Charlie Manson, the death of the Counter-Culture, and the birth of false flag murders

The scene is the sixties, where an idealistic movement of the youth is at it's peak. Probably the peak of free thought and individualism in America. Peace, and brotherhood reigned. To quote Hunter S. Thompson, it was
the high water mark of the fight against the forces of old and evil.

Nothing good lasts forever, though.
1969: A brutal series of murders are committed in California, in the heart of the hippie community. All of the killings are made out to look as anti-authoritarian as possible. "Death to pigs" scrawled on the walls in blood. When the ichor and blood cleared, amongst the dead lay Roman Polanski's wife cut to pieces.

The cops smell blood, and someone's got to go down for this. And they have a good idea who: A man who virtually represented what they thought of as the enemy. Charles Milles Manson, a man living away from the establishment in a commune. A musician, an aficionado of lysergic acid di-amide, and an all around scraggly kind of guy.

This fellow, Manson, was perfect in their eyes to use as the suspect for these murders. A man who such embodied the hippie culture. A nobody, who none would miss. An orphan.

It was a way to indict the entire hippie culture by proxy, and Nixon was all too glad to do such a thing. He declared Manson guilty in the press before the verdict was even out.

You want to know how to distract the public from something? Well, a sensational trial of the century is a great way to do it. And that's what the public got.

reply to post by Grifter42


While I agree that the Mason Family Murders was a turning point, I think you might want to at least take a quick glance of Charlies history, notably the various times he was imprisoned. This was a delusion, violent man.

So lets take your post to the conclusion you left out....

Who actually committed the murders? the government? Because in your title you used the term False Flag, and that refers to governments attacking themselves to blame on a enemy.

So... the government killed all those people to what end? To end the "60's" ? I don't see the pay off.

The Manson family is exactly what you should expect to get when you have a bunch of uneducated kids living in the desert on acid.

This fellow, Manson, was perfect in their eyes to use as the suspect for these murders. A man who such embodied the hippie culture. A nobody, who none would miss. An orphan.

Actually, Manson would be more of a beatnik than a hippy.

reply to post by phishyblankwaters


Small time crook, yes. Mastermind of some huge plot? He wasn't the type. Seems to me the Establishment needed a patsy that embodied the current enemy of the establishment. Like how when they set Oswald up, they did it because he had been to the Soviet Union. He had the characteristics the Man needed to put the blame on the hippie movement.

Originally posted by Grifter42
It was a way to indict the entire hippie culture by proxy, and Nixon was all too glad to do such a thing. He declared Manson guilty in the press before the verdict was even out.
You want to know how to distract the public from something? Well, a sensational trial of the century is a great way to do it. And that's what the public got.

I recommend the following read. Not quite sure what to make of it, though:Inside The LC: The Strange but Mostly True Story of Laurel Canyon and the Birth of the Hippie Generation

reply to post by Grifter42


Mastermind? no, clearly not. Crazy acid filled, mentally disturbed man, yes! And honestly, the "plot" isn't much of a work of art either. His plan was to make a music album that would spark chaos and revolution. The murders, apparently, where done to try to instigate a race war.

I'm with you on this much, the entire thing was used against the "hippy" movement, can't dispute that at all. But I don't see it as a false flag, I see it as them taking the opportunity presented to them, Manson brainwashed a bunch of stoned kids into murdering people. From all reports, while being completely insane, the man is very engaging, Hitler-esque in his ability to capture your attention, and that's without being stoned out of your skull on lsd.

I believe the murders happened because of him, and he is just as guilty as those who committed them, the only conspiracy i see was how, after the fact, it was used for an agenda, but that's how governments work.

Indeed, you bringing up Oswald plays into that, if you believe he was involved or just a patsy, he was former military, went to Russia apparently trying to defect, and came back to the US basically a wanna be communist. All of that is clearly documented.

the government used that situation to their advantage, either by creating it in the first place, or by using it after the fact.

To me, the Manson Murders were the death of the infancy of the counter culture movement. Daycare was over, now it's time to grow up and be realistic about things. the counter culture is alive and well, it's just evolved into something that actually fits into society instead of trying to replace it outright.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I've read all about the whole ordeal. Maybe Tex Watson did kill those people. But it wasn't about some grand vision, or an attempt to bring on a race war like Bugliosi told folks it was to make it sell papers better. If Tex Watson killed those folks, it was over a drug deal gone bad. And as to Phishy's claims that the counter culture movement grew up, I disagree. The corporate stranglehold has grown ever-tighter, and Julian Assange is no Abbie Hoffman or Hunter S. Thompson.

Counter culture used to show the Man what it meant to jerk the People around. The Weather Underground, the Symbionese Liberation Army. Now, it's just a bunch of kids on computers. The Occupy Wall Street movement's fizzled out. Folks ought to be careful, or one day we'll wake up and everyone who asked questions or acted out is gonna come home with a big dopey grin and a scar on their skull over their frontal lobe.

reply to post by Grifter42


Just out of curiousity, how old are you Grifter? Do you come from that time period/culture? I would just like to hear any other light you may be able to throw on the subject if you are.

reply to post by wtbengineer


You're only as old as you think you are. It's a frame of mind. I was born the year they shot Kennedy. I was born the year the National Guard shot down them kids at Kent State. I was born when the ATF committed the atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

And to the generation that's being raised up now, you don't have to come out as some airheaded, dubstep listening fool on the hill. Thinking isn't restricted to those born in a particular year. Sure, it helps, not being raised in the greatest era of consumeristic indoctrination society has ever known. But it's not a necessity.

reply to post by Grifter42


I agree with everything you say. I just basically wanted a point of reference; an idea of where you come from. It looks like I am 4-5 years older than you so that puts us pretty firmly in the same place as far as those things go I'd say.

Originally posted by Grifter42
reply to post by wtbengineer

 

You're only as old as you think you are. It's a frame of mind. I was born the year they shot Kennedy. I was born the year the National Guard shot down them kids at Kent State. I was born when the ATF committed the atrocities at Waco and Ruby Ridge.

I quite disagree. One might be very knowledgeable about a given series of events, but one cannot say they have lived it unless they experienced the whole of the culture at the time...the zeitgeist, to use a much abused term.

So you have not answered the query on your age, and thereby, your perspective on the matter at hand.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


I guess I went easy on him for that... I try not to ruffle feathers on here. Sometimes you can't help it though.

Originally posted by wtbengineer
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck

 

I guess I went easy on him for that... I try not to ruffle feathers on here. Sometimes you can't help it though.

Actually, I'm not trying to to aggravate anyone. I was in public school when Kennedy was shot, and it factored into a larger societal concern that only one who had duck and cover films, Conelrad PSAs, and drank powdered milk out of fear of strontium 90, would understand. And even in Canada, Kent State came off like a personal assault on all of our hopes and aspirations. Come Waco, I was concerned with other matters...but you get my drift. Our Grifter may well share these experiences...I'm not going after him, just wondering as well, what direction his observations are coming from.

Open your eyes real wide! They are creating an archetype and image, so they can label and associate whoever they want with that archetype and then more easily 'dispose' of them. Thanks for this thread, much more insightful than I feel most will realize..

Manson was a small time hustler who happened to have a magnetic personality. Not a hippie at all, he was too mean and self-centered to be labeled a hippie. Did he organize anti-war marches? No. Did he march with the civil rights crowd, nope. Did he sit back and smoke grass all day and look at the sky wander by. No. He gathered together a bunch of very weak-minded women and a few men, youngsters who were just exploring sexuality and consciusness expansion, and manipulated them until they thought he was Christ returned with an attitude. The people who said he was part of the '60s culture insulted hundreds of thousands of the best people no money could buy, and I wish more members of the media and entertainment industry at the time would have made that point very clear to the public.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck


Didn't mean to imply that you were, sorry.

reply to post by Aleister


Very well put sir.

reply to post by Aleister


You're getting close to the point I was trying to make. He did do a lot of damage to the hippie community, whether or not he was even truly one of them. It was akin to the amount of backlash gun manufacturers get every time some nut-job shoots up a public place. But conveniently directed at the hippie community. The Beatnik community didn't get the backlash. The Beatniks had grown up by that time.To quote Steely Dan, they'd joined the human race. Some things will never change.

Originally posted by Grifter42
reply to post by Aleister

 

It was akin to the amount of backlash gun manufacturers get every time some nut-job shoots up a public place. But conveniently directed at the hippie community.

Not 'convenient coincidence', but designed intelligently to fit an agenda. To get back to my original response a few posts above, an archetype is being created in the public mind - the archetype of the 'dangerously mentally ill' the people with 'manic, wide eye looks on their faces' ( the repetitive use of these 'lone gunmen' and manson types having wide eyes in their photos most prevalently used in the media )..

To get back to the topic of this thread, the hippy movement started out genuine! They were good people who wanted to be natural and basically were a threat to the large corrupt system of society and it's control over people. It is well known how '___' was created and then introduced into the hippy community, spread in such a conspiracy manner as to consume the entire movement - hence, making it much easier to lable a genuine group of freethinkers as simply 'druggies'..
The manson relation to the hippies, I see as related in such a manner and while you consider it coincidence or "convenience" - I see CONSPIRACY ( noting all the other things about Manson, and all other related incidents ), again thanks for the thread and it is much more relevant than I feel many will realize..

reply to post by indigothefish


The Government created Manson. If not deliberately, accidentally. He was in and out of prison for most of his life, and is a child of the prison-industrial complex. The government trained him and let him loose in the world. That's their responsibility. And he came in handy to the government, and the media. Because the government truly does not care about it's citizens if it can make their incarceration or death serve it's agenda.

reply to post by Grifter42


said it better than I could have!