Who Won The Debate Morgan Or Jones?

Someone smarter and more rational than Jones should get on that national stage and debate Piers Morgan. Hasnt Larry Pratt (GOA) been on? The debate between a gun opponent and proponent should go along these lines:

Gun Opponent,GO; Too many guns lead to too many deaths; the assault rifles with high cap magazines are the problem and with the recent mass shootings something has to be done.
Gun Proponent, GP; These mass shootings are the result of mad men in gun free zones who are not allowed to have any guns. Most crimes are committed by handguns not assault rifles. Statistics prove that there is less violent crime where citizens are allowed to CC. Altho we have an individual and inalienable right to self defense at home and away the rationale of the Founders in establishing the Second Amendment was for the citizens (individually and collectively) to protect against tyranny in government (and quote directly from the founding fathers).

Statistics and the direct quotes of the authors of the Bill of Rights really cant be debated with...the appeal of the counter point is strictly emotional

On a related note: did anyone hear the interview on Entertainment Tonight of Arnold Schwartzenegger and his opinion on Gun Control (I missed it)?

Piers Morgan knew what he was doing - he put AJ on there to prove a point and boy did AJ deliver. Morgan's sole purpose was to portray a rabid gun owner as a loon - he knew AJ would behave like he did. Christ, it was as if Morgan was dealing with a toddler. WTF is AJ's problem? I've never been a fan, but I've seen some of his videos and listened to some of his radio shows - I think he sometimes comes off as mature and reasonable, but, wow - he gets a chance to talk to the general public and totally comes off as a whacko.

Well for what it's worth, I'd advise everyone who reads this to disregard EVERYTHING we've ever been told or read in a book, don't take "truth" for granted, and rest-assured it's only one aspect of the truth. But does that make it the whole truth?

No.

Read the Parable of the Pearl. About the man who wished to buy a pearl of great price, so he sold all he had and bought it.

You'll know when truth is TRUTH and when it isn't. The vibration inside will resonate when you see or hear truth and it won't when you do not hear or see it. That first-impression or "vibe" is usually correct, but be sure to use discernment, because it can be misleading. Take the information the emotion is carrying and use it to discern and increase knowledge, but let the emotion fly free back to where it came. Don't hold the emotion inside, it will fester and grow if it's bad. Truth and Love does not fester, it blooms so make note of this fact.

Use discernment above all and when in doubt, ask or pray to whomever you conceive God or your Creator to be and you'll have an answer if you are SERIOUS about knowing the truth. If not, then friend, you're at a disadvantage and operate on the lower levels. The blind leading the blind, lest they both fall in a ditch.

Remember...

reply to post by redtic


Alex is frustrated about how the shell game is working-out. He wants to rush bringing truth to the masses, for a resolution of things.

But he's rushing it. "They" or aka TPTB are just allowing himself to jump through the hoops as "busy-work" until he is discouraged and gives-up. I'm afraid his spirit would be broken if that happens.

He's being "played" as a pawn, but in reality, he's not a pawn, but the emotions he's holding-in are affecting him and THIS fact allows those who can and able to control him, make him do things a reasonable and discerning man wouldn't.

Either Alex hasn't woken-up or he's not using discernment to the advantage of TRUTH, but to his own means.

Perhaps he should "REBRAND" his LOGOS to not of himself but of He who is the Creator of all things. That's just a common problem for mankind, as an Image of God, to discern and recognize His Ways, using discernment and reason to refine the silver by fire until he can see His Own Face in it, then remove it or be burnt-up. Knowing this fact, and treating others differently, is a shame and in direct opposition to what is being taught. Except no one's listening. Except those wise enough to see.

Have ears and you'll hear, and have eyes and you'll see. How simple and elegant is this?

The answer is rhetorical. Now, isn't this an ironic irony?

reply to post by BlindBastards

I don't need 3 reasons. I'll give you one.
He shouts all the time, even when he's supposedly talking.
No one listens to somebody who shouts at you or doesn't let you get a word in, myself included.
Morgan is a twat, but i've got no time for "Johnny hot air" either.

reply to post by Themanwithnoname


There is a reasoning for this. To shout is to make noise so where those in the distance may hear and notice. Then they can inquire and become involved or decide to not become involved.

Reason and Logic must knit the two things together, to form a perfect tapestry where the "big picture" will be folded-into. If the moth eats the tapestry, everyone knows that nothing is painted over a moth-eaten void.

To not shout would be showing weakness or defeat. Getting egg on your face in the beginning of a debate is not important if you are right, but NOT HAVING the last word or laugh IS very important if THEY are wrong to start-with.

The good and juicy details are usually toward the middle or ending...lol.

With those two? I don't know who won, but I sure know who lost. The viewers...

reply to post by CosmicCitizen


One thing our government hasn't taken in-account is bearing arms in Admiralty or Maritime Law. Keeping and bearing arms under this type of law is military and widely accepted and encouraged.

Also the principle of a militia is a viable preventative or deterrent to tyranny to the people and or the several States, who are considered Sovereign. This is especially evident when the National Guard is "federalized" or "called-in" to action during emergencies or times of threat or disaster. This effectively leaves any state without a standing militia, so is unconstitutional.

Since the United States of America, the UNITED STATES, could be misconstrued as being two entities, altogether, this makes it vitally-important that no legislation or amendment be altered to limit or "infringe" upon exercising keeping and bearing arms. This is a FUNDAMENTAL right, not to be governed.

The Bill of Rights spells this principle out and the AMENDMENT states that the Federal government should not change it. In other words, it's written in stone, and it cannot be altered unless the Constitution is done away with or modified by amendment, but amending the right to keep and bear arms cannot be amended, so it's a moot-point.

Anything else is very dangerous and will be a boon to Federalists....

When the first link of the chain is forged, the first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably. As wisdom and warning, the first time any man’s freedom is trodden-on, we’re all damaged.

You’d think we’ve come so far, torture of heretics, burning of witches, in all ancient history. Then, if we even blink an eye, suddenly it threatens to start all-over again; spreading fear in the name of righteousness.


- Jean Luc Picard

I've always thought Alex put up a very entertaining performance. He always wants to dominate and be right, he'll shout and bully to do that. He never listens to alternatives, he finishes peoples' sentences or shouts them out, he tries to get so much out he trips over himself and the facts. He really did entertain me.

I've always been willing to give him some room and let him do his thing because underneath he had a serious message...... until that is, when he starts to talk of "Jolly Roger" and immitates, poorly, a British accent. He's probably lost a lot of cudos here in the UK, mine has disappeared. He lost it and acted like a child; he played straight into the hands of the programme organisers. Piers Morgan was just the puppet.

RIP Alex, such a shame.

reply to post by Alien44


I've lost respect as well. For the majority of the media. Expecting intelligent people to make logic from a sound-bite or make a conclusion based-on only having one premiss is sheer madness and bedlam.

This make it very difficult for having credibility in the Truth.

Ethics of journalism and factual news is rare these days. The absence of debate and transparency combined with too-much disinformation from many sources needs to be moderated and validated so cognitive dissonance isn't allowed to increase. False ideology is one of the main failings of humanity, or it appears to be so in the USA in some of the people's mindset. Propaganda is another problem.

I see propaganda used maliciously to form a false-ideology directed in ways and means to complete an agenda which avoids debate or due-process that any reasonable peoples would expect to be involved-in. This is a huge disservice to humanity. At the very least. It surely deprives people of their own free-will.

reply to post by TheMindWar


Ha ha not a fan of AJ and his style but he won hands down. PM wanted to focus on irrelevant crap and AJ refused to do it and quoted a lot of good stats. I am sure most of the sheep will think PM won but if AJ would have played his game and answered all his irrelevant questions he would not have gotten the point across that he did. I think his tactic was the best it could be in this situation.

Another question of those who Feel PM won how many of you think we need more gun control?

As for what I'm seeing on CNN at 12:20 CST, they are roasting Alex alive.

I'm afraid this man has been compromised. Or allowed himself to be compromised.

I'm sorry, Alex Jones is playing a sacrificial lamb for the mass media. Now we will see the Anti-Gun Lobby tear the carcass limb from limb whilst bandying the dead parts to and fro through the virtual streets.

It's a sad thing that is happening...

Use discernment:


You do look, my son, in a moved sort, As if you were dismay'd: be cheerful, sir.

Our revels now are ended. These our actors, As I foretold you, were all spirits and Are melted into air, into thin air: And, like the baseless fabric of this vision, The cloud-capp'd towers, the gorgeous palaces, The solemn temples, the great globe itself, Ye all which it inherit, shall dissolve And, like this insubstantial pageant faded, Leave not a rack behind.

We are such stuff As dreams are made on, and our little life Is rounded with a sleep.

Sir, I am vex'd; Bear with my weakness; my, brain is troubled: Be not disturb'd with my infirmity: If you be pleased, retire into my cell And there repose: a turn or two I'll walk, To still my beating mind.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by TheMindWar

 

Ha ha not a fan of AJ and his style but he won hands down. PM wanted to focus on irrelevant crap and AJ refused to do it and quoted a lot of good stats. I am sure most of the sheep will think PM won but if AJ would have played his game and answered all his irrelevant questions he would not have gotten the point across that he did. I think his tactic was the best it could be in this situation.

Another question of those who Feel PM won how many of you think we need more gun control?

AJ won hands down? ##SNIPPED## All AJ has done here is made a complete idiot out of himself AND probably gave the anti-gunners every shred of ammo (pun intended) that they will ever need.
He came across as a complete babbling, incompetent fruit cake.
And no he didn't quote any stats of any merit whatsoever.

For the record, I can't stand PM but AJ now scores higher than him on my tool-ometer after that embarrassment of an interview.
Playground behavior at best, the rantings of a madman is more accurate.
I also don't particularly have a pro/anti stance either as it's not really my concern. I can however comment fully on this topic.
AJ, your a fool and should hang your head in shame.

I found that Piers Morgan tried to play the calm, collected and rational pussy cat.

Jones (at least from what I've seen so so far) was his expected explosive self.

To me Morgan once again came across as false, and playing the po-faced rationalist now is a bit late after calling people "stupid and "dangerous" in a foreign country, and insulting a variety of American guests (even before he latched on to the anti-gun lobby).

So at least Jones was consistent, while Morgan was slightly creepy.
When people who can be equally insulting and explosive hold back like that to make the opposition look irrational, it makes me feel very uncomfortable.
That's a calculated pretense of civility.

The argument by Morgan was also confusing, and it focused on the type of weapons rather than different needs and justifications for weapons in different areas.

I'd like to see him come to SA where gun licenses for law abiding citizens are hard to get, while the criminals are armed to the teeth, and the corrupt police simply "lose" guns every year.
I'd like to see him stay in a high crime area without any fire-arm protection.
I'd also like to see him call one of our ministers, politicians or a member of the Black Gun Owners Association of South Africa "stupid" without massive charges of racism.
en.wikipedia.org...

I only saw the usual thunder from one side, while Pierce sounded a bit like a soft spoken therapist.
That's not his usual schtick, and to me it showed again that he's fake.

reply to post by halfoldman

PM was extremely demure and quiet (especially after recent verbal tirades against gun rights) and that was surely by design to highlight the contrast between him and AJ,,,,making Jones' performance appearing all the more CrAzY.

reply to post by trekwebmaster

I agree with you about making noise to a point.
When Jones is shouting outside a government building through a megaphone, at
some demonstration or protest, then that is appropriate.

But on the other hand, when you are supposed to be in a debate, regardless of whether the
other person is talking complete bollocks, then you should be calm and collected,
producing your facts to counter the other person with an intelligent argument.
This, i think, is where Jones is lacking. I don't think he's the brightest of buttons, and therefore
he can't intelligently put his argument across.

Don't get me wrong, he's putting in good work for our collective cause, but he needs to just
change his tack a little, then our voice might be heard a bit better.
This of course is all just my opinion.

Peace bro, or sis!

Morgan won because he invited Alex Jones to demonstrate to the national audience what kind of lunatics the hardcore gun supporters are and Alex obliged.

Alex Jones won because he was allowed to demonstrate to the national audience how mad some can get and what lengths they are willing to go if the gun ban comes into effect.

Both got what they wanted.

I hereby state that after being a supporter of Alex Jones in the past - I HAVE TOTALLY CHANGED MY MIND THE GUY IS AS MAD AS A MARCH HARE ...... He was nothing but a Teenager in a Tantrum - how on earth can you take someone like that seriously? Any good points that he may have made became totally obsolete due to his complete inability to debate.

First post in a loooong time.

Alex Jones shot himself in the foot here. He gets on CNN, with the opportunity to explain the purpose of the 2nd amendment and its importance, but gets on and shouts and interrupts and jumps from topic to topic nonstop on a level that makes Bill O Reilly look like a gentleman.

He is an embarrassment to people who share his views. I'm just imagining the field day that the mainstream media is going to have with this, playing soundbytes of him looking like crazy, getting their viewers to associate those who have similar views to his with this horrible display of rudeness and apparent insanity.

I honestly can't even tell myself that he was genuine here. To me, it seems more like he went on there and was a part of the whole media gag, and just made himself look like a kook on purpose. Maybe I'm wrong there, but that's beside the point. I used to have a lot of respect for Alex Jones, and at this point I'm honestly a little ashamed to admit that.

Originally posted by TheMindWar
sometimes it takes a Very loud mouth to force people to listen.

No...No it doesn't...Precisely the opposite. Most children learn that when they throw themselves on the floor sceaming and kicking because mommy didn't give them another cookie. Alex Jones apparently has the maturity of a 3 year old. He sounded like a man-baby throwing a complete nonsensical tantrum.