous.
Love conquers all simply because it's reasonable, and the only thing worth doing when you come to the unconditioned ground of all being and becoming, it's the only thing that makes sense, but not because it's the opposite of hatred. That's funny.
Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by Akragon
I have often argued that, because of God's omniscience, he knew before he created the universe that someday hell would exist.
In fact, he knew before he created the universe that someday I would exist and that I would reject his teachings thereby sealing my fate in hell.
He knew this and still created the universe. So my fate was sealed either way. It cannot be a "choice" on my part if God had prior knowledge of what would take place.
His act of creating the universe set in motion the singular path the cosmos would take to arrive at my birth and eventual damnation. For me to have had free choice, then God would have to have no pre-existing knowledge of the path the universe would take. But, then he would not be omniscient, and if he is not omniscient...he is not God.
The Christian religion is not grounded in logic.
Originally posted by Akragon
And you didn't want to participate....
Originally posted by logical7
I believe in hell. Not exactly the christian one but ok.
Let me try and explain how i see it, but God knows best.
Say God made 100 souls, and send them on earth, their free wills will interact and give rise to say 10 ending up in hell, God knew it, but if He doesnt make that 10 then the 90 will interact and 9 will still go to hell.
The free will leads to hell.
But God cant be blamed, everyone gets a fair chance, just God knows who will choose what.
So the only way to avoid hell was not to give free will or not to make humans at all.
The ones going to hell cant complain after they reject God, deny doing good, commit sins etc after being warned as to what it will lead to. They are literally choosing Hell. And God gave free will dint He?
Originally posted by Akragon
IF God never made hell in the first place there would be no need to avoid it...
The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let him who hears say, "Come!" Whoever is thirsty, let him come; and whoever wishes, let him take the free gift of the water of life.
~ Revelation 22:17
God is love right? Torture is not love... Nor is fear... There might be a place for people that don't learn their lessons.... but hell isn't one of them...