A great point for Intelligent design! And I'm an atheist.

Originally posted by trysts
Some people don't want fantasies for escaping reality. Some of us are all grown up now, and live in a world with a past, present, and future. You float about "offering" fantasy of some selfish "now" which amounts to a coma.

What is 'the future' if it is not a fantasy? Has anyone seen the future? People imagine a future but there is no future in reality. When you look into the mind it is all fantasy. Only the eyes and ears can see and hear what is real. The eyes and ears are always present. The mind is elsewhere living in fantasy land.
The mind with it's stories can lead one into believing all sorts of things that are not true.

Reality is what is here now. This is about as real as it gets, is it not? Only you can verify it though. You cannot say for sure that the big bang happened or that there were dinosaurs, but you can say that this, whatever 'this' is, is real.

The future has not happened anywhere because there is nothing beyond this point so any future you are aware of is mindmade (fantasy).

reply to post by Itisnowagain


When a drone is hovering over a family in Afghanistan, you can tell them about how the future doesn't exist, but be quick about it.

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

When a drone is hovering over a family in Afghanistan, you can tell them about how the future doesn't exist, but be quick about it.

Stories of 'when' and 'other people somewhere else'. Stories of drama and suffering. How do you really feel? This is life - how does it feel? It must feel awful to be so full of stories of suffering. Spreading the suffering because it is all you know.
What do you know about people in Afghanistan? And what can you do about the play of life? Suffer and spread it and tell people that suffering is compulsory.
I am telling people that suffering is not compulsory and that there is a way out. If you wish to continue suffering that is up to you.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I've been reading you for months, notnowgain, and I've come to the conclusion that you live in so much fear that you imagine you've escaped from it. I don't live in fear, I feel sorrow. I feel many many of emotions. I'm alive. I don't know what you are, but your "philosophy of now" is ridiculous. You remind me of some Jim Jones-type character. Very untrustworthy, in my view.

reply to post by trysts


Thank you for your opinion.
I used to suffer but i found freedom, i can only share what is known here.

What i speak is very threatening for the mind and envokes anger and fear because it completely throws it off balance. It thought it knew something but it's ideas and beliefs and projections are being seen through and there is nothing left to hang onto. It can be terrifying.

There really is nothing but this. But the mind would have you believe otherwise. Peace is right here but the mind leads you elsewhere.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


That's what I mean. Peace is an escape. You can put your head in the sand, but some of us don't want to. We want to know. We want to feel. We don't want to escape. We want it to change. Nothing will change with your notion of indifference. I want to know the truth, not some silly dream world. I'll dream when I'm asleep, thank you very much.

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

That's what I mean. Peace is an escape. You can put your head in the sand, but some of us don't want to. We want to know. We want to feel. We don't want to escape. We want it to change. Nothing will change with your notion of indifference. I want to know the truth, not some silly dream world. I'll dream when I'm asleep, thank you very much.

You are dreaming now of 'other'. You want 'other'. You have something else in mind.
God said worship no 'other' because if you do you will suffer. You suffer from mind made delusion. Always unhappy with what is will not bring peace or joy. It is your confusion that makes you suffer because you want something that is not.
The truth is right here and right now - this is the glory of God but the mind can't see or hear it because it wants something that is not here - this is insanity!! The mind has you believing in illusions and you fight with those illusions and want to cure something that is not broken.

Tell me just one thing that you can do to change the world.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


I care about it. That's how the world changes.

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I care about it. That's how the world changes.

I love what is present. I embrace what is appearing presently. Conscious contact with what is happening, in this, the presence. Kindness in the here and now. Seeing the happening as it is happening.

reply to post by Itisnowagain


No, "now" is indifferent. "Now" doesn't know what has happened. "Now" doesn't learn, so it doesn't change anything. "Now" has no foresight.

Originally posted by Raelsatu
Very true. When things are highly complex & structured on the micro-scale, it's simply a part of nature & the progression of evolution. Yet when we observe so much else, complexity and structure are signs of intelligent design. All that we create as humans and have a connection with (architecture, electronics, tools, etc) are byproducts of intelligent design; I honestly think intelligent design in inherent in nature & existence. That doesn't mean it's X deity who designed anything. Simply putting it out there that to dismiss intelligent design is as narrow-minded as a any other dogma asserting their truths.

Whom designed nature. Nature designed itself in perfect sycronisity to itself? As in you designed your live birth family to be born into; you think otherwise- you are a total accident of birth; as in your death , knowing every facette (french) every breath you take you know what you will be doing future past. Intelligent design is not relegated to a God figure. It is the x dieties prodgeny that carries the intelligent design forward.

Progress of evolution? If that were so, someone within this thread made a very good point. Why do we not have the eyes of an Eagle, Owl, the smelling capability of a bloodhound? Why Have Sharks 300 Million Years Old chucked the notion "we should have evolved by now" And Do Not Rule the Planet in perpetuity?

reply to post by Itisnowagain


Sorry, Itisnowagain. I just reread my post and it comes across like I'm accusing you of not living in the here and now, when I was simply trying to be verbally animated with my thoughts. Again, I'm sorry. I'm sure that most of the people here at ATS are good people doing their best to survive in this world. Though I disagree with some of your ideas, I do not in any way consider you to be a disagreeable person.

It is you that is suffering.

It's not that I am suffering. It's that the world of man has, is, and always will suffer because we are what we are - human. When I hear of people (billions of them) preaching that love is the answer, what I'm actually hearing is wishful thinking. Whether we are a random freak of nature or whether we are eternal beings of light, we must take care of where we find ourselves now, and that means taking physical action against the growing number of those who would step on the majority for their own selfish desires.

Originally posted by sacgamer25

I know by your posts that you are inherently a good person.

Anything that is not Chaos is intelligence. Believing anything less is Chaos. You are correct, not only do they prove what I am saying; they admit that nothing else would be proof.

No one expects a serious of chaotic blips to have been originated by intelligence. Yet for some reason when we think about God atheist believe that intelligence came from Chaos.

You once said why do we need God to know what is good? Nothing intelligent can come from Chaos.
I would encourage you to just believe in something bigger even if it makes no since. Because something that we don't understand is better than believing in chaos.

When you said why we need God to love, you prove that you know love. You also prove that we have free will to choose love. And from your intelligent observation religion does not teach love. It teaches separation, judgment and hate.

You are correct this is what religion teaches, but you don't have to believe in religion to believe in God.

Because you believe in love and all truth is found in love, than you must believe in the author of that love. It takes more intelligence to perform even one act of love than it does to perform 1000 acts of chaos.

I do believe that I am a man who has been given a gift from God and I have much more I could share with you. But this is not the thead for that.

If you are not ready to hear more, hold on to what you have found, for love and God will save you.

Hi Sacgamer, I may have given you the wrong idea. In no way do I believe in a god (perfect, all-knowing, and all-powerful). I'm saying that it's not impossible for there to be an intelligent designer. Remember, the failed nuclear plants had an intelligent designer. The atom bomb had an intelligent designer.

One of the most often used words by the intelligent designer I'm thinking of would be "Whoops!"

Originally posted by Itisnowagain

Originally posted by trysts
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

I care about it. That's how the world changes.

I love what is present. I embrace what is appearing presently. Conscious contact with what is happening, in this, the presence. Kindness in the here and now. Seeing the happening as it is happening.

edit on 12-1-2013 by Itisnowagain because: (no reason given)

Has anyone noticed that everything is brighter? The only way to describe it is that sun energy is magnified? Something is going on- the 5th dimension is here recognise oddities in your now real world imagined.

reply to post by jiggerj


I know you are agnostic. You have always been because you don't have proof. I was just telling you to keep ahold of that and love for now. The rest was maybe for you later in life or someone else today, I don't really know.

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

It is you that is suffering.

It's not that I am suffering. It's that the world of man has, is, and always will suffer because we are what we are - human. When I hear of people (billions of them) preaching that love is the answer, what I'm actually hearing is wishful thinking. Whether we are a random freak of nature or whether we are eternal beings of light, we must take care of where we find ourselves now, and that means taking physical action against the growing number of those who would step on the majority for their own selfish desires.

The human condition is to suffer. The suffering happens because one feels incomplete, it is energetic, it's a feeling deep inside that feels like something is missing, something is lost. Humans feel isolated and alien in this world. This feeling gives the mind something to cure, the mind feels that if it gets something it can fill up the feeling of emptiness so it searches for that which will complete it. It looks in time for the end of suffering, it looks outside itself for that which will complete itself. But it is an endless search because if it is not with you how can you ever get to it, tomorrow never comes. The search is for the final resting place.

The bible story is about this feeling of separation that humans feel. Adam was separated from God in the story (bible) by listening to the serpent (the speaking mind). He told Adam that he could become like God and this made Adam believe he was separate from God. From that day on Adam wanted to return to God not realizing that the serpent was decieving him. Nothing is separate.
The only cure to human suffering is the realization of oneness. The human you believe you are that is assumed separate from everything does not exist in reality. This moment is one and is being done and you are just an expression of oneness. All the time humans worry about doing life and it is unnecessary. They worry about things they have absolutely no control over. They watch the tv with it's horrific images and fill themselves with pain and tell everyone how awful everything is.

The body is here and now always and the mind is full of stories it has lapped up and is full of fear for the future and guilt from the past and it is feeding the body full of hormones and chemicals that harm the body and cause discomfort (anxiety and other disorders caused by mental unhealth/dis-ease). The body which recieves sensation is ignored by most unless there is pain and then even that wants to be escaped.
The body is where life is, the body is what feels aliveness but humans spend a life time in their minds and miss life (aliveness) completely. If they could feel life they would not be suffering but they 'think' life.

As you say " we must take care of where we find ourselves now". Look around 'now' at what is present, look at what is appearing as reality but don't believe the serpent (speaking mind), it is deceptive. The light of consciousness is the light that is appearing presently.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The suffering happens because one feels incomplete, it is energetic, it's a feeling deep inside that feels like something is missing, something is lost.

That whole post was so well written that I almost want to believe it.

I do believe that those who seek and need a god feel exactly as you have described. I, and other atheists, I'm sure, don't feel this incompleteness you speak of. We look at ourselves as 100% human, and we appreciate the rich smorgasbord of emotions that the brain has to offer. We accept that there will be pain and depression because we know it is not humanly possible to live in joy, or any other state, over an extended period of time. And, thanks to your inspiration I will now create a new thread on that topic.

reply to post by jiggerj


Please watch and listen to what this man says about transcending the human condition of suffering:
youtu.be...

Originally posted by jiggerj
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

We accept that there will be pain and depression because we know it is not humanly possible to live in joy, or any other state, over an extended period of time. And, thanks to your inspiration I will now create a new thread on that topic.

States come and go. Those states that come and go are witnessed by what you are - awareness. Awareness is not a state and is always present and never changing. When you find that you are awareness, you will find peace and joy is your natural underlying condition with passing states, events, emotions, sounds and colours.
The human is lead to believe that they are the body and the mind, but the body and the mind are witnessed by awareness.

The end of suffering happens when you find out what you really are. It is no more than a case of misidentification. Humans are ensnared in the mind and body but all it takes to free yourself is to notice that you are a witness of the mind and body (sensations). When one starts to witness (watch) the mind and sensations one is free. The watching and witnessing can only be done presently and one will notice that all that arises passes by. One realizes that what they are is the clear bright sky with clouds going past.

Awareness is always here but it is rarely noticed. Awareness is seeing and hearing all that arises. You are awareness, you are aware of the mind speaking, you are aware of sensations in the body and you are aware of vision and smells etc. The things that are seen are easy to notice. But the thing that is seeing is hidden - it is awareness. Know thyself as pure awareness with apparent appearances appearing and disappearing.

The truth is hidden in plain sight.
“What we are looking for is what is looking.” St. Francis of Assisi

reply to post by Itisnowagain

One realizes that what they are is the clear bright sky with clouds going past.

Just one comment before I watch the link you provided.

Don't you find your description of awareness a bit frightening? I do. A LOT!