We have failed as parents...

Originally posted by Tardacus

Originally posted by Cynic

Originally posted by chiefsmom
reply to post by Tardacus

 

legally nobody can tell you how to raise your children,so since you have 100% of the benefit of raising your children the way you want to,


What? What state do you live in? Because here in MI they sure as hell CAN tell you how to raise your children.

And heaven forbid, the moment THEY disagree with YOUR methods of parenting, THEY can and DO, interfere by removing the children from the home, and charging YOU, the parent for doing your job as a parent. It seems the cart has been placed in front of the horse.

If you do your job as a parent then the state will never need to be involved, it`s only when it has become obvious that you are failing as a parent that the state need to become involved to ensure the safety of society.

If more parents would put their egos aside and call in professional help when it becomes obvious that they are not able to raise their child to be a productive member of society, then we would have far less of these wild children being unleashed on society at the age of 18.

if your car is having problems with the brakes do you go out and tinker with it for a while and then just throw your hands up and say, well i did the best i could to try and fix it, and then just keep driving it with faulty breaks? or do you take it to a professional mechanic when it becomes obvious that you are not properly equipped to fix the problem?

If you drive that car knowing that it has faulty brakes and you hit someone and kill them you will be held accountable for negligent homicide because you did not do everything possible to have the brakes properly repaired..if you raise a faulty child who becomes a menace to society because you neglected to do everything possible to fix that child shouldn`t you also be held accountable for your negligence?


Unfortunately, I agree with you to a point.
However, who is to say my rights as a parent should be set aside, simply because they feel I am being hard (strict) or sensible enough to try and eep them safe from harming themselves.
Is that negligence on my part or the State's?
Most importantly, who watches the watchers?

Originally posted by antonia
reply to post by Raelsatu

 

It's all "The past was 10x" better nostalgic crap. The past wasn't better. People need to get over it and start living in the present.

My tax rates were relatively better in the past.... guess that was a figment of my imagination. Ill just have the memory of a gold fish and think my rates are the best ever now here in the present.

Originally posted by hellbjorn012


Well Tv is part of it you could let your kid change channels anytime during the 70s and not be to worried about what they saw

Now would you let them?

You missed my point. I don't doubt that much of the media from today can be detrimental to children & adults alike. I also don't doubt that other things affect us such as what we ingest, the air we breath, prescription drugs, etc. A lot of that is up to the parents.

That said I don't appreciate post where you take a healthy example from the past, put it next to a bad example from modern day, & then make a broad generalization. EVERY generation has its bad parenting --- its wars, its atrocities, its psychopaths, degenerates, criminals, gangs, and so on. You forget about things like legal racial discrimination & segregation in the past, lynchings, slavery, the massacre of native Americans & Africans, witch hunts, other genocides, conspiracies, and so on. Every generation has dangers & obstacles in the path of progression.

And that's only taking the U.S into account. On a global scale there's so much more to look at. Thankfully the internet has introduced an entirely new paradigm that doesn't rely on state/corporate sponsored tv for information... I think this is a very good thing.

While I applaud the sentiment of being a proactive and constantly interested parent, I think this may perhaps be a bit too broad. I do believe it is a factor in some cases. Negligent, uninterested, (or abusive) parents do seem to play a role in the development of violent, angry children. But I don't think that alone is the primary causative factor in the development of children and teens who commit acts of great violence. Or, if it ever is, that it is always the cause.

I suspect that it is a combination of numerous - perhaps as yet unquantified - factors, some more strongly influential than others in each individual case. I think there is a natural and urgent impetus felt by parents (and adults in general) in response to such tragedies to quickly pinpoint a cause, and with it, a means of changing the reality so as to prevent it from happening again. For some people this will be guns, for some it will be mental illness, for others it will be poor parenting, for others it will be government interference in parental rights, and we could probably devise a list many pages long if we all put our heads together.

The real question, I believe, should be: what (and where) is the shadowy nexus between these factors that leads one to commit acts of great violence? Guns, mental illness, negligent parenting, public schools, and other factors are fairly homogeneously distributed throughout society. And yet these incidents - while horrific, and arguably more visible or frequent than in the past (I say or visible because some good evidence has been offered in this thread to support the argument that such incidents are not as new as many perceive them to be) - are relatively rare, considering how ubiquitous the assumed ingredients for their occurrence are.

What is the underlying factor, or combination of factors, that leads to these events? That is the question we must answer before we can do anything about it in my opinion. And then we must also ask: how do we go about addressing whatever that is without violating people's rights and privacy, or at least, how do we balance people's rights and privacy against the threat? Any substantive action that has impact and changes things would likely bring about a sea change in one or both.

Pinpointing one prospective cause and affirming the need to change it is commendable in my opinion, but that's easier to do than it is to really work to quantify all of the ingredients, and then take action that could affect all of us in ways not necessarily pleasant in order to counter them. And that's something we can't necessarily just do on an individual basis or as laypeople either, which is perhaps the most frustrating and saddening element of the issue.

Peace.

I go to west point with a veteran I know every few months when he stocks up at the store there

those cadets are something else

they just ooze awesomeness

don't generalize millions of kids on the media saturation of a few idiots

I am no parent but this picture is related to this thread .

reply to post by HomerinNC


I think this old song is very descriptive of our situation

"Mad World" an original by the British band Tears for Fears, written by Roland Orzabal release and first chart hit, reaching #3 on the UK Singles Chart in November 1982. From from Wikipedia's article Mad World

Mad World

Originally posted by shivaX
I am no parent but this picture is related to this thread .

Some parents,not all.
I am the soft one ,my wife is the hard core one as far as discipline is concerned.
But when the time arose,I have left a few handprints on my childrens butts when they needed it.

Leave the child to his/her own devices,ie. video games,tv,and social networking,you are asking for trouble.

That is where a parent is a parent in guiding that child.

It is strange that your using the word "we". There are plenty of good parents that raise peacefully children. The bad parents just get the most attention. The idea of good vs bad parents brings up the question of morals and intelligence. A adult male with a high IQ who mates with a lower IQ woman might result in a child having a high IQ. If the parents divorce leaving child with the lower IQ woman, the mother may have trouble understanding and helping the child overcome obstacles in life. They can sit down and talk and listen to each other however it will be like they speak different languages. There are also disorders that occur in this world. Parents who have no disorders are barely going to understand a child with a disorder.

It seems odd to me that kids throughout history have been raised in everything from mud huts to igloos and yet only now it seems there needs to be certain criteria dictated by the state towards anyone that chooses to engage in the natural ability that is procreation. Interesting indeed that if you don't listen to the quack doctor that demands he turn your child into a walking zombie, as he has with thousands of others, the state can and will take your child from you. Is this freedom or the same as it's always been?

As much as things change things stay the same. For all the technology we have managed to create, we are still, as a species, stuck with the same Roman mentality. Primitive scripture and writing dictating genocide as it's been for thousands of years. The minds of men poisoned by dreams of power and the lust for treasure. It has been and always will be greed that strips the rights from the decent...

It can never happen here.

Progressive thought is finally coming home to roost.

Remove respect.
Remove Integrity.
Remove humility.
Remove tradition.
Remove culture.
Remove morals.
Remove standards.
Remove love.
Remove humanity.

Replace with arrogant self absorption.

Sociopaths used to be rare because they were an anomaly.

Now we manufacture them wholesale.

Originally posted by badgerprints
Progressive thought is finally coming home to roost.

Remove respect.
Remove Integrity.
Remove humility.
Remove tradition.
Remove culture.
Remove morals.
Remove standards.
Remove love.
Remove humanity.

Replace with arrogant self absorption.

Sociopaths used to be rare because they were an anomaly.

Now we manufacture them wholesale.

True.

Could be worst.

The problem is that everyone is too worried about the 'all mighty dollar' to spend time with their families. Got to have the biggest house, the nicest car, the flat screen tv in every room... don't forget to add the gaming systems and sat tv to keep the kids busy. bills..debt...and more debt.... Just to be like the neighbors. Everyone I know spent several hundred dollars on Christmas - money they didnt have, they put it on credit cards. I've never understood the concept of credit card debt... how can a person purchase something when they dont have any money?? Nevermind that not many families sit down to a home cooked meal at night and talk about their day, or go outside and play with their kids, the parents are too tired from working all day to cook and have too many other responsibilites to attend to when they get home. Its easier to get fast food or microwave something. Its easier to let the kids be brainwashed by tv and games.
Im a mother of a 3 yr old and a 4 yr old. My home small and older, but it is paid for, my car is the same. We have one cheapy flat screen tv that don't get turned on very often. I have 2 decent outfits to wear if we go somewhere nice, but other than that, its tshirts and tennis shoes. I read to my children, we play games, we play outside and we take care of the chores together. My husband works 50 hrs a week and when he comes home, he gets a home cooked meal with a side of homeade sweet pickles. I grow a garden and can in the summer to save on food costs. We own 8 chickens and I sell the extra eggs to pay for the price of upkeep on them. I'm also a beekeeper, selling honey to pay for them also. I'm active in my childs pre-k class and if the need arises, I will home school. I'm not lacking in friends and the neighbors don't turn their nose down when I give them eggs, pickles or honey, in fact, they come back for more.
Life is what you make it and you shouldn't make it about money. Keeping up with the 'Jones' is not that important. Its possible to find the happy middle. You just have to ask yourself whats more important.

when society becomes a "me me me me" kind of place, social interaction and friendships are not real...

when society labels everyone a victim of something I.E. bullying, then we end up with grown ups who cannot function properly because they are "broken" and it's never their fault...

when society decides that over energetic kids need to be medicated instead of given more outdoor/physical activities, we end up with messed up adults who need more meds to function properly...

when society decides that it's not ok to win or lose, that "everyone is a winner" we end up with whiny people later in life who think everything is unfair...

when society decides that disciplining children is obscene and almost criminal, we have kids who grow up doing whatever they want, whenever they want, who complain that it's "unfair" when they are told that they can't do what they want all the time and that it's not their fault because "jimmy" bullied them in grade 2 when they end up in court...

I hope this makes sense...

Mass drugging of society - That's what happened. Brought to you of course by the evil empire. You know, the bankers. Its all by design, so quit being so hard on yourself, you didn't have a chance.
It started back in the early fifties, even late 40's with flouride in the water. Then in the 50's mass vaccinations started. Then the yearly physical with all its resultant tests and meds. And of course the supposed "fortified" bread and dairy with their synthetic vitamins which are really drugs. Margarine instead of butter. Margarine is more like plastic than anything else. And eggs are bad for you provable by research done by Kellog himself. Agenda driven science anyone? If you want to know the truth about all this Google Ian Crane. He's got an excellent lecture about Codex alimentarious you should view. Gives a history of who the bad guys are and what their agenda has been and continues to be. Also "Phsychiatry - An industry of Death" gives an in depth look at who the bad guys are. Also the Horowitz lawsuit against the Rockefeller trust. If you take a look at those three things you'll be well versed in why society is going down the tubes. Its by design. And nowadays with all the chemicals its damn near impossible to stay clean. HFCS, Aspartame, chemical fertizers, GMO's etc. Got to be a chemist just to get by.
I was fortunate. My Father was a Chiropractor so us kids never got vaccinated back in the fifties and of course drugs were forbidden in the house. To this day at 64 years old I've never taken a prescription drug or even an over the counter drug, not even an asparin. My diet is clean and I've drank distilled water since Feb 1971 when I returned from overseas.
So lighten up on yourself. You didn't have a chance. Just get busy detoxing all those chemicals out of your body and watch your mind wake up. Kids too. Its a fascinating journey.

reply to post by dawnstar


I beg to differ, I'm in my early twenties, and I still refuse to cuss in front of my mom. True, I do it more at my dad's, and she swears like a sailor, but I've always been hardened to treat elders with respect.

Even if your kid doesn't become a felon or murderer, people are just plain rude now a days in america; lacking any indication of a moral compass. I was in attendance at my little brothers elementary school for honor roll and was surprised at the lack of participation among parents. Me and 4 other people were the only ones who clapped and applauded kids who were not my own. Not every parent gets a chance to support their kids so why not help make a little one feel good about himself?
Besides the fact that most of the parents in attendance were acting like mindless zombies, there was a crowd of other people txting, talking on their phones, and even a mother with 2 kids who completely ignores the fact that her sons game-boy DS was loud AF! Of course im not the type of person to stay quiet and showed my disgust in the parking lot. I told the mother she was very rude and called my buddy on the phone and spoke aloud about the other parents who just sat there not because they wanted too but because they felt obligated.
I used to think everyone was raised with a decent amount of manners. As the days go by i slowly start to lose faith in humanity. Tell me am i wrong and over reacting or are other people starting to realize how #ed up people are becoming?

Originally posted by HomerinNC
Never ONCE did I EVER even THINK about killing anyone or blowing up the school. We just didnt think about doing that back then.

It is not just the parent's that should be blamed, but there are environmental influences that are at play here as well.
Including peer pressure, and some kids that just want to fit in or follow the crowd. Some of these really are outside the parent's control.

reply to post by HomerinNC


Yes, yes you have. It is nearly that simple.

If you can't bring children into the world and instil in them the proper values and morals that are necessary to be a decent human being, feed them healthy food, inspire them to accomplish, then don't farking bother.

Sadly there are too many carrots giving birth to melons in this day and age.

T

I hope that the world continues to awaken.

Signals from spain show that we're capable of rationalizing the distillation process
between spirituality and bottom-lines in the circumstance that the technology
for life-sustaining habitats exist, and the populations to build them as well.

Every time I walk down the street, I don't see as many people on their iPod's anymore, or their iPhone's. There's still a good number.. but it's dwindling.

-Not to say that "smart phones" are a problem, but the information and utilization of a majority of apps on them are not riveting.