It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
reply to post by ADVISOR
Nope, I just don't like the british in Ireland, hence Northern Ireland. Unless I am confused as to history.
I am a supporter of a one Ireland cause,
The occupation has gone on long enough
Nope, I just don't like the british in Ireland,
hence Northern Ireland
Ireland is one country
there should be no north and south
Originally posted by Freeborn
And what has a song about hurling got to do with the subject in hand?
Do you know what hurling is?
....would like to say I am sorry for my comment, and apologize directly.
.... I explained my self best I could. My intentions are not hostile or pro IRA, perhaps misguided and obviously ignorant, but if I may requote a sentence used;
do not wish to start off on the wrong foot with you also, and hope the following can also clarify my steping in as I did. Or not, I only hope you read through this.
Let me restart and begin with a bit on myself, I want to share, you don't have to.
My ancestors were Vikings whom adopted the Celtic culture, I'm certain you may be familiar with that history.
Having an armigerous family, and an interest in history, it didn't take me long to acquire that same appreciation.
To me, I see the whole of Éire, as one country. Not as a north or south...perhaps an archaic sentiment...I know, but still.
Having been lucky enough to have felt her rain fall upon me, while stopping there during deployment, it was as a blessing.
You see, to me Ireland still holds a romantic place in my heart, despite the bloodshed...
I may be born and raised in America, but my soul longs for those lands, of Celtic legend.
It can not be conveyed in mere words, but that I hope shows, from where I come in this matter.
I've read it as such and believe it to be true;
Three strange things in the world:
loving war more than peace,
loving excess more than sufficiency,
and loving falsehood more than truth.
Thank you for your time, and patience.
ADVISOR
Originally posted by ADVISOR
Originally posted by Freeborn
And what has a song about hurling got to do with the subject in hand?
Do you know what hurling is?
Was trying to figure out the same about the IRA bit...
I see I've drawn yet more fire to myself, foot in mouth syndrome has gotten me good this time.
lol
I honestly must admit I posted under a misguided perception, formed in my own mind that Ireland is one country. No north or south...
To quote a statement to another, I will share here, despite what it may bring;
....would like to say I am sorry for my comment, and apologize directly.
.... I explained my self best I could. My intentions are not hostile or pro IRA, perhaps misguided and obviously ignorant, but if I may requote a sentence used;
do not wish to start off on the wrong foot with you also, and hope the following can also clarify my steping in as I did. Or not, I only hope you read through this.
Let me restart and begin with a bit on myself, I want to share, you don't have to.
My ancestors were Vikings whom adopted the Celtic culture, I'm certain you may be familiar with that history.
Having an armigerous family, and an interest in history, it didn't take me long to acquire that same appreciation.
To me, I see the whole of Éire, as one country. Not as a north or south...perhaps an archaic sentiment...I know, but still.
Having been lucky enough to have felt her rain fall upon me, while stopping there during deployment, it was as a blessing.
You see, to me Ireland still holds a romantic place in my heart, despite the bloodshed...
I may be born and raised in America, but my soul longs for those lands, of Celtic legend.
It can not be conveyed in mere words, but that I hope shows, from where I come in this matter.
I've read it as such and believe it to be true;
Three strange things in the world:
loving war more than peace,
loving excess more than sufficiency,
and loving falsehood more than truth.
Thank you for your time, and patience.
ADVISOR
With that, I bow out of this thread and leave it to those whom it regards.
Originally posted by EvanB
Northern Ireland is VERY much part of Great Britain.. The vast majority of the people of Ulster want to remain British and not become a part of the Republic.. This now includes a lot of Catholics who have seen the economy of the Republic torn apart due to the collapsing EU and Euro dollar..
Northern Ireland is also self governing with its own parliament and Westminster has hardly a say in any Northern Irish affairs, though Ulster plays a full and active role in UK life including the Armed Forces..
In my experience most Protestants are only religious by name only however a lot are.. The Loyalist community (protestant) in my experience are UBER British.. They take their loyalism VERY seriously and is the only part of the UK where you will see the Union Jack fly from every house.. Even the curbs on the roads are painted red white and blue!.. At the end of the night in pubs you would be made to stand and sing God save the queen or get your head kicked in!
In Catholic areas it is the reverse.. Tricolour flags everywhere.. The curbs painted in the tri colours.... You are left with no illusions what area you are in.. And dont get me started on marching season! Lol
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
From what I've been able to gather, prior to the riots, the UK Flag was flown over the town hall. Someone decided to stop flying the flag. Since Northern Ireland has two very vocal groups (1 being pro British, 1 being Pro Irish), the Pro British Group got upset that the Union Jack was lowered and staged protests. The protests turned violent with the help of union leaders. So more police were called in, and then the rock throwing, molatov cocktail throwing started and its lasted for 6 nights in a row.
I'm sure the British/Irish ATS members can go into greater detail but from an outsider point of view and I am not taking sides because I don't know the whole story just what I've been able to read on the internet reports. I hoped that helped.
That's what it sounded like to me. Have more info as well, down lower. Appreciated! I know there has been unrest there for a long time.
Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
It is a long sorry story Im afraid.. But what it amounts too is that in Nothern Ireland you have two camps: the Protestants who class themselves as British.. And Catholics who class themselves as Irish..
The Catholics were treated as second class citizens.. There was even legislation in the Northern Irish parliament that basically was a form of apartheid against the Catholics.. It came to a head in the late 60's when a peaceful protest was ambushed by the police.. This caused mass riots thus the Army was sent in to keep both sides apart... Things very quickly deterorated as the Catholics saw us as an occupying force and started to fight us.. The loyalist also responded by setting up their own paramilitary organisations.. Of which the UVF is one of...
What is not commonly known however is that both sides paramilitaries evolved into criminal gangs that held their respective communities to ransom by fear and intimidation.. They were funded by naive Americans who thought they were helping out their ancestral people.. But in reality they were lining the pockets of mafia type organisations..
Now.. Because of the peace treaty.. These organisations have lost much power and prestige.. And they want it back.. Plus the economic situation draws people to their cause..
So it seems to be as much a religious matter as a political one. I did have some idea that there was a lot of criminal activity, from both sides. So, we have all this mess, and it settles down, and now people want to stir it up again? Wow.... Wouldn't it be nice if leadership (any, not just there) cared more about what was best for their people, rather than how much power and control they had?
Originally posted by EvanB
Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by EvanB
Pardon my stupidity but are you saying Ireland is made up of 2 countries?
I didn't know about this.
Yes
Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland
So, what involvement, if any, does Great Britain have there? Why would they be flying a British flag, if these are separate countries? I have to say, as one not Catholic, I tend to side more with the Irish on this one. It's their land, and their choice how they worship. Bloodlines do play in that, too, as there is a lot of Scotch/Irish in my family. I still get annoyed that Scotland isn't independent. There should be a better way than fighting and riots, though. With the temperaments in that part of the world (my ancestors, and I have the temper, too!), that just makes things worse and worse.
Appreciate the info.
Originally posted by biggilo
You say 'It's their land' How so? My ancestors have lived here 800 years, how does this give someone else the right to it?
And as for 'their choice how they worship' you do realise that under UK rule you have the right to worship as you please, it is the IRISH side who try to dictate how we worship.. The 'Republicans (or Irish if you prefer) have spent the past 50 years ethnically cleansing people who don't follow their way of Christianity (Catholicism) out of Northern Ireland.
If you care to see past terrorist propaganda and look for the TRUTH you will see that Catholics were never intimidated in their worship, always welcomed into Protestant communities if they moved there and were welcomed into organisations such as the RUC.
Originally posted by biggilo
When you say 'Scotch Irish' are you perhaps one of these foreigners who is confused about their heritage? The Northern Irish people are ethnically referred to as 'Ulster Scots', most Scottish who settled Ireland settled it in the North East, i.e Northern Ireland and as an example, many of the USAs founding fathers and subsequent Presidents were 'Ulster Scots'.
It is quite common for this mistake to happen, yet I still find even when corrected as it doesn't suit their 'views' that people tend to ignore this fact and carry on as if they are 'Irish'
Originally posted by biggilo
But, hey after 34 years on this planet I know that people don't care about the truth in Northern Ireland, the truth isn't fashionable enough, much more cool to support the poor old terrorist out trying to bomb children on their way to a Christmas lunch with their parents.
Bomb attack on Police mans familyedit on 10-1-2013 by biggilo because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by tdk84
You do realise why Scotland isn't independent? The final union we have today wasn't a hostile merger.
1707 The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland united to form one Kingdom. This is because we shared a monarchy and King James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne. In turn a union of two separate Parliaments was also made. Both political establishments came to support the cause.
Don't quote me on this but I believe the main reason for the merger from Scotland's point of view was due to trade within the empire which meant ££££.edit on 10-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Originally posted by tdk84
You do realise why Scotland isn't independent? The final union we have today wasn't a hostile merger.
1707 The Kingdom of England and the Kingdom of Scotland united to form one Kingdom. This is because we shared a monarchy and King James VI of Scotland inherited the English throne. In turn a union of two separate Parliaments was also made. Both political establishments came to support the cause.
Don't quote me on this but I believe the main reason for the merger from Scotland's point of view was due to trade within the empire which meant ££££.edit on 10-1-2013 by tdk84 because: (no reason given)
I have heard conflicting stories on that one. There was certainly some bad blood there in the past, which (from comments I have heard from Scottish people on another site) isn't all forgotten. I always had the idea that they were one because the English were not defeated and the bloodshed was too high. I could easily be mistaken, though. Finding unbiased history these days is difficult, and that goes for that of my country as well. These days, what they teach kids in school is nothing like what we learned when I was a child. Seems we get one over simplified version or another, depending on the bias of the person offering it.
Originally posted by tdk84
That's because it started as a hostile takeover. Ironic that it was finally a Scotsman who united us. But anyway we digress slightly.
Originally posted by biggilo
reply to post by LadyGreenEyes
If you really want to get down to it, the truth of the matter is there is a lot of small minded little bigots running around Ireland (as a whole). From all communities.
The Republicans love nothing more than offending Unionists in any way they can think of as well as murdering, bombing them etc.
Orangemen and Loyalists like running around banging drums to annoy and sometimes intimidate Republicans.
In the Republic of Ireland the Catholic church has way too much power and say
Woman dies at Galway Hospital
And, as for Northern Ireland, well we are second only to the USA in the number of people per head who believe in creationism thanks to all the 'hard line' protestants ('Free Presbyterians' for example)
With all these religious fanatics and politicised bigots running around there truly isn't going to be a resolution to all this without some sort of bloodshed unfortunately.